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Old 09-01-2015, 07:04 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiseguy182
Do you know of any 120 pound lady who can down $80 worth of pizza in one sitting? This may come as a surprise to you, but stealing somebody's credit card number and running up charges on it is a criminal act. It's theft, identity theft and fraud. They are serious charges. Not to mention the drunk driving that endangered the lives of everyone she crossed path with those nights.

In case you still don't believe me (which you almost assuredly won't) you can read about it yourself. 6 charges made to 3 different businesses. You can also read about how she lied her ass off when confronted about the theft by the police officers.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7_...UDg/view?pli=1

The theft of the cosmetics isn't some vague comment coming from an anonymous person with a grudge against Maura, it came directly from one of her friends, said friend also believes Maura has started a new life somewhere, and said she was told by the Murrays to not say negative things about Maura publically. If you'd like to read that for yourself, here is the link:
http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2014...est-point.html

A bit compulsive? We know she stole things from other people on at least 7 occasions, and had planned on more. The only reason she stopped was because she was caught.

You seem to be a rather hardcore defender of Maura and the unlikely notion that she ran into foul play at the hands of a bogeyman. May I ask you what compels you to feel this way? Please be as specific as possible.
She used someone's card and charged less than $100 fraudulently. So that makes her a horrible, diabolical girl who's life is spiraling out of control? Yeah, it's a crappy thing to do. She deserved punishment, without a doubt. But I just fail to see how a petty, easily discovered theft puts her in some category of a monster with no chance of redemption?

Maybe I'm far too forgiving, but when I was 21 the truly bad people I knew when I was younger were busy slinging drugs, committing armed robberies or leaving people for dead while their buddy OD's alone in some alley.

I can't say Maura was a perfect person by a long shot, but her record was pretty mild, especially by Massachusetts standards. Kids make mistakes. Maybe a pattern was starting, but then again maybe the run in with police squashed it. Then again, maybe all her problems where a result of a problem with alcohol. Again, I can't fault her for that. But there's always hope for problems like that.

As far as my thoughts on foul play. Show me one person who disappeared by their own accord, successfully for many years...and I'll give you 100 examples of ones who disappeared and were found murdered. The odds are highly against it, especially when were dealing with a drunken 21 year old who doesn't seem to have the best critical thinking skills. In fact, it even borders on tinfoil hat fan fiction.

Fred Murray, John Scarinza, heck even Jeff Strelzin and pretty much any NH LE who have commented publicly on this have all acknowledged a strong possibility of homicide here.
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Old 09-02-2015, 04:36 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Caffeine
She used someone's card and charged less than $100 fraudulently. So that makes her a horrible, diabolical girl who's life is spiraling out of control? Yeah, it's a crappy thing to do. She deserved punishment, without a doubt. But I just fail to see how a petty, easily discovered theft puts her in some category of a monster with no chance of redemption?

Maybe I'm far too forgiving, but when I was 21 the truly bad people I knew when I was younger were busy slinging drugs, committing armed robberies or leaving people for dead while their buddy OD's alone in some alley.

I can't say Maura was a perfect person by a long shot, but her record was pretty mild, especially by Massachusetts standards.
What do you mean by Massachusetts standards? Like I said, the issue here isn't the total amount, it's the number of offenses, knowing that she would have continued to steal had she not been caught, and her not giving a damn about what she was putting the cardholder through. The victim in this case could have been a starving college student already on a fixed income. But Maura didn't care a whit about that and continued running up charges without a care in the world.

But even more troubling than that is we now know she not only drove drunk, she drunk while she drove, which is pretty damn serious. And considering she could have very nearly ended somebody's life, all of this makes me think she simply did not care about people. Her behavior was abnormal and she absolutely was spiraling out of control.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caffeine
Kids make mistakes.
She was a 21 year old woman. She wasn't a kid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caffeine
Then again, maybe all her problems where a result of a problem with alcohol. Again, I can't fault her for that.
I can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caffeine
As far as my thoughts on foul play. Show me one person who disappeared by their own accord, successfully for many years...and I'll give you 100 examples of ones who disappeared and were found murdered. The odds are highly against it, especially when were dealing with a drunken 21 year old who doesn't seem to have the best critical thinking skills. In fact, it even borders on tinfoil hat fan fiction.
But Maura was, by all accounts, a very intelligent person. This may very well be that "one case." I also think you need to look at the odds from a different point of view:

What are the odds of some random lunatic running around:

1) in a rural area, in a town with a population of less than 5,000
2) in a sparsely populated, low-crime state, tucked away in a corner of the country.
3) in the relatively low-crime New England section of the country.
4) and found Maura (in the dark) at the right exact moment.
5) and was able to avoid leaving any signs of a struggle.
6) and able to avoid detection for over a decade and presumably not commit any similar crimes, before or since.

When you factor all of that in, coupled with the extensive criminal history of the entire Murray family, the vast amount of lies they and her friends spewed and their high amount of evasiveness, and the probability that this is a hoax is very high. Certainly not "tin foil hat fiction".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caffeine
Fred Murray, John Scarinza, heck even Jeff Strelzin and pretty much any NH LE who have commented publicly on this have all acknowledged a strong possibility of homicide here.
Fred Murray's opinion means zilch to me. I don't know of the 2 people you mention. From the Charley Project page: "The police do not suspect foul play in Maura's disappearance."

And of course you have that idiot Fred Murray out there desperately trying to link Maura's disappearance to that of Brianna Maitland, another pretty young woman. Thankfully the police don't believe such garbage.
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Old 09-02-2015, 04:45 AM   #63
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This is from Renner's blog. Does this sound like the work of a family concerned for Maura's safety? Absolutely not!

"When the TV cameras were there, Fred made sure he was actively searching for Maura. But, according to those who stayed at the hotel with him, during the months after Maura disappeared, it was mostly show. He would wake up, go for a jog, get breakfast, then give assignments to searchers. They would regroup for an early dinner and beers and then settle in for the night. Unless the reporters were there. Then Fred would get out in center and actively look through the woods.

Until he sued the state of New Hampshire, Fred was uninterested in searching Maura's personal computer -- he removed it from Maura's dorm and put it in the back of Tim Carpenter's truck. It sat in his closet until police collected it -- and then Fred wanted it back.

Maura's mother was never involved in the search for her daughter. Her sister Julie appears to have dropped by once in the months after Maura vanished. Her other sister, Kathleen, told reporters she thought Maura's breakdown a few days before her disappearance was so that she could just get out of work. Her brother, Kurt, wrote a song he posted on his Facebook page about Maura, asking her what the family did to her to make her run away."
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Old 09-02-2015, 11:33 AM   #64
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Out of curiosity, what makes foul play more likely than dying of the elements in this case?
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Old 09-02-2015, 05:11 PM   #65
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Out of curiosity, what makes foul play more likely than dying of the elements in this case?
Dying in the elements, presumably to evade police after a DUI (suicide is another story) would simply defy all logic and common sense. We're talking about a February evening in NH. The snowbanks on the side of the roads are several feet, the ground is frozen solid, as well as bodies of water, it's dark, wet and cold. There's no indication she had anything in the car to prepare for such a thing. At the very minimum, you'd want several layers of clothes, wool socks, boots and a flashlight. Otherwise, you'd be blinding walking in the dark and not knowing what lies under the snow you're about to step on. Doing that with cotton socks and tennis shoes, well your feet would be numb, wet icicles after about 30 minutes.

But the main thing is, what would be the purpose of doing this? To evade police she could probably walk 100 feet away from the road in the woods and lay low for an hour without being seen. There is no benefit for her to enter the woods, but there is a ton of risk.

Most importantly, when they searched by helicopter they found no tracks suggesting she went from the accident sight into the woods. I'm sure LE entertained the idea she walked the road and may have went in further down as well...but there was nothing. This was using infrared, too. There was no new snow either so everything was basically untouched. It just seems very much like the police and fish & game search yielded nothing in terms of finding any sort of travel in the snow in the area.

Now, as far as foul play, people say what are chances of running into a predator? Let's keep in mind here...she went missing. She's been gone for over a decade. Something happened. To me, that greatly increases the notion of murder from 1 in a million to something much more likely. It's hard to dismiss considering the sheer amount of scenarios that have ended that way.

Sure, she could have run away. Pretty much everything is plausible. But is running away probable? Not in my mind, under these circumstances. To conclude that 1) Fred Murray is acting suspicious 2) We've found no trace of Maura 3) Her life was a troubled mess = she undoubtedly ran away is quite a stretch. Sorry, but I ain't drinking the Kool Aid with that one.

She may have been smart, but not that smart. She got caught stealing and likely drove drunk at times. To think she magically straightened up, stayed out of trouble and dropped off the radar is probably only more plausible than say, alien abduction.

By chance if Maura is found, it certainly won't be by someone like Renner and she certainly won't be living.
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Old 09-02-2015, 07:21 PM   #66
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According to the latest podcast, which had access to Maura's cell phone records, during her shift working the security desk at the dorm, this was the timeline the night of the Petrit Vasi hit and run...

*10:10 p.m. - 10:38 p.m. (Maura speaks to her sister Kathleen on her phone.)

*12:07 a.m. - 12:14 a.m. (Maura calls her boyfriend Billy and speaks with him for 7 minutes.)

*12:20 a.m. (Police arrive to find Petrit Vasi unconscious at the intersection of Triangle and Mattoon Streets in Amherst, one mile from Maura's dorm.

*1:00 a.m. (Maura has her breakdown at work and can only say, "My sister, my sister"...and is then escorted back to her dorm by her supervisor. Her shift would have ended at 1:45.)

The problem we have here is we don't know when exactly Petrit was struck by the car. We know police arrived at 12:20 a.m. but we have no idea how long he was lying in the street beforehand. It also doesn't help matters that Petrit was pretty drunk himself when he was struck. He doesn't even remember leaving his friend's house that night. So it's hard to fit an exact time frame where Maura could have snuck away from her shift and hit Vasi.

It's also worth noting that Maura's supervisor, Karen Mayotte, was asked if she thought it was possible that Maura might have struck Petrit Vasi, she said no. This was her exact quote...

"I do not think that she left her shift and was involved at the hit and run accident, for a number of reasons. First of all, the parking lot takes about five minutes to get to your car, and by the time you drove to Amherst Center, had the hit and run, drive back and walk back to the dorm for your shift...she would have gotten caught leaving her post. Her ID card to get into the dorm at that point would be deactivated, as she should already be in there working, thus she'd be stuck outside waiting for someone to open the door, then sneak in to sit back at the desk. And her stuff was sprawled on the desk...nursing book, cell phone, and I don't see her sneaking away, and then taking her book out again. The supervisors are always rotating around Southwest to check up on the receptionists. Thus the odds of her being able to go get the car, do the drive, get back to the dorm...nope, don't see it happening. As I tell my first graders when learning about probability....very highly unlikely."

I guess it should also be noted that there were several hit and run accidents on the UMass campus during that academic year.
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Old 09-02-2015, 11:31 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caffeine
Dying in the elements, presumably to evade police after a DUI (suicide is another story) would simply defy all logic and common sense. We're talking about a February evening in NH. The snowbanks on the side of the roads are several feet, the ground is frozen solid, as well as bodies of water, it's dark, wet and cold. There's no indication she had anything in the car to prepare for such a thing. At the very minimum, you'd want several layers of clothes, wool socks, boots and a flashlight. Otherwise, you'd be blinding walking in the dark and not knowing what lies under the snow you're about to step on. Doing that with cotton socks and tennis shoes, well your feet would be numb, wet icicles after about 30 minutes.

But the main thing is, what would be the purpose of doing this? To evade police she could probably walk 100 feet away from the road in the woods and lay low for an hour without being seen. There is no benefit for her to enter the woods, but there is a ton of risk.

Most importantly, when they searched by helicopter they found no tracks suggesting she went from the accident sight into the woods. I'm sure LE entertained the idea she walked the road and may have went in further down as well...but there was nothing. This was using infrared, too. There was no new snow either so everything was basically untouched. It just seems very much like the police and fish & game search yielded nothing in terms of finding any sort of travel in the snow in the area.
But there were no signs of a struggle either. No second set of footprints. No blood. No dropped personal items scattered about. No tire tracks where Maura's footprints ended. Nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caffeine
Sure, she could have run away. Pretty much everything is plausible. But is running away probable? Not in my mind, under these circumstances. To conclude that 1) Fred Murray is acting suspicious 2) We've found no trace of Maura 3) Her life was a troubled mess = she undoubtedly ran away is quite a stretch. Sorry, but I ain't drinking the Kool Aid with that one.

She may have been smart, but not that smart. She got caught stealing and likely drove drunk at times. To think she magically straightened up, stayed out of trouble and dropped off the radar is probably only more plausible than say, alien abduction.
The idea that some random bogeyman was out in a super low-crime, desolated area at the precise moment and left absolutely no evidence is tin foil hat fiction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caffeine
By chance if Maura is found, it certainly won't be by someone like Renner and she certainly won't be living.
So you know that for a fact huh? At least Renner is attempting to solve this case, which is a lot more than I can say for Fred Murray, who uses every opportunity to stop people investigating, lie his ass off and get others with knowledge to do the same, evade police and cover up anything that tarnishes the perfect, princess image of Maura he wants everyone to have.
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Old 09-02-2015, 11:50 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dynoguy88
According to the latest podcast, which had access to Maura's cell phone records, during her shift working the security desk at the dorm, this was the timeline the night of the Petrit Vasi hit and run...

*10:10 p.m. - 10:38 p.m. (Maura speaks to her sister Kathleen on her phone.)

*12:07 a.m. - 12:14 a.m. (Maura calls her boyfriend Billy and speaks with him for 7 minutes.)

*12:20 a.m. (Police arrive to find Petrit Vasi unconscious at the intersection of Triangle and Mattoon Streets in Amherst, one mile from Maura's dorm.

*1:00 a.m. (Maura has her breakdown at work and can only say, "My sister, my sister"...and is then escorted back to her dorm by her supervisor. Her shift would have ended at 1:45.)

The problem we have here is we don't know when exactly Petrit was struck by the car. We know police arrived at 12:20 a.m. but we have no idea how long he was lying in the street beforehand. It also doesn't help matters that Petrit was pretty drunk himself when he was struck. He doesn't even remember leaving his friend's house that night. So it's hard to fit an exact time frame where Maura could have snuck away from her shift and hit Vasi.

It's also worth noting that Maura's supervisor, Karen Mayotte, was asked if she thought it was possible that Maura might have struck Petrit Vasi, she said no. This was her exact quote...

"I do not think that she left her shift and was involved at the hit and run accident, for a number of reasons. First of all, the parking lot takes about five minutes to get to your car, and by the time you drove to Amherst Center, had the hit and run, drive back and walk back to the dorm for your shift...she would have gotten caught leaving her post. Her ID card to get into the dorm at that point would be deactivated, as she should already be in there working, thus she'd be stuck outside waiting for someone to open the door, then sneak in to sit back at the desk. And her stuff was sprawled on the desk...nursing book, cell phone, and I don't see her sneaking away, and then taking her book out again. The supervisors are always rotating around Southwest to check up on the receptionists. Thus the odds of her being able to go get the car, do the drive, get back to the dorm...nope, don't see it happening. As I tell my first graders when learning about probability....very highly unlikely."

I guess it should also be noted that there were several hit and run accidents on the UMass campus during that academic year.
The main thing I take away from that is Maura kept making/taking personal phone calls at work, which was not allowed. She also let two people in without ID's, which was against protocol and she was sent home early for the day by her supervisor.

It's also important to note her sister claims their conversation was mundane, which was apparently not the case, so another instance of a family member lying.

Why can't anybody in the Murray family ever tell the truth on anything?
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Old 09-05-2015, 02:35 AM   #69
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ALL of Fred's search "efforts" have been concentrated on the same exact, small section of Haverhill. He travels there every week. Of course, Maura could be anywhere in New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Vermont, New England or Canada, not to mention anywhere in the country, but Fred keeps checking that same exact spot that many people have already gone over numerous, numerous times (including Fred himself).

What I really think is that Maura is somewhere in that general area, Fred visits her every week, then pops by the area in Haverhill to give people the impression he is searching for her. This, as well as his other lame attempts don't fool me a bit.
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Old 09-10-2015, 05:08 PM   #70
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I agree with those who say that the most likely outcome was that after the wreck, Maura wandered around and eventually died of exposure. Because it can be damn near impossible to find someone who has gone missing out in the woods and she was drunk, possibly disoriented from the crash. I just don't see her or her family as being capable of pulling off so massive a ruse, really.
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Old 09-11-2015, 02:13 AM   #71
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I agree with those who say that the most likely outcome was that after the wreck, Maura wandered around and eventually died of exposure. Because it can be damn near impossible to find someone who has gone missing out in the woods and she was drunk, possibly disoriented from the crash. I just don't see her or her family as being capable of pulling off so massive a ruse, really.
The problem with that is that if Maura were hurt, her best bet would have been to stay in the car and wait for help, because moving around while injured would be incredibly dumb. That's not to say she wouldn't do that if she were disoriented, (because there have been instances of people wandering off while hurt when they should have stayed while they are and not having the mental faculties at the time to realize the mistake they were making). But here's the thing: Maura *LOCKED* her car. I really can't believe she was so disoriented that she left her car and wandered around until perishing, but having the presence of mind to lock her vehicle. That makes no sense.

May I ask why do you feel Maura's family is incapable of concocting this ruse? Considering that nearly all of them have engaged in heavy duty lying, cover up, sabotaging efforts to find her, and all the criminal activities they've engaged in, I feel that they are absolutely capable of this.
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Old 09-11-2015, 01:55 PM   #72
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The problem with that is that if Maura were hurt, her best bet would have been to stay in the car and wait for help, because moving around while injured would be incredibly dumb. That's not to say she wouldn't do that if she were disoriented, (because there have been instances of people wandering off while hurt when they should have stayed while they are and not having the mental faculties at the time to realize the mistake they were making). But here's the thing: Maura *LOCKED* her car. I really can't believe she was so disoriented that she left her car and wandered around until perishing, but having the presence of mind to lock her vehicle. That makes no sense.

May I ask why do you feel Maura's family is incapable of concocting this ruse? Considering that nearly all of them have engaged in heavy duty lying, cover up, sabotaging efforts to find her, and all the criminal activities they've engaged in, I feel that they are absolutely capable of this.

Wow, I have spent the afternoon reading all of this. My questions is: If her family is that sketchy, why help or hide her? What do they have to gain? Her dad gains attention that he seeks, apparently, but really why?
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Old 09-11-2015, 02:27 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiseguy182
The problem with that is that if Maura were hurt, her best bet would have been to stay in the car and wait for help, because moving around while injured would be incredibly dumb. That's not to say she wouldn't do that if she were disoriented, (because there have been instances of people wandering off while hurt when they should have stayed while they are and not having the mental faculties at the time to realize the mistake they were making). But here's the thing: Maura *LOCKED* her car. I really can't believe she was so disoriented that she left her car and wandered around until perishing, but having the presence of mind to lock her vehicle. That makes no sense.

May I ask why do you feel Maura's family is incapable of concocting this ruse? Considering that nearly all of them have engaged in heavy duty lying, cover up, sabotaging efforts to find her, and all the criminal activities they've engaged in, I feel that they are absolutely capable of this.
If Maura were drunk, I don't think she would have stayed in the car. I think she would have panicked and tried to flee the scene. Same explanation for a head injury, if she had one.

I understand your comments about the locked car, but if she were trying to "stage" a scene of foul play, wouldn't she have made a concerted effort to make the scene look that way? As in, she would have left the door wide open or thrown some stuff around to make it look like a struggle occurred?

To me, the locked door means one of two things:
1) She didn't think about it and locked it out of force of habit. (I do it all the time. My AAA membership is worth every penny.)
2) She left to go find help and got lost in the woods, where she ultimately died.

Or, in line with some other threads, 3) An "entity" got her. She had blond hair and blue eyes, too! There must be a connection! I think i just cracked the case, y'all!
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Old 09-11-2015, 05:26 PM   #74
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That's true. She could have locked her car out of habit. Heck, I'm fairly certain those key fob deals were around at the time, so it's not like locking your car required a lot of thought/fine muscle control.

But like I said, while Fred Murray is a horrible person, I don't really see what he or Maura has to gain by such an insanely elaborate ruse. Because faking your death/going on the run...it's not as easy as so many shows/movies make it out to be. You can never make contact with friends/family, you can't work any decent-paying job (because those require proof of identity like a license or a social security number), and well, there's a reason people say money makes the world go round. You kind of have to have it if you're going to get the basic staples of life--food, shelter, and all that--so either Maura is insanely knowledgeable about the Black Market (despite her Middle-Class Suburban Upbringing) or apparently Fred is insanely good at moving around the massive amounts of money needed to sustain her, without attracting any attention from police whatsoever. Fred's a creep but a criminal mastermind? That I have a difficult time believing.
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Old 09-12-2015, 03:43 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPD Yellow
But like I said, while Fred Murray is a horrible person, I don't really see what he or Maura has to gain by such an insanely elaborate ruse. Because faking your death/going on the run...it's not as easy as so many shows/movies make it out to be.
I wouldn't say Fred is a terrible person. Stubborn? Sure. A pain in the ass? Probably. We all grieve differently and he seemingly wants his daughter found. Is he perhaps withholding details that might have been beneficial to the investigation, out of fear of hurting Maura's image? Maybe.

I certainly don't see Maura having the knowledge or resources to pull this off, with or without Fred's help. In the end, you just can't help but ask why. Are people still clinging to the idea she hit Vasi? I just don't see her life being that troubled that she would run away...over credit card fraud?

Look at someone like Whitey Bulger. He had reason to run. But even a career criminal with mob connections and tons of money...still got caught.

How about someone like Michelle Mcmullen? Similar situation as Maura. She was facing some minor charges, probably could have took a plea as a first offense with no jail and a slap on the wrist. Her car was found abandoned in Maryland and no one had a slightest clue what happened.

Turns out she just parked and walked way, started a new life with virtually nothing. She was spotted a couple times and her time on the lam was only a few years before her cover was blown and she was caught, despite being all over the county.

Not easy at all.
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