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Old 05-31-2011, 09:15 AM   #121
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Just wondering, but which high school did Kurt McFall attend? I've lived in SF almost all my life and I'm curious to know.
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Old 06-01-2011, 02:57 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by empresssharyl
Also, in the 70's, there was a film called 'Faces of Death'. In this film, there is one scene where the filmmaker shows a cult, in SF, who is engaging in necrophilia, and the actual eating of parts of a person that they have killed. The filmmaker states it is a body that was 'stolen', but it's clear from the film that it is a freshly killed person.
"Faces of Death" was a fake movie. While I do believe there were and still are active cults to this day, I do not believe Kurt was any type of human sacrifice. "Caradoc" made a good point in his UM interview, "If I wanted to murder somebody, the last person I would murder would be somebody who was staying at my house and whose father knew that he was staying in my house."

As to the beer bottles scattered around Kurt's car, this is what is very puzzling about the case. Could it have been some type of accidental death, but whoever was involved wanted to cover it up so they set the car up and staged the scene? Who else would want to steal his suit of armor other than other people interested in the medieval period? Or another possibility is someone (possibly a group of drunk teenagers) stumbled upon the car and decided to rifle through the the trunk and found the armor and decided to steal it. This would explain the beer bottles being found in and around the car. And Kurt's body was found directly below where his car was parked, so it seems likely that he drove it there. Had his body been found anywhere else, then obviously somebody else was involved and had driven his car to the golf course. Maybe this golf course was a popular place for teens to hang out because of the scenic view of the ocean?
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Old 06-01-2011, 03:13 PM   #123
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Although the segment mentioned beer bottles scattered around the car, it didn't specify how. The car could have pulled into an area with a lot of trash; it's common to find beer bottles in public areas like beaches. I don't think there's anything suspicious about them in this case.
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Old 06-01-2011, 03:29 PM   #124
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Quote:
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Although the segment mentioned beer bottles scattered around the car, it didn't specify how. The car could have pulled into an area with a lot of trash; it's common to find beer bottles in public areas like beaches. I don't think there's anything suspicious about them in this case.
They were found in his car as well as around it.
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Old 06-01-2011, 06:46 PM   #125
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Was alcohol found in his system?
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Old 06-01-2011, 08:54 PM   #126
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Was alcohol found in his system?
No according to his father the autopsy did not find alcohol in Kurt's system. That is essentially what makes this case so mysterious. If Kurt was drunk it would explain where his car was found, the beer bottles in and around the car and would also explain him making the decision to go rock climbing in the middle of the night as well as facilitating him falling off the cliffs.

But Kurt didn't have alcohol in his system so you can rule any theory regarding impaired judgment due to intoxication out.
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Old 06-01-2011, 09:05 PM   #127
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No alcohol was found in his system, according to his father. Do we have a more reliable source? Is this supposition in the police report?
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Old 06-01-2011, 11:30 PM   #128
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No alcohol was found in his system, according to his father. Do we have a more reliable source? Is this supposition in the police report?
Well his father cited the autopsy in informing the audience that there wasn't any alcohol in Kurt's system so unless Kurt's father is lying then there wasn't any alcohol in his system.

It's difficult to find any reliable sources for this case outside of the word of Kurt's family and friends because the San Francisco PD refused to participate in the segment and to my knowledge have never commented publicly on their findings in this case.

For that reason alone, I would love to see the coroner's report for this case so we can determine the exact nature of the abrasions found on Kurt's body as well as the possibility of any other injuries that could have been caused from a fall from the cliffs.
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Old 06-04-2011, 08:02 PM   #129
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Kurt went to Clayton Valley High School in Concord, CA. It's in a middle-class area, a good neighborhood.
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Old 06-04-2011, 08:04 PM   #130
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Quote:
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Well his father cited the autopsy in informing the audience that there wasn't any alcohol in Kurt's system so unless Kurt's father is lying then there wasn't any alcohol in his system.

It's difficult to find any reliable sources for this case outside of the word of Kurt's family and friends because the San Francisco PD refused to participate in the segment and to my knowledge have never commented publicly on their findings in this case.

For that reason alone, I would love to see the coroner's report for this case so we can determine the exact nature of the abrasions found on Kurt's body as well as the possibility of any other injuries that could have been caused from a fall from the cliffs.
I believe what Tom said about no alcohol or drugs being in Kurt's system. As I said, I saw him in several situations outside of school where he could have easily used, and he never did.
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Old 06-04-2011, 08:09 PM   #131
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If you accept the poster's information, one is almost forced to conclude the police deliberately did not investigate this crime for motivations unknown, as one is not stabbed multiple times "accidentally"

I am skeptical, but certainly admit I lack the familiarity with the actual case file to dispute the claims at issue.
I don't know if SFPD deliberately didn't investigate as they should, or if they simply didn't have the manpower and funds to do a proper investigation. As I said, at the time, there was only about a 36% arrest rate for murder, at best. SFPD, like Oakland PD, has problems with solving crimes, due to the sheer number of people vs. police, and a constant budget crisis. They may have done the best they could, with what they had. I work with troubled youth/gangsters, and it's an 'open secret' that if you want to get away with murder, you do it in Oakland and San Francisco. This has also been confirmed by police that I know and have worked with in both cities.
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Old 06-04-2011, 08:11 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCars1986
"Faces of Death" was a fake movie. While I do believe there were and still are active cults to this day, I do not believe Kurt was any type of human sacrifice. "Caradoc" made a good point in his UM interview, "If I wanted to murder somebody, the last person I would murder would be somebody who was staying at my house and whose father knew that he was staying in my house."

As to the beer bottles scattered around Kurt's car, this is what is very puzzling about the case. Could it have been some type of accidental death, but whoever was involved wanted to cover it up so they set the car up and staged the scene? Who else would want to steal his suit of armor other than other people interested in the medieval period? Or another possibility is someone (possibly a group of drunk teenagers) stumbled upon the car and decided to rifle through the the trunk and found the armor and decided to steal it. This would explain the beer bottles being found in and around the car. And Kurt's body was found directly below where his car was parked, so it seems likely that he drove it there. Had his body been found anywhere else, then obviously somebody else was involved and had driven his car to the golf course. Maybe this golf course was a popular place for teens to hang out because of the scenic view of the ocean?
As far as I know, Land's End is not a popular place for teens to hang out and party at. They usually prefer the Haight district for this.
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Old 06-04-2011, 08:12 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCars1986
"Faces of Death" was a fake movie. While I do believe there were and still are active cults to this day, I do not believe Kurt was any type of human sacrifice. "Caradoc" made a good point in his UM interview, "If I wanted to murder somebody, the last person I would murder would be somebody who was staying at my house and whose father knew that he was staying in my house."

As to the beer bottles scattered around Kurt's car, this is what is very puzzling about the case. Could it have been some type of accidental death, but whoever was involved wanted to cover it up so they set the car up and staged the scene? Who else would want to steal his suit of armor other than other people interested in the medieval period? Or another possibility is someone (possibly a group of drunk teenagers) stumbled upon the car and decided to rifle through the the trunk and found the armor and decided to steal it. This would explain the beer bottles being found in and around the car. And Kurt's body was found directly below where his car was parked, so it seems likely that he drove it there. Had his body been found anywhere else, then obviously somebody else was involved and had driven his car to the golf course. Maybe this golf course was a popular place for teens to hang out because of the scenic view of the ocean?
Remember, there were more than one 'Faces of Death' movie. The first one was real. The others were staged.
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Old 06-04-2011, 08:14 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCars1986
"Faces of Death" was a fake movie. While I do believe there were and still are active cults to this day, I do not believe Kurt was any type of human sacrifice. "Caradoc" made a good point in his UM interview, "If I wanted to murder somebody, the last person I would murder would be somebody who was staying at my house and whose father knew that he was staying in my house."

As to the beer bottles scattered around Kurt's car, this is what is very puzzling about the case. Could it have been some type of accidental death, but whoever was involved wanted to cover it up so they set the car up and staged the scene? Who else would want to steal his suit of armor other than other people interested in the medieval period? Or another possibility is someone (possibly a group of drunk teenagers) stumbled upon the car and decided to rifle through the the trunk and found the armor and decided to steal it. This would explain the beer bottles being found in and around the car. And Kurt's body was found directly below where his car was parked, so it seems likely that he drove it there. Had his body been found anywhere else, then obviously somebody else was involved and had driven his car to the golf course. Maybe this golf course was a popular place for teens to hang out because of the scenic view of the ocean?
Also, people often do stupid stuff like kill someone when it will be obvious that they would be the prime suspect. I don't believe Carillo is telling the truth about what happened the night Kurt died, nor do I give him much credit for intelligence.
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Old 06-04-2011, 11:47 PM   #135
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None of the Faces of Death movies are real. First, if a film crew knowingly filmed a sacrifice, they'd be just as liable as those who committed the murder. You can't film a murder and distribute it as part of a film without facing the same consequences as the murderer. Second, no group would allow a sacrifice to be filmed. Generally speaking, those who would do such a thing wouldn't be concerned with filming it, getting the lighting right etc... That's evidence that can be used against them and any group practicing this sort of thing would want as little evidence as possible floating around. You're free to believe it is real, but there is actually proof out there that it isn't. Many of the books on the subject have also been debunked. I have quite an extensive collection of those books and the books debunking them. It makes for some pretty interesting reading when you are privy to the real actions of the supposed victims around the time they were supposed to have been being tortured by some Satanic cult.

Moving along. I happen to be a Pagan, so I think I can speak with authority on what we do and what we don't do. First and foremost, we do not practice any form of sacrifice. Now, the sex issue is where the waters get muddy. Some groups do incorporate sexual activity. Many of them are following the tradition of Gerald Gardner, Ray Buckland and their ilk. It is not expressly forbidden, but it is not required either. I won't say that sex is not a part of ritual for some groups, because it is. I will say that I have never seen it done. Normally, it is practiced by one or two types of Pagans. You have your doing everything I can to piss of the uptight people types and those who follow Gardner et al. The rest of us don't bother with that stuff because, well, there's no need to. Some will say it enhances the ritual or whatever. Personally, I find that an excuse to get some and nothing more.

In all honesty, if most non-Pagans attended one ritual of ours, they would get something completely different from what they expect. In fact, they would probably be bored and disappointed because no naked people are running around engaging in wanton sex. You'd see pretty much what you see in any religious celebration.

Now, the morality comment from a few pages back rubbed me the wrong way. So do all of the references of this "cult." It is true that our faith is different and it teaches us to interact with those around us differently, however, our morals are generally the same. We do not take kindly to anybody engaging in sexual relations with under-aged people for starters. The people who find that sort of thing "liberating" or whatever face the scorn of the rest of us and usually end up with a police office on their doorstep. Also, a different religion does not a cult equal. It's kind of like if I were calling protestants a cult. That would offend protestants. We get lumped into groups all of the time which do not fit us.

I will wind up this novel very shortly, I promise. I have one more point to address. What people often consider proof of "Satanic" activity is usually kids screwing around. The Church of Satan in SF has a building in which to practice. They don't need to go out in the woods for such things. They do not condone sacrifice or anything of the sort. Are there mixed up kids out there skinning animals and claiming they are Satanists? Absolutely. Are they really Satanists? Not by a long shot.

The armor missing bit, is quite easy to explain if you know a thing or two about the SCA. Armor is more expensive then you would imagine. It is extremely pricey. Somebody probably stole it from the car to either sell at an event or to use. I'm not kidding, the stuff costs a fortune. The more authentic it is, the more it will set you back. People make a great deal of money on Ebay selling SCA armor. Makes we wish I would have learned how when my ex dragged me to so many of their events.
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