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Old 05-26-2008, 03:10 PM   #421
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Hi, guys. Darlie's testimony is in Vol. 44, I think. I just read it again.

Don't you think it's a little strange that Darin would remember so specifically how that blood got on the comforter upstairs? And if it were a two-year-old stain that had been laundered, why would detectives be interested in it anyway?

I've wondered - if Darlie - or Darin, either, for that matter, planted that sock prior to the boys' being stabbed, where did that nickel-sized drop of blood come from?

The asking price on the house was right around $100,000 - it had been on the market for some time, and the owners had reduced the price. You know, Darin had two mortgages on it that totalled (sp?) around $130,000, and that was about ten years earlier. Amazing how a murder can affect the value of your home, huh? Sorry, that was probably in very bad taste.

Anyway, you can bet that the next time I go through Dallas, I'm going by there to check on that garage situation.
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Old 05-26-2008, 08:29 PM   #422
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Hi srf, Thanks for providing the volume for Darlie's testimony and the price of the house. Did someone eventually buy the house? I don't know how interested the detectives were in the blood on the comforter, couldn't have been too much since we didn't hear much about it. I have no idea why they even asked him about it on the stand. I personally believe Darlie stabbed both boys and then planted the sock, came back and washed off the knife, cut her own neck, then had to go back and stab Damon again since he was still alive and pulling himself toward the door. This theory matches all the evidence, and also explains how Darlie would have had the time to plant the sock with Damon only able to survive with his wounds for only a certain amount of time.

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Old 05-26-2008, 11:44 PM   #423
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I guess someone did buy the house because it isn't on the market right now. Your theory makes sense, but OMG, how horrific! This is my problem with this. How can a woman who has behaved normally throughout her entire life suddenly become a psychopath? I'm not buying the post-partum depression defense simply because Darlie has - from the very beginning - appeared to be all too sane. Andrea Yates, for example - now that's crazy!
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Old 05-27-2008, 12:26 AM   #424
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What's 'sane'? To Darlie the silly string party is 'sane' and we're all screwed up to view it any differently. I don't think Darlie is normal at all. I just saw parts of a show last night (I missed a lot of it because I was doing other things)...but it was interviews from prison with the BTK killer. For many years (while he was committing the murders) this man worked solidly, was very active in his church, married with kids, longtime friends, etc.........he conned everyone for years. Even in his prison interview he was saying how he read the Bible in prison, and has always thought it was true and a 'good way to view and live life' or something like that. Evil can be a very devious thing....it doesn't always show it's true colors, it can be disguised and hidden even among the most charming of hosts. I just looked at Darlie's transcripts again.........there are so many telltale signs just in her testimony. Holy cow! Just really read what she says in those transcripts, from insisting she said "I was frightening" instead of "I was fighting" in the 911 tape (and keeps repeating 'you can hear it), to all the people she wrote from prison naming all different people as the person she knew really did it, to the poor neighbor she tried to finger as the murderer way down the street she said watched her in the hottub from his balcony when in fact his balcony couldn't even see her house. Lie after lie, just one after another - even when she's caught in them.....it's almost head-spinning. She's completely false. Yes I absolutely believe she's a psycopath, albeit a slick and charming one.
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Old 05-27-2008, 12:24 PM   #425
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Even though the Silly String tape is bizarre, I don't believe it's an indication - necessarily - of sociopathic tendencies. I hesitate to judge any person's guilt or innocence in the immediate aftermath of something like this since such a traumatic experience could cause anyone to behave wierdly. Neither do I think the examples you list - excluding the "frightening" thing which is ludricrous - can be categorically determined to be lies. Such statements could be viewed as desperate attempts to explain the inexplicable.

This is why I keep digging and digging and digging. One day I'm sure she's guilty. The next, I'm wondering - if we were - hypothetically - to discover that she is indeed innocent, could we look back at these examples of her behavior and reconcile them to the new facts? I think I could.

John Grisham wrote a book (his only non-fiction book) titled The Innocent Man about a case in Ada, OK, where a man named Ron Williamson was accused, tried, and convicted to death for the murder/rape of young woman. After being on death row for more than 20 years and having had his execution scheduled to take place on at least one occasion that I recall, this man was found to be completely innocent. The facts of the murder seemed to yield an airtight case for the prosecution (much more so than the Routier case IMO), but ultimately, the man was exonerated.

I've seen the BTK interviews from prison, and I agree that that guy is the personification of evil. And your point about Darlie's being slick and charming is well taken also. In fact, charm is one determinate attribute of the sociopath, as is evident in the personalities of people like Ted Bundy and even John Wayne Gacy (although he seemed so creepy, I can't imagine anyone being charmed by him EVER).

I don't know. I just think that when the death penalty is involved, the State should have to meet a higher standard to prove someone guilty. In the Routier case, I see the possibility of guilt by default: if she didn't do it, who did? But that should never come into question in a court of law. The State must prove SHE DID IT, not just she must have because no one else has turned up. I'm not saying she should be released. I'm not even saying she shouldn't have been convicted. But I think in a case like this where there are obvious questions - such as the ones we're discussing right here - life w/out the possibility of parole should be the limit. Of course, if I remember correctly, that wasn't an option at the time Darlie was tried.
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Old 05-27-2008, 12:26 PM   #426
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http://lubbockonline.com/news/120696/routier.htm
Here's an article where Darlie is discussing the case (pre-trial)...and says "I want people to know I did not murder my children. I know what happened in that house that night.'' Her selective amnesia apparently goes in and out. She was writing different people from jail telling almost each one a different person she "knew who did it". She was blown away on the stand when they brought all her letters to court and asked about each of them. She stated she thought it was illegal to read her mail...and when she was told it wasn't she did not know what to say and just basically proceeded to bury herself in her own lies. Why would an innocent person point the finger at so many different innocent people? Its as if she was trying to keep all her bases covered in case one person had an alibi or could be ruled out for any reason, she could just move on to another one. Darlie is a MASTER manipulater.
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Old 05-27-2008, 12:39 PM   #427
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I think the blood, fiber, and other evidence at the scene is more than enough to prove she did it. I was a little surprised to discover the majority of women on death row were convicted of killing their spouse or their children. Probably most of them would not otherwise be considered a danger to society...but perhaps society just is showing they do not tolerate killing your children. To kill your children is so inheritently evil in itself that perhaps some feel that is enough reason to deem to person who would do it not fit to ever be in society again and worthy of death. I don't know...but there are 11 women on death row for killing their own children. It will probably be a long time before Darlie is executed....from the time Jeffrey MacDonald got perimission for new DNA testing I want to say it was like 8 years (maybe more?) before it was completed. You can bet 'camp darlie' will use every means available to draw out her execution date as long as possible.
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Old 05-27-2008, 12:57 PM   #428
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I just wanted to add... I disagree with her statement of "I was frightening" simply being trying to explain the inexplicable , as you state. It was in response to the prosecutor making the points, logically, that if she had been fighting with the intruder she would have been awake and remembered more and possibly also been able to fight for her children. She has consistently tried to change her story to match what is 'reasonable' to believe and to try to match the evidence. Her lies aren't haphazard, they are consistent with that goal at all times. If it were me, I wouldn't try to change the truth to fit anything because what could be stronger than the truth? I would have to believe it would stand in the end. As Darlie's 'truth ' gets blown away by facts she simply creates new stories, and I do think that is a sign of a sociopath. Darlie's 'truth' about what happened has been, and is still, all over the map....constantly changing.
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Old 05-27-2008, 01:57 PM   #429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mommy2sets
http://lubbockonline.com/news/120696/routier.htm
Here's an article where Darlie is discussing the case (pre-trial)...and says "I want people to know I did not murder my children. I know what happened in that house that night.'' Her selective amnesia apparently goes in and out. She was writing different people from jail telling almost each one a different person she "knew who did it". She was blown away on the stand when they brought all her letters to court and asked about each of them. She stated she thought it was illegal to read her mail...and when she was told it wasn't she did not know what to say and just basically proceeded to bury herself in her own lies. Why would an innocent person point the finger at so many different innocent people? Its as if she was trying to keep all her bases covered in case one person had an alibi or could be ruled out for any reason, she could just move on to another one. Darlie is a MASTER manipulater.
Very well said. I couldn't agree more. I have seen many many many documentary criminal cases, read many books on true crimes and it seems those folks who are 100 PERCENT INNOCENT of a crime but are in prison for a crime they never committed, almost never point the finger at any other people who MIGHT BE THE ACTUAL KILLER(S).
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Old 05-27-2008, 11:16 PM   #430
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I agree that her testimony about saying "frightening" instead of "fighting" was a ridiculously obvious lie. I can also see how her ever-changing story is the most consistent thing about this case.

Tell me, though, Mommy2sets, what keeps you interested in Darlie? You seem absolutely certain of her guilt, and your arguments are very persuasive, but at some point, you must have had doubts. Was there one thing that ultimately convinced you of her guilt, or is the totality of testimony, evidence, post-trial media coverage, etc.?
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Old 05-28-2008, 08:15 AM   #431
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Hi srf, I didn't believe she was guilty at first, or I should say I didn't want to believe she was guilty. That's what got me delving into the case. No, the media could not convince me of someone's guilt or innocence. The constant lying was of course a big red flag but I'd have to say it is the evidence mostly that convinced me, and also the totality of everything. I've also known a psycopath in real life, unfortunately, so perhaps my psycopath antennae is a bit more honed than some.
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Old 05-28-2008, 04:39 PM   #432
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Hi srf, I didn't believe she was guilty at first, or I should say I didn't want to believe she was guilty. That's what got me delving into the case. No, the media could not convince me of someone's guilt or innocence. The constant lying was of course a big red flag but I'd have to say it is the evidence mostly that convinced me, and also the totality of everything. I've also known a psycopath in real life, unfortunately, so perhaps my psycopath antennae is a bit more honed than some.
I hear ya. I was on the side of innocence regarding Darlie. After reading more and hearing more of the case, I swayed til I believed she was not the innocent person she thinks she can convince others of.

Having dealt with two major manipulators myself, it is soooooo easy to get people to believe your lies and exaggerations. People who are sociopaths, manipulators, etc. learn to lie with such ease. Remember how know one wanted to believe Ted Bundy could possibly be a killer? Ann Rule, one of the country's most well-known crime writers knew Ted Bundy. And she too was blind-sided by him. Hundreds were. No one wants to believe that "normal" people can be killers. How many predators out there look normal? Too many. It is not the monster we all were led to believe as children. The normal person is sometimes the most dangerous.
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Old 05-28-2008, 05:25 PM   #433
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Hello! Okay I have some questions or more I guess asking you guys very well read up on the case a few things. I do think that Darlie could have done it albeit I don't really see how the rage comes in as these were clearly acts of pure rage. Thats the only thing thats tough to swallow. I guess I'm curious why you guys are so convinced that Darlie did it and not Darrin? I think Darrin has more motive than Darlie actually. First off he admits to almost having his house burglarized to get some money from insurance. That says how desperate he was in the months before the crime for money. I believe I read that Darlie asked for a divorce the night of the murders (correct me if I'm wrong on that). If that is the case Darrin could have been fearful he would be losing his family, his big house and everything if Darlie were to get a divorce. If he had came down into the dark living room and intended to kill the boys and Darlie in his mind he wouldn't have had to go through a messy divorce and would have loads of insurance money as I do know Darlie's life was heavily insured. So why do you guys think that Darlie is more like to have done it than Darrin? Just curious.
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Old 05-28-2008, 07:14 PM   #434
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Ireneparalegal - good analogy with Ted bundy. He was a 'humanitarian' that volunteered at a suicde hotline phone call center! He had everyone fooled. Yes they can be very at ease and become so confident in their ability to manipulate people they can be extremely convincing. I do think they are the most dangerous.

CD - Among many other reasons the biggest is only Darlie's footprints were the ones all over the kitchen near the murder weapon, the sink where luminol showed blood had been cleaned up, and the butcher block in the kitchen- not Darin's. About the insurance fraud and 'fight'- at the time that was written Darin had been desperately trying to get Darlie off death row for many years with no luck. Darin's affidavit many years after the fact with those statements should be viewed in that light. What he says in it directly contradicts everything he and Darlie said before, and could be viewed as just another desperate attempt to get her off death row. If it is true it makes everything he said before for years a lie so it's not like he's very credible. It was meant to raise suspicion which it has done obviously with some (though not with the courts). But we don't know if it's even true, or which parts are true...and it certainly doesn't change the evidence. About the rage - statistically kilings that are overkill like this one are usually done by someone close to the victim. An intruder would most likely not have had that much rage toward sleeping children to kill them in that way.
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Old 05-28-2008, 07:19 PM   #435
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CD- and if Darin was trying to kill Darlie for insurance money why would he overkill the boys and barely cut Darlie's neck and then run out through the garage leaving her alive after she stood up and saw him? Why wouldn't he have gone for her first?
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