Sitcoms Online - Main Page / Message Boards - Main Page / News Blog / Photo Galleries / DVD Reviews / Buy TV Shows on DVD and Blu-ray

View Today's Active Threads / View New Posts / Mark All Boards Read / Chit Chat Board


Unsolved Mysteries Online Main Page / Message Board / Show History / Episode Guide (1987-2002) / Expanded Episode Guide #2 / Expanded Episode Guide #3 / Case Updates / Wiki / Official Site / Related Links / True Crime Shows Message Board / All Other Cases Message Board / Buy The Best of Unsolved Mysteries DVD / Buy Unsolved Mysteries - The Ultimate Collection DVD

Unsolved Mysteries: Original Robert Stack Episodes - The Complete First Season

Watch or Buy Unsolved Mysteries: Original Robert Stack Episodes - The Complete First Season on Amazon Instant Video
/
Season 2
/ Season 3 / Season 4 /
Season 5
/ Season 6 / Season 7 /
Season 8
/ Season 9 / Season 10 /
Season 11
/ Season 12 / Watch on YouTube

Unsolved Mysteries with Dennis Farina Episodes

Watch or Buy Unsolved Mysteries with Dennis Farina - The Complete First Season Episodes on Amazon Instant Video
/ Season 2 / Season 3 / Season 4 / Season 5 / Season 6 / Season 7 / Season 8 / Watch on YouTube


Unsolved Mysteries: UFOs

Buy Unsolved Mysteries: UFOs DVD Set
Unsolved Mysteries: Ghosts

Buy Unsolved Mysteries: Ghosts DVD Set
Unsolved Mysteries: Miracles

Buy Unsolved Mysteries: Miracles DVD Set
Unsolved Mysteries: Bizarre Murders

Buy Unsolved Mysteries: Bizarre Murders DVD Set
Unsolved Mysteries: Psychics

Buy Unsolved Mysteries: Psychics DVD Set
Unsolved Mysteries: Strange Legends

Buy Unsolved Mysteries: Strange Legends DVD Set

Sitcoms Online Message Boards - Forums  

Go Back   Sitcoms Online Message Boards - Forums > Unsolved Mysteries

Notices

SitcomsOnline.com News Blog Headlines Twitter Facebook Instagram RSS

SitcomsOnline Digest: HBO Max Developing Comedy Series Based Upon Vacation Films; Beverly Hillbillies Mansion Sells for $150 Million
Fri-Yay: Hope for Sitcoms of the 2020s; Good Times Cast Announced for Next Live in Front of a Studio Audience
All in the Family Cast Announced for Next Live in Front of a Studio Audience; Curb Returns Jan. 19
Reno 911 Returning with New Episodes; Remembering Philip McKeon of Alice
77th Annual Golden Globe Awards Nominees; Hugh Laurie HBO Comedy Set for January
Remembering René Auberjonois of Benson; Brady Bunch Star to Give Tour of White House on HGTV
Sitcom Stars on Talk Shows; This Week in Sitcoms (Week of December 9, 2019)


New on DVD/Blu-ray (October/November/December)

Life with Lucy - The Complete Series Step by Step - The Complete Fifth Season The Big Bang Theory - The Twelfth and Final Season The King of Queens - The Complete Series (Mill Creek) Fuller House - The Complete Fourth Season

10/08 - Leave it to Beaver - The Complete Series
10/08 - Life with Lucy - The Complete Series
10/15 - Mom - The Complete Sixth Season
10/16 - Our Miss Brooks - Season 1 - Volume 1
10/16 - Our Miss Brooks - Season 1 - Volume 2
11/05 - The Fonz and the Happy Days Gang - The Complete Animated Series
11/05 - Laverne & Shirley in the Army (Animated Series) - The DVD Edition
11/05 - Letterkenny - Seasons 1 & 2
11/05 - Step by Step - The Complete Fifth Season (WBShop.com)
11/12 - The Big Bang Theory - The Twelfth and Final Season (Blu-ray)
11/12 - The Big Bang Theory - The Complete Series (Blu-ray Limited Edition)
11/18 - The Guest Book - Season Two
11/19 - The King of Queens - The Complete Series (Mill Creek)
11/19 - The Kominsky Method - The Complete First Season (Blu-ray)
12/03 - The Simpsons - The Nineteenth Season
12/03 - The Simpsons - Seasons 1-20: Limited Collector's Set
12/10 - Family Guy - Season Seventeen
12/17 - Fuller House - The Complete Fourth Season
More TV DVD Releases / DVD Reviews Archive / SitcomsOnline Digest


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-28-2010, 08:30 AM   #76
cocytus
Member
Forum Regular
 
cocytus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 15, 2010
Location: NE Indiana
Posts: 779
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zlatko
Two points I'd like to bring up about this case.

-I find the whole idea that Kurt wanted to go for a swim at a beach during the night very questionable. Especially when one considers that San Francisco almost never has hot nights, even during the summer. Usually, it's cold or cool. Kurt wanted to jump in the cold water then enjoy the cold air? Also, why bother driving to the beach when someone can just take a cool shower?

-Caradoc seems more suspicious than I initially thought. During the entire interview with UM, he's constantly looking away from the camera. His explanation of Kurt going to the beach is odd as well.
I can actually remember two very warm nights in San Francisco although this was in the late 1990's. And there are numerous people in SF that swim in the ocean regardless of the temperature.It wouldn't be MY choice, but who knows what people will do?
cocytus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2010, 11:17 AM   #77
TheCars1986
Proud Daddy
Senior Member
 
TheCars1986's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 22, 2008
Location: Maryland
Posts: 6,708
Default

I think Kurt and Gabriel Carillo had a relationship that Kurt was ashamed to admit to his father and peers. Maybe he was chastised for it and decided to take his own life...I don't see how or why foul play would have been involved. Kurt and "Caradoc" knew each other long enough to know what sexual orientation each other where, so if "Caradoc" knew Kurt was straight why even make a pass at him? And if Kurt knew "Caradoc" was gay, would a pass at him really caused enough of a stir to cause "Caradoc" to order him murdered? And why would he even be staying at his apartment if he knew "Caradoc" had intimate feelings for him? Not that Kurt was homophobic or anything, but it certainly would be uncomfortable (if you were straight or gay) staying at someone's place who has feelings for you but they're not reciprocated.
TheCars1986 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2010, 12:40 PM   #78
Zlatko
Member
Forum Regular
 
Zlatko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 04, 2008
Location: Nowhereland
Posts: 361
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cocytus
I can actually remember two very warm nights in San Francisco although this was in the late 1990's. And there are numerous people in SF that swim in the ocean regardless of the temperature.It wouldn't be MY choice, but who knows what people will do?
I'm not denying that SF has warm nights but I find that they tend to be rare. I checked out the weather on the date of Kurt's death, Sept. 10, 1984. It was around 60 F or so. I wouldn't think of that as being excessively warm. Not enough to warent a swim in the bay but that's just me.

Back on the subject of Caradoc. It's also possible that someone else in the cult possibly murdered Kurt. Caradoc being the leader of the cult, would have a lot of admirers. Perhaps someone in the cult saw that Caradoc favored Kurt over others. They could have become jealous enough to kill Kurt. Caradoc, fearing prosecution, had no choice but to cover up his death. This is just a thought.

It'd be interesting to hear from a former member of Caradoc's cult. They could shed light on the internal dynamics of Caradoc's cult which in turn could tell us about Kurt's death.
Zlatko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2011, 08:30 PM   #79
LooksLikeCRicci
Likes to live in a clean house
Moderator
Senior Member
 
LooksLikeCRicci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 27, 2005
Posts: 3,773
Send a message via AIM to LooksLikeCRicci Send a message via Yahoo to LooksLikeCRicci
Default Kurt perhaps victim of an attempted rape?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zlatko
I'm not denying that SF has warm nights but I find that they tend to be rare. I checked out the weather on the date of Kurt's death, Sept. 10, 1984. It was around 60 F or so. I wouldn't think of that as being excessively warm. Not enough to warent a swim in the bay but that's just me.
I just watched this segment again and had the same thought you did, Zlatko. I agree with your findings. 60F is not excessively warm, nor would I imagine that someone from California would find that excessively warm. (I live in a much cooler environment and I would not classify 60F as "too hot to sleep.") However, I wish the UM segment had addressed the heat situation in the apartment building itself. Was the heat on? Was it broken and making the apartment really warm? If that was the case, it could have explained why Kurt would have left the apartment, saying that "it's too hot."

That aside... I might be missing something, but it seems like Caradoc was the last one who saw Kurt McFall alive. I, too, find it odd that the two of them went to dinner and a movie on the night before Kurt died. More so, I find it very strange that he was spending nights at Caradoc's apartment, especially given the age difference between the two.

I have many problems with Caradoc's story, all of which have previously been discussed in detail:

1. How does someone go running without shoes? (Unless... I have heard that if you're running in the sand, it's a better aerobic workout. I also have friends who subscribe to the theory that its better on your knees if you run barefoot. Maybe someone else can clarify that.) I cannot IMAGINE someone going rock climbing without shoes. That just seems like a bad idea in general.

2. What happened to his belt buckle? He had a belt on, but the buckle was missing, in addition to his shirt.

Actually, the more I think about this, it sounds to me like Kurt may have been asleep on the couch with his shoes and shirt off. I'm purely speculating here, but Caradoc may have made sexual advances on him that evening. Kurt said no, and perhaps that got Caradoc mad, since he had taken him out to dinner and a movie earlier and felt that Kurt "owed him". Maybe Caradoc attempted to use force on Kurt, which would explain how his belt buckle was missing/broken. I could see the two of them getting into a heated argument, with Kurt getting up and leaving the apartment without his shoes, socks, or shirt. Caradoc followed... they ended up on the cliff and Caradoc pushed him over out of fear that Kurt was going to tell.

There are too many unanswered questions in this case for me to think this was a plain accident. I don't think Kurt's death was a satanic ritual, but I believe that Caradoc knew more than he was letting on in his interview. I wonder if the police interviewed Caradoc's neighbors. Did they hear anything? Did they do a search of Caradoc's apartment, the last known location of Kurt? Did they find his belt buckle?
LooksLikeCRicci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2011, 08:36 PM   #80
thinwhiteduke74
Member
Forum Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 16, 2011
Posts: 275
Default

This is one of those segments to which I alluded in my "elided homosexual advances" thread. To me it seems obvious that Carodoc was gay, and McFall's spending the night in his apartment sent off several alarm bells. No evidence suggests they were lovers, but the episode omitted enough details to hint at a mystery that I don't think the evidence supports, which is to say: I see no evidence of foul play, only accidental death precipitated by feelings beyond young McFall's (he was a teenager, remember) ability to control.
thinwhiteduke74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2011, 09:35 PM   #81
LooksLikeCRicci
Likes to live in a clean house
Moderator
Senior Member
 
LooksLikeCRicci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 27, 2005
Posts: 3,773
Send a message via AIM to LooksLikeCRicci Send a message via Yahoo to LooksLikeCRicci
Default

I certainly respect your opinion, thinwhiteduke. I have a hard time believing it was an accidental fall, especially considering that they didn't find any alcohol in Kurt's system. Sad, I know, but if there had been even a trace of alcohol in Kurt's system, I'd be more likely to accept it was an accidental death.
LooksLikeCRicci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2011, 09:45 PM   #82
thinwhiteduke74
Member
Forum Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 16, 2011
Posts: 275
Default

Admittedly the segment looks spooky because of the Satanic Cult angle, and as a result the producers inserted a few clues which to my eyes look like red herrings.

For example, McFall's body found without shoes. What if the tide had stripped his body of shoes? It's certainly possible that in the middle of the night he put on his shoes without socks to go for a walk, then slipped down that cliff (causing the cuts and abrasions).

I don't deny that Caradoc didn't tell the whole truth: going for a swim in the middle of the night is bizarre. But I don't see any reason to suspect him of murder other than his wearing tacky glasses, chanting, and having a crush on McFall.
thinwhiteduke74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2011, 01:57 AM   #83
Kyte
The Greatest
Frequent Poster
 
Kyte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 10, 2008
Location: California
Posts: 125
Heart

Quote:
Originally Posted by cocytus
I can actually remember two very warm nights in San Francisco although this was in the late 1990's. And there are numerous people in SF that swim in the ocean regardless of the temperature.It wouldn't be MY choice, but who knows what people will do?
I've been living in SF all my life, and hot or cold, no one would ever in their right mind go out on a hike deep into Land's End at 3 in the morning. No one. If Kurt was having trouble sleeping, he'd probably have watched some TV or something; not venture off into a place notorious for abductions and murders alone and in the early hours of the morning.

I don't know what the hell you guys are thinking believing that this death was accidental and that Caradoc wasn't involved. The fact that his cult has openly admitted to participating in sexual rituals (and not just limited to heterosexual ones either), AND the fact that he was involved in sex scandals with several young and male members of his cult leads me to believe that it was pretty damn likely he was the one responsible for ending Kurt's life.

As stated by the others, I believe Caradoc made a pass at Kurt and Kurt was taken disgustingly aback by it. Feeling angry and betrayed, I believe that Caradoc probably rounded up a few of his guys and committed a sort of ritual type killing on him. After all, the injuries on his back did not reflect those of having fallen off the rocks, and more like those from a whip. It is highly plausible that it was from his own belt. Its clear to me that Kurt, like so many other adolescent boys, was feeling painfully lonely and in dire need of some friendship. When you're young and searching for guidance, going to a movie and having dinner with a grown man doesn't seem creepy. Not until you've caught on what that person's real intentions are.

Its hard to know that Caradoc's dead and justice will never be served, even if this case is solved. But, that's life.
Kyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2011, 02:02 AM   #84
Kyte
The Greatest
Frequent Poster
 
Kyte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 10, 2008
Location: California
Posts: 125
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zlatko
I'm not denying that SF has warm nights but I find that they tend to be rare. I checked out the weather on the date of Kurt's death, Sept. 10, 1984. It was around 60 F or so. I wouldn't think of that as being excessively warm. Not enough to warent a swim in the bay but that's just me.

Back on the subject of Caradoc. It's also possible that someone else in the cult possibly murdered Kurt. Caradoc being the leader of the cult, would have a lot of admirers. Perhaps someone in the cult saw that Caradoc favored Kurt over others. They could have become jealous enough to kill Kurt. Caradoc, fearing prosecution, had no choice but to cover up his death. This is just a thought.

It'd be interesting to hear from a former member of Caradoc's cult. They could shed light on the internal dynamics of Caradoc's cult which in turn could tell us about Kurt's death.
I think the day this case will be solved is the day that one of the members is about to die of guilt and spills the beans on what really happened, because I damn well know at least one of the cult members knows how Kurt died and who did it. But cults are more secretive than Soviet Russia-era KGB, so its impossible that this will ever occur.
Kyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2011, 06:53 AM   #85
thinwhiteduke74
Member
Forum Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 16, 2011
Posts: 275
Default

Let's not overestimate the power of this cult. From the visual evidence presented on UM, the cultists looked like your usual gaggle of nerds and malcontents. Is there something UM isn't showing?
thinwhiteduke74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2011, 09:55 AM   #86
TheCars1986
Proud Daddy
Senior Member
 
TheCars1986's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 22, 2008
Location: Maryland
Posts: 6,708
Default

The lifeguards that discovered Kurt's body noted that there appeared to be "no obvious external trauma" and that his body was in "fairly good condition". How on Earth could this be classified as a homicide? How exactly did Caradoc and his cult kill Kurt if his body was found in that condition? The coroner's report only noted cuts and abrasions on his back and made no mention of defensive wounds. And Kurt's father said in the segment that his son was physically able enough to hold his own and that it would have taken several people to overpower him. As creepy as Caradoc appeared to be, he also seemed to bring up a good point when he said if he wanted someone murdered, why would he do it to someone who was staying at his house and who's father knew he was staying there? I really think this was just a tragic accident, and the only reason it was profiled on UM was because of the whole cult angle.
TheCars1986 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2011, 12:54 PM   #87
thinwhiteduke74
Member
Forum Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 16, 2011
Posts: 275
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyte
I've been living in SF all my life, and hot or cold, no one would ever in their right mind go out on a hike deep into Land's End at 3 in the morning. No one. If Kurt was having trouble sleeping, he'd probably have watched some TV or something; not venture off into a place notorious for abductions and murders alone and in the early hours of the morning.
He was seventeen, right? An age at which lots of kids do stupid things, especially if, as you and I both claim, it looks like he fled Caradoc's apartment.

Quote:
The fact that his cult has openly admitted to participating in sexual rituals (and not just limited to heterosexual ones either), AND the fact that he was involved in sex scandals with several young and male members of his cult leads me to believe that it was pretty damn likely he was the one responsible for ending Kurt's life.
Now we're getting something juicy! Have you a link?

Quote:
After all, the injuries on his back did not reflect those of having fallen off the rocks, and more like those from a whip. It is highly plausible that it was from his own belt.
Was this mentioned in the coroner's report?
thinwhiteduke74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2011, 10:19 PM   #88
justins5256
Member
Senior Member
 
justins5256's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 08, 2002
Posts: 3,841
Default

I was thinking about this case recently. I still believe that the evidence could just as easily point toward an accidental death.

It's not inconceivable that Kurt could have decided to go to the beach. Keeping in mind that the Coast Guard was not able to determine precisely where Kurt entered the water, I think he could have gone climbing on the rocks and lost his footing, or he could have jumped in to the water. In either event, I think Kurt wound up in the water and unconscious. He then drowned or died from blunt force trauma. The ocean currents could have separated his shoes and belt buckle from the body before it washed ashore.

There is no way to say the beer cans are related to Kurt McFall's death. The cans could have already been there when Kurt pulled up. Or, a wino or some teens could have disposed of the cans in or around Kurt's abandoned car - the car door was hanging wide open in the UM re-enactment. Someone could have been in Kurt's car. Further, the toxicology tests did not detect alcohol in Kurt's system. Assuming the abandoned car and beer cans were a "phony scene" as suggested by Kurt's father, what killer would leave the incriminating beer cans behind knowing that the victim had not actually consumed the alcohol?

Finally, if Kurt was in fear for his life because of some secret he uncovered in the cult, why would he willingly spend the night with the leader whom Kurt surmised was plotting to destroy him? I am also reminded of Caradoc's argument that Kurt's Dad knew Kurt was spending the night at Caradoc's apartment, would that really be the best time to commit a murder?

Is Caradoc a homosexual? I don't know and neither does anyone else posting here. He did die of AIDS and his religion supposedly did involve some sexual practices the details of which are unknown, so draw your own conclusions. Regardless, there is not one shred of evidence or proof that the man's sexual preference or the cult's alleged sexual practices have anything to do with McFall's death anymore than the "Satanic panic" inferences suggested by UM.
justins5256 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2011, 03:42 PM   #89
Kyte
The Greatest
Frequent Poster
 
Kyte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 10, 2008
Location: California
Posts: 125
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thinwhiteduke74
Let's not overestimate the power of this cult. From the visual evidence presented on UM, the cultists looked like your usual gaggle of nerds and malcontents. Is there something UM isn't showing?
So nerdy and softspoken people aren't capable of acting maliciously? If you ask me, those socially awkward types are the creepiest out there.
Kyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2011, 04:13 PM   #90
thinwhiteduke74
Member
Forum Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 16, 2011
Posts: 275
Default

I was very worried about the malicious manner in which the woman in the D&D drag treated her hair.
thinwhiteduke74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:20 AM.


Frequently Asked Questions

1) How do I contact Unsolved Mysteries with information on segments?

If you any information on cases, you can contact them via:

Website: www.unsolved.com

Contact form on official Unsolved Mysteries site

Please note that their old mailing address and 1-800 phone number no longer work.


2) Where can I watch Unsolved Mysteries?

Unsolved Mysteries is available for streaming on Amazon Instant Video, YouTube and Hulu.


Although the administrators and moderators of the Sitcoms Online Message Boards will attempt to keep all objectionable messages off this forum, it is impossible for us to review all messages. All messages express the views of the author, and neither the owners of the Sitcoms Online Message Boards, nor vBulletin Solutions Inc. (developers of vBulletin) will be held responsible for the content of any message. The owners of the Sitcoms Online Message Boards reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.