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Old 10-25-2005, 08:04 PM   #31
Dragonbear
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Okay, so has this dead horse been beaten yet too?

The problem is that as stated. noone will stop at saying "it's just a few retail
dvd's. We saw not too long ago what happened when someone started
wanting to sell retail Game cd's. I will guarantee one hundred percent that
there is someone who can copy a retail dvd, and then print a really spiffy
label exactly as the one in the case. and Send it as retail.

And either way. People will still push that envelope farther and farther.
so it has to go one way hard or another. And that either means let
everything be free game. Or you eliminate Retail DVD's completely from
the mix.

Now, before this starts to become a pimp slapping contest.
Some of the he said/she said you said might be better off moved
to private messages. Dirty laundry still stinks even when aired
out.
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Old 10-25-2005, 08:05 PM   #32
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Default Retail and trading

I would like to prevent things from getting ugly here.



First off.

Selling- and trading.

Obviously sales go on. You can look at it from many different points of view.
People BUY their cable service for example- the equiptment for dish tv, whatever.
They use a service they rent/own to put together some sets.
Some people put their sets together form vhs tapes they once bought. Video stores that went out of busines. Columbia house sales.

Some people rent, and copy- Some people buy retail, copy it for themselves, sell the retail set, once they had it.

People gain their shows from many many different ways.
Some cost, some dont.
Some cost time, some cost effort, some cost money.


I highly doubt there is a trader here, that by SOME degree of seperation has not benefited or funded a seller in some way.
If Person a sells it, and b- trades it, it saves c buying it by trading.
No one is arguing that fact.

And there are sites that are made FOR selling.
No one is disputing that.

What I, and others are disputing is THIS is not one of those sites.

Why? Legalities.

If you want to sell. I can't stop you.
There is Ebay, I offer, Half.com Paypal, there are websites that harness that ability and are set up for that.
But those websites have a different set up.Paypal offers insurance and protection
Ebay offers professional moderation, hald.com offers insurance you can buy.
I offer, has feedback and a feedback center deisgned to benefit sellers, and buyers both.
THIS SITE doesn't.


Selling is illegal- in some areas.
The laws are grey, and trading can be viewed as acceptable or illegal depending on how it is done.
Don't kid yourselves, if someone wants to make an issue out of it they can.

But since this board, as well as many others has problems with bad traders. People who cheat the sytem on just trading- when you introduce the option of selling your in an entirely different ballgame.

This site isn't designed to hand that.
There is no legal team to look into it. There aren't enough moderators for when someone rips you off.

Now if you TRADE and you get the bad end of the deal. usually, not always your out your time, and some cash. No way around that.

But there is a different prospect when you sell.
Patience run very low wiht money being involved.

Someone just again asked what is the harm in selling.

Okay- I decide to make a copy of Song of the South.
Someone wants to trade me- I get their disc. I send nothing. They are out time, a few bucks.

We get closer to Christmas. Someone wants Song of the South. They really want it, have nothing to trade. No one else has it, I sell it for 50.00$

They are out 50.00-
Now what do they do? Well they can stop payment on the check, they can issue a complaint for the money order, they can file with Paypal IF they used that method.
What if they paid cash?
What if they file the complaint that they were trying to buy an illegal copy of Song of the South.
They are now in violation with Vero, for trying to asertain a copy of a film not legally put to dvd.
They are now guilty.

The fine for that, by the way, the first time is 2500.00.

-
The harm in selling- another aspect, is it puts a price on things. Sounds simple huh.

A dvd for a dvd is a dvd.
A tape for a tape is a tape. Clear cut issues. Clear cut design.

Someone gets a hold of a set, that was 100.00 and they want to sell it, do traders bid?
Is there a set price?
Will someone buy, and then decide they will copy it and resell it?

Ahhh, well now- they are a distributor. They have made a profit on a sale.

Are they filing taxes? Are they charging tax?
Did you keep the receipt for your purchase?

If you sell more than 250.00 of items, from a lemonade stand, or a garage sale in Iowa, you have to file taxes on it.
Who is responsible to keep track of that?
The board?
Sitcoms, TJ? THe ISP carrier?

--
The harm in selling- goes far too deep to even put into words.
I bring up fraud again.
How do you know, your discs ARE retail discs. How do you know they aren't burns, and print shop with label maker?

Are you going to care- when it isn't and who are you going to complain to?
The owner, Me? the other moderators.

Are you going to expect more from a sale than a trade?

I know I do.
When I spend money on something, compared to a trade. It is the difference of new or resale shop.

-I can go on and on, I really can.

A lot of people know people on this site that sell.
Fine. But as far as I can help, they don't sell here.
I have never ever told a user on here, Don't sell on Ebay. Don't sell on Ioffer.

But don't sell on here. We are not set up for selling. We can offer no protection for the oweners of the group, the moderators, or YOU the traders.

There are places to sell, and people can go there.
This is a place to trade, and for the most part- people come here for that.
If you want a place to do BOTH, create it- Or post the website of an area you know of.
But this is a place to trade.


********

Now the retail discs FOR trade is an entirely different issue. And that is being put up for verdict right now.

There is a grey area in the wording I have fully admitted that.
Scott pointing it out-as did TDubel.

And for right now, I have made my opinion clear, but it is ultimately up to the owenr of the site, who is aware of the issue- to ammend the wording, one way or the other.

Retail sets are expensive. And if this was a perfect world, where everyone was honest, and everyone shared, and everyone was upfront, and everyone looked out for each other- this might not even be an issue.
But the situations that have arose already from selling, HAS NOT been pleasant and for the most part, ended badly.

And once again in comes down to legality and ownership responsiblity.

If someone here trades enough to create a set, to sell it- I can't stop that. And some people gte huffy they didn't make money, since they helped create the set so to speak.
Some people don't have anything to trade in the beginning, and buying IS the only way to get going. I don't deny that.

But that is why there are other websites.
You can buy, and collect, and create and sell.

You can only trade here however.

I'm sorry- thats the way it is. For all the reasons I have listed, and more.

Once again, if you want to sell- sell, somewhere else.
If you want to buy, buy, somewhere else.

if you have bought or sold, and have something FROM that transaction to share in a TRADE, by all means bring it here.

You don't have to stay a member here if you disagree.
But you do have to cooperate if you stay.
And these are the rules I uphold, until someone tells me otherwise.

I don't want people turning against each other over this issue. I dont like the tension that is being created from this. And I am sorry so many find this topic so hard to agree with.

I would appreciate if someone can try to see my point, or look at the future prospects of the possibilities of complications from this issue- before attacking anyone else over this.

I have received 17 emails today, PERSONALLY attacking me over this. Literally, I mean, simple out right name calling-

So for the record I am available to dicuss this, but please try to show me a little respect.
And I'll try not to take certain things personally, even though for the most part they were written specifically for that aspect.
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Old 10-25-2005, 08:17 PM   #33
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Default SIMPLE RULES

The rules are clearly posted

it doesnt matter if u agree with them or not

rules are rules

if you do not like them, trade someplace else, simple as that

i think everyone here is making a mountain out of a molehill

and it would be best to just let it go

lifes too short and this takes precious trading time away
ha ha

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Old 10-25-2005, 09:55 PM   #34
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harvey, please come back to realiy

YOU TRADE WITH SELLERS ALL THE TIME

why cant you admit it

its only wrong when i sell

but its ok when you get things from sellers????

thats not a benifit to you that they add to your holding??


thats my original statement

people benifit all the time from sellers

it builds your collection--IT BUILDS YOUR COLLECTION


but somehow every time theres a problem on this board

you post right behind me and run off about sellers being the cause of every problem ever

and then you --CLAIM-- you never have benifited from sellers

harvey, it may sound nice to the readers

BUT ITS ANOTHER FABRICATION ON YOUR PART

i know lots of sellers you get trade items from

lots


now how will you spin that???

isnt it difficult for you to try and tell a story, when your going up against the facts , and still you try and spin and squirm out of it

come on harvey

tell us why your still trying to cling to a fanatsy belief that you havent ever benifited from sellers

i know i would love to hear it


and as far as people doing reauthor work, i have about 10 people that work on things for me, so whats that prove??

i have offers every couple days from people who want to do soem work, in exchange for soem items to help themselves out

i dont do any reauthor work, i make no secret of it, I DONT KNOW HOW TO, i admit that all the time, its no secret



and as far as this getting nasty

i never called any one any names, just offered the exact truth, and called out a person who constantly takes pot shots at me,

to answer and explain why he told a fabrication and tried to discredit me



the fact is he deals with sellers all the time and it helps his collection out greatly

its not one inch of his concern that i sell, THATS NOT AGAINST THE RULES HERE, SINCE I DONT DO IT HERE, i dont force him to buy from me, and there is no question that most of the people that are active on this board--are also sellers, and it wasnt me who was trying to move some retails in trade

this had nothing to do with selling, yet i get another lame pot shot taken at me again


if i did something to you, come on out and tell me and ill make it better than correct for you, if you dont wanna email me, contact savage and tell her, she will take care getting the problem to me

this is so lame just takeing pot shots at me
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Old 10-25-2005, 10:41 PM   #35
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Why can't the post stay on topic. It happens all the time. One person for whatever reason gets in a post and changes the original topic totally. Why? You want to talk about selling, make your own topic. Why jump into someone elses thread and talk about selling. The original poster did not want to sell his original DVD retail sets at all, he wanted to trade them, right or wrong thats what he did, trade them, to me.

Loren, all you need to do is make a comment, any comment and certain people like to try and tell something that they think no one here knows. It makes them look foolish IMO.

Loren is a seller! My bad, I blew your cover. Let me do as I say and make my own topic about that (joking)
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Old 10-25-2005, 10:45 PM   #36
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Is it possible for someone to replicate the casing/booklets ect. on a retail set? That would be almost impossible. I don't thnink anyone would want just the discs.
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Old 10-25-2005, 11:15 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottdvd
Why can't the post stay on topic. It happens all the time. One person for whatever reason gets in a post and changes the original topic totally. Why? You want to talk about selling, make your own topic. Why jump into someone elses thread and talk about selling. The original poster did not want to sell his original DVD retail sets at all, he wanted to trade them, right or wrong thats what he did, trade them, to me.

Loren, all you need to do is make a comment, any comment and certain people like to try and tell something that they think no one here knows. It makes them look foolish IMO.

Loren is a seller! My bad, I blew your cover. Let me do as I say and make my own topic about that (joking)
darn, and i used my real name in my sale ads to try amd throw people off my trail

darn it, you found me out

funny how i have 4 emails tonight that say the same thing

why does this one person, insist on posting after me and blame sellers for all evil

just me it seems

other sellers are ok


remember a few days ago

one of our members had a liitle problem with a person and the person posted them as a poor seller

well the title of the thread was

__________ bad seller

the buyer and this seller made a deal that went astray a bit

so if you look at that thread right now, you will see harvey posts that he and this person had 3 trades and all was just nice

interesting

harvey trashes sellers, and specificaly me

and claims that he never benifited from a seller ever

but yet, he made three trades with this seller by his own post

so which one is a fabrication

well i know he traded at least three or probably even more times with this seller

so

of course this should prove 100% that he isnt telling the correct story

and now hes really mad at me for bringing it out in the open


hes not the first person on here to say one thing and do another

and i really dont care what he does

except i would prefer that he doesnt take unwarranted shots at me

if you have a gripe with me

spell it out

takeing cheap shots is just so not cool


so scott the next time someone discusses why their burner doesnt work , please beat harvey to the punch and announce its because of sellers and blame me
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Old 10-25-2005, 11:17 PM   #38
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I think this issue has gone so far off topic, its hard to make heads or tails anymore.

Bouty- some people would trade for retail discs-regardless of artwork- trust me. But i see your point as well.



You did not offer to sell, please no one confuse that-Bouty offered to trade original discs- and that has opened pandoras box.

What is has come down to is- there is a foggy line on HOW rule numbr 3 is written.

I am working with the owner, to AMMEND that rule so that it is clear to all.

Loren- Your right you can sell, just not here. I respect that. Just as you have respected that.

But it sounds like there are larger issues going on that just this issue- and maybe this topic, simply brought other things to a head.

I can say honestly, I have never been tipped off, or been witness to Loren, selling on this site- although most are aware he sells on another site.

Another site being the opporative word.

As far as where harvey, or anyone else get's their items from- again its a moot issue. It's their business.

My obligation is to edit posts offering to sell, and ban users of selling.

My obligation is to understand the rules and to ammend it is so the community understands it and upholds it.
Todays topic represented a flaw in that, and it is being remedied.

Maybe everyone needs to take a step back for tonight, and put it into perspective.

No matter the outcome, someone is going to be unhappy. Thats the curse of most decisions.
And it might be an example of people just agreeing to disagree.

I thank everyone who has taken the time to give the opinion, and hope that we can take a deep breath and put things in perspective.
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Old 10-26-2005, 09:22 AM   #39
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Darn, I wish business was so good so I can hire a 10-man staff too.

This authoring part really sucks ... it cuts down on your sales.
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Old 10-26-2005, 10:27 AM   #40
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I would like to remind everyone that this is a HOBBY, not a business site (what you do on your own time is your business and I have no problem with it.).

I would also like to remind everyone, that while we have all made sets ( I made most of the Redd Foxx related dvd sets that are traded around, MSquad that I am sure will find its way soon, etc.), that is what they are trading sets, they are NOT NEW RELEASES, etc etc etc. Again, most of the stuff traded is in good copyright and owned by the studios, just not released. For me the point of trading is to enjoy shows that you can otherwise not get, that is the fun part.

As for the "subliminal" selling posts, to each his own. However, again this is a trading board, so extras for trade, and waiting a few weeks, who cares? That is what trading is about, again, its a hobby, we all don't sit by our recorders and burners 24/7. Extras for trade are great b/c you can try out a series before you waste time acquiring something you will never watch.

I am sure some will be offended, but I think what I stated is a fairly accurate viewpoint for most traders, this is supposed to be FUN, let's try and keep it that way.

Tom D.
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Old 10-26-2005, 10:54 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2k3Joker
Darn, I wish business was so good so I can hire a 10-man staff too.

This authoring part really sucks ... it cuts down on your sales.

is that why you will not trade the batman set

AND WILL ONLY SELL IT FOR $ 200


it seems we have another seller who is not interested in trades

and uses this board to promote his sales

by posting he has a 29 disc batman uncut set

and then when people want to trade for it, its suddenly not for trade

but somehow its for sale for $ 200

and this same person seems to also like to run his mouth about me, look above for two more examples of his cheap shots

and yet i trade every day of the week

and everythings for trade thats on my list

and somehow im the bad guy


this is the same seller who trashed me out for

UNDERCUTTING his gouge price on leave it to beaver


lets see

i trade anything that i have

i sell at a far lower rate than this person

and yet he takes cheap shots at me all the time


hey joker, like the man said this is a trade site

how come you will not trade the batman and only sell at $ 200

i sure hope no one buys the set on ioffer and starts to trade it

or did you give the buyer a list of people that he couldnt trade it to ???


previous to takeing cheap shots at me, perhaps you could look at a little of your motives and actions


also no one said they had a 10 person staff, i said i had about 10 people that author things , and its a good way for them to add to their collection

seeing as how guys like you will not trade with them and only want $200 for items they claim they will trade, but will not
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Old 10-26-2005, 11:02 AM   #42
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OKay this is getting into some serious name calling, finger pointing.


The ISSUE that started this was people reported to me, that Bouty Bouty was traidng retail discs.

This opened up the fact that rule number three states you can't trade RIPS, not trade retail discs.
This is being disputed, ammended, and worded so that there is no confusion for new traders, or even some of us older traders.

We have discussed that.
Its being ammended and everyone will be updated shortly to the exact VERGABE of the issue.

Selling has come up and we have heard all sides. And it has gotten to the point many people are inflamed. Many people are taking shots at each other-
And as TDubel said, this is supposed to be fun. Supposed to be a hobby.

Now this thread is an exact example of why selling causes problems. Because very few are guiltless although they hold opinions of it.

And though no problem is the "fault" of a trader or a seller, the fact is the opinions that are being shared at this point aren't being shared intelligently anymore.

I don't want to have to lock another thread. I don't want people taking sides, I don't want people taking hits on their reputation, nor do I want people having to defend themselves.

We all have gained from selling, or buying, and trading at SOME point or another, directly or otherwise - at least 99 percent of us- so let's stop pointing fingers.

Those who are hipicrits, already know it.
Some that are defending don't need to.

My grandma always said
Tell the truth once, your friends won't need it and your enemies wont believe it.
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Old 10-26-2005, 11:14 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loren
or did you give the buyer a list of people that he couldnt trade it to ???
My list contains one NAME and if you have a connection that one NAME, YES you are black listed. .... YOU ARE PUBLIC ENEMY #1


Quote:
a huge majority of the regular posters on this board sell

and a lot of those same people do it hidden behind clever user names and under cover

but by garsh they do sell

and wether its daily, weekly or monthly, they do sell

and wether its out in the open, or hidden under user names and fake emails, or they lurk and email and offer things at $ 122 an hour--which i can prove i might add---


You had to bring me back into this, now you will have to deal with me again. I will be the thorn in your side forever.

Every time you take a jab at me, I'll be right there with a counter.

And stop playing this Mr Nice Guy on the board... you might have some of these people fooled but the other half are not buying your act.


Joker
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Old 10-26-2005, 11:19 AM   #44
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Truly amazing. Say a word that differs with Loren and it's a cheap, pot shot but it's perfectly acceptable for Loren to open his toilet mouth.

When You state I deal with dealers, let me set the record straight before you tell me you also walk on water.

Here his who I have dealt with on this site.

Tom Tubel 1 trade
Savage Amusement 1 trade
Michael Randazzo 1 trade
Lamont 3 trades
Agent 13 Numerous trades

One year ago half trade with Loren

My other contacts have nothing to do with this site or any site and do not sell on Ioffer or Ebay.

I'm sure I get items form someone who got it from someone else, who got it from a dealer, So?

I have nothing against selling but feel mixing it with trading soils the hobby and causes grief in a trading group.

But still it's a great feeling to be able to converse with someone who is so close to GOD.

Harvey
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Old 10-26-2005, 11:24 AM   #45
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Default retail attacking

It is clear that there is anger and hostility between some users here.
Some definate disapproval and perhaps resentment.
But this isn't settling anything at all.


I would suggest writing each other, and trying to has out the differences privately.
The only thing most gain from a public act like this is resentment, a bad reputation, or peoples judgements and others taking sides.

You two disagree , and feel the need to point each others "false statements, and feelings of hipocracy"
Its obvious, its been stated- but restating it, more agressively isn't going to solve anything.

This thread was started to discuss retail selling, retail trading and that has been discussed.
i, the other moderators and the owner are ware of some issues that need to be dealt with.

The rest of this is erupting into a lot name calling and finger pointing which is 1-A distraction from the actual issue. and 2- not solving anything.

I wont tell you two the motherly, go and make up bit. This is a big board- you can co-exhist without liking each other.
But I will give the other motherly advice.
If you have nothing nice to say, it's best not to say anything.

This thread is done. I HATE closing threads, for the record. Because some is always left unable to say something back. But sometimes people abuse having to have the last word as well.
So I apologie to anyone left disgruntled about this thread.


There will be a community update on the rule of retail discs/trading- and any furthor discussions about it, are welcomed to me or any other moderator-

If anyone has any other complaints, or questions- as the saying goes
"My lap top is always open"

But I would like for everyone to try to take a deep breath, settle down and stop antagonizing each other.
At least for today.

Last edited by savageamusement; 10-26-2005 at 11:46 AM.
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