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Old 08-29-2010, 01:06 PM   #16
Corky Kneivel
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I recall watching the E Special on the EAR. It mentioned that a woman claimed to have seen the EAR roaming around her neighbor's house but she was too afraid to call the cops. Corky, does the book mention anything about this account?
@Zlatko: Sorry for not responding sooner, I didn't notice your question.

I haven't seen the E! "Behind the Rapist" Special about EAR so I'm not sure of the specific instance you mention was covered, however there is a an instance of a couple noticing a prowler in their neighbor's backyard, then lights on in their house, but they didn't call police and report the incident because they knew their neighbors were on vacation. I guess they figure no harm done since the couple wasn't there. The HELL?!? It wasn't common knowledge amongst the public at that time but EAR would commonly prowl around neighborhoods for weeks, often setting up houses before his attacks. He would break in and leave commonly locked garage and side doors unlocked, gambling that the family wouldn't check that nigth before going to bed and he'd have easy access. There's a story related in the book of a family finding strips of bindings left under a couch pillow and there was no reason they should be there. The police were contacted and hid in the house for the next few nights hoping to catch EAR coming back. H eneevr did.

Forgive me for repeating myself but I find it absolutely terrifying that LE has NO IDEA AT ALL WHO THE GUY IS!! They don't even know for sure what he looks like. They can't figure out why the guy would be able to patrol neighborhoods and commmit crimes during the hours, and with the regularity, he did. They have a few assumptions on the car he drove but there were so many conflicting accounts of "suspicious" cars in the neighborhoods that noone can say for sure what EAR was driving at any given time.

One complaint I have with the author is how he criticizes the public for not reporting prolwers or "suspicious activity" in the neighborhood. I know the above example was egregious and those folks should be criticized but Larry Crompton takes it a little too far with blaming the public for lethargy. Especially when he very often ridicules the reports that did come in. Also the public cannot be held responsible when some of the tales recounted in the book illustrating LEs bumbling are almost literally unbelievable. One example is an attack in Rancho Cordova upon a mother and her daughter, while the other daughter was sleeping in her room, that got out of EAR's control. The mother runs out the front door, with EAR right behind her, followed by the youngest daughter, as the next door nieghbor is out on his lawn yelling for the girls to come to his house and a woman across the street watches the whole thing. She sees the victims run right while EAR runs to her left. She thinks EAR is wearing shorts but realizes that he's naked from the waist down. He runs to the bushes on her side of the street and crouches behind them watching the victims go into the neighbor's house. He then stands up and casually walks away down the street. Police, who are 2 blocks away, arrive on the scene in 1 minute. The fail to find a half naked, ski masked & gloved man hiding in the neighborhood or trying to get into his car. They fail to find his pants anywhere in the house. Either he arrived naked from the waist down or he managed to hide them somewhere once the attack went awry.

I've said on other EAR websites (and those sites are doozies let me tell you...the people there are nucking futs), I don't think the EAR was compartmentalized in his day to day life because I don't think he's the type of offender who could be. He expressed such vitriolic hatred for his victims, women especially, that IMO he must have come off that same way with the people unfortunate enough to know him in his "regular life". I think family, schoolmates, tertiary firends, any girlfriends he might have had (although I agree with the profile consensus that he wouldn't be successful at keeping relationships) would all consider him a loner type with some very odd and strongly held opinions. Victim reports that he smelled, that he sometimes stuttered and spoke in a high pitched voice when excited, he spoke through clenched teeth, his complicated and recognizable m.o., and the things he said all lead me to believe that he couldn't ingratiate himself well into normal society.
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Old 08-29-2010, 03:39 PM   #17
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I disagree with a lot of the above opinion. Largely because, well, define 'normal'. You ask 10 different people what the word 'normal' means to them and you will get 10 different answers. It is possible your opinion is right but the fact that you complete disregard the fact that he could have been a jekyll and hyde is what I feel law enforcement did and that is why they haven't found him.

But then again, look at Dennis Rader, BTK, he never was on law enforcement's radar screen either until he inadvertently ended up handing himself to them on a silver platter. Rader had his issues yes, but it was issues that his family did not know anything about. Rader did abuse animals as a child but his family was not aware he was doing that. He went to and graduated high school, served an honorable tour in the U.S. Air Force, and also graduated from community college and from Wichita State University. Rader held several jobs including one as an assembler, a husband and wife that were murdered by him worked for the same company but Rader was never viewed as a suspect or even interviewed in that case. He worked for ADT Home Security from 1974 until 1988 when he was fired and that is how he is believed to have learned how to beat home security systems. The reasons for his firing remain unclear.

Now in other regards Rader would have seemed a 'normal' member of society. He attended Church, was in leadership positions at his church, was a Cub Scout leader, served on several local government boards, as I said before, had held several jobs for lengthy periods of time, had been married for 34 years, had two children that he evidently had good relationships with.

Now of course like anyone that is like Rader, he did have his slip ups but it seems he was able to either because he was so smart or just through pure chance, the incidents where he slipped up did not appear to seriously affect him, in terms of his image. In his job as supervisor for the Park City Compliance Department, he had been reported once for killing a dog when it was deemed not necessary but the complaint went no where. He was also thought of by residents as going out of his way to write residents up and came off as overbearing. Rader had also had restraining orders filed against him, two in the 1980's and one in the 1990's. However it appears he was never prosecuted officially for the crimes, as at the time, stalking laws were much more lax. Rader, while he was in the Air Force, served at stations in Texas, Alabama, Japan, Turkey, Greece and South Korea but no murders in those areas that occurred while he was in the area have been attributed to him.

Anyway, sorry for the long thing on Rader, just that Rader, like EAR could be a person that has his slip ups but overall appears to be normal. It is possible, and Rader was never known to be a suspect or even on law enforcement's radar screen until 2005, so the same could be true of EAR who while I have no evidence but I believe that EAR also was probably in the U.S. Air Force.
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Old 08-29-2010, 04:29 PM   #18
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Despite the common believe that serial killers and thus according to many people sociopaths cannot adjust to situations that deal with authority, this is not true. Dennis Rader did it in the Air Force during his time there from 1966 to 1970 and was discharged honorably. David Berkowitz aka Son of Sam served in the U.S. Army from 1971 to 1974 and also was honorably discharged. Jeffrey Dahmer served in the U.S. Army as well from 1978 to 1981. Dahmer was given only a general discharge as he was discharged largely due to his alcoholism. William Bonin 'the Freeway Killer' served in the U.S. Air Force from 1965 to 1968, serving in Vietnam as a tail gunner and winning decorations and was honorably discharged. Roy Norris who along with Lawrence Wittaker also terrorized southern California in the late 1970's, Norris served in the U.S. Navy from 1965 to 1969 and was honorably discharged. Charles Cullen the so called 'killer nurse' in New Jersey and Pennsylvania served in the U.S. Navy from 1978 to 1984 and was honorably discharged. Leonard Lake of the sick duo of Leonard Lake and Charles Ng, Lake served in the U.S. Marine Corps from 1965 to 1971 including two tours of duty in Vietnam. Gary Ridgeway, the Green River Killer served in the U.S. Navy from 1967 to 1971. Arthur Shawcross served in the U.S. Army from 1965 to 1969 and was honorably discharged. Michael Swango served in the U.S. Marine Corps from 1972 to 1980. Robert Yates served in the U.S. Army from 1976 to 1995.
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Old 09-01-2010, 10:45 AM   #19
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I managed to get the book and I'm almost finished reading it. It's quite an interesting book. Here are some of my observations.

1. I really do think the EAR thrived during a time when the technology didn't connect communities. The nut job went from attacking people from Sacramento to Danville to So-Cal. People probably didn't know this guy was on the loose in distant communities. I'm sure if he tried to pull the things he was doing today, he'd likely be caught.

2. It intrigues me that the guy always managed to strike homes with either a woman alone or a couple. Never did he enter a home with just a male. One would infer that he was constantly looking into homes trying to see if there was a female present. I wonder if more people noticed this guy looking into their houses.

3. I think Corky mentioned this but it's been said that the EAR would start to talk about his mom during the times he was ransacking homes. He'd start saying "Mommy, please, I don't want to do it" and weird stuff like that. Also, he told one of the victims that people made fun of him and that something happened to his face. Either way, the EAR struck me as someone who had a massive chip on his shoulder. It makes me think that he'd have a hard time just blending into society.

Edit 4. I find it interesting how the EAR became more violent as the years went by. The murders he committed in Southern California were quite violent. Why did he stop? One might assume he would have continued his rampage since he was more violent by then.

Last edited by Zlatko; 09-02-2010 at 09:41 PM.
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Old 09-11-2010, 12:56 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soilentgreen
A very good point, since he contacted the victim years after the attack. If he was keeping tabs on her, there's all likelihood that he was also keeping track of other victims (or their surviving family members).

I think there's a high possibility that this guy is still alive (he might not even have a criminal record, or one as a juvenile for burglary) and possibly has a family that has no idea of his crimes.
This is the big question about the EAR. I have a feeling that something might have happened to him. (Died possibly?) From what I read about the EAR, he came off as a very emotionally disturbed person. It'd probably be difficult for him to act normal in society.

I wonder if anyone close to him possibly knew about his identity but didn't say anything to the authorities.
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Old 09-16-2010, 07:00 PM   #21
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The fact that this monster is STILL on death row in California proves just how horribly ridiculous the criminal justice system is there. Of all the people who deserve to die, and to think he gets to sit in jail and flash female prison guards (which apparently he does quite often), get fan mail from very disturbed women, and even get married to an even more disturbed woman makes me sick. The scary part is that his "wife" even refuses to admit he's guilty on message boards. I don't know what is more disturbing: That this type of man exists, or that people are desperate enough to admire him. Arggghh.
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Old 09-16-2010, 11:52 PM   #22
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Who are you talking about Matt? Richard Ramirez? Well to me, Ramirez is a guy really not worth wasting emotion on. The fact of the matter he is alive and it is what it is. He isn't going anywhere and yes California's system is a mess, if they had done away with the death penalty a long time ago, at least people wouldn't have all this hope that someone will be executed someday to satisfy some need for 'justice' that they won't feel even when the person is dead. Ramirez's appeal I believe is only before the U.S. District Court, so he will be alive at least another 5 years before his appeals run out. Basically everyone on California's death row is serving LWOP. Supposedly some guy sentenced to death in 1980, whose appeals ran out just this year, had a death warrant issued and will be executed September 29th but I would be shocked if it was actually allowed to happen. Out of the over 700 people on California's death row, only 9 or 10 of them are actually completely out of appeals.
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Old 09-19-2010, 04:34 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattc
The fact that this monster is STILL on death row in California proves just how horribly ridiculous the criminal justice system is there. Of all the people who deserve to die, and to think he gets to sit in jail and flash female prison guards (which apparently he does quite often), get fan mail from very disturbed women, and even get married to an even more disturbed woman makes me sick. The scary part is that his "wife" even refuses to admit he's guilty on message boards. I don't know what is more disturbing: That this type of man exists, or that people are desperate enough to admire him. Arggghh.
I don't blame you for your disgust, Mattc. Those "very disturbed women" are probably the kind of people who feel like they don't "fit in" anywhere, so they try to compensate for that by sending fan mail to murderous degenerates. At least, that's how I see it.
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Old 09-20-2010, 05:28 PM   #24
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Hey, sorry Kadrmas.. I should have read the thread more thoroughly to know that the book was referring to another night stalker. I agree with you that he's not worth much emotional thought, but as Kane said, it's just really frustrating to continually see people like him (and other particularly heinous criminals) get so much positive attention from "fans." Really disturbing.
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Old 09-20-2010, 06:42 PM   #25
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Well the thing is, as disturbing as it may be, those women have the Constitutional right to write to Ramirez and he has the right to respond to them via written communication and if they choose to meet him in person, that way too. I personally tend not to focus or really get all disgusted about certain groupies writing to a person that I do not really spend any emotional energy concentrating on. I have written many prisoners myself and still do although the difference between me and these groupies, is I was never writing to a prisoner for 'kicks' or because I felt that I needed some emotional attention or that I was a fan of a confessed killer. Rather I wrote and write to people I feel are actually innocent.

That said, the whole groupie thing is really very common in the more bigger names, Ramirez is hardly the only one. Charles Manson, Juan Carona, Doug Clark, Randy Craft, Charles Ng, Tommy Lynn Sells, Bobby Joe Long, David Gore, Kenneth Bianchi, Lawrence Bittaker, so many serial killers both on death row and doing life have similar followings, it is just the way it is. Manson and Carona are doing life in California, Clark, Craft, Ng, Bittaker and Ramirez among others are on death row in California, Sells is on death row in Texas, Long and Gore are on death row in Florida, Bianchi is doing life in Washington State while serving concurrent life sentences in California but he is officially doing his time in Washington State.
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Old 09-20-2010, 09:43 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Corky Kneivel
E! "Behind the Rapist" Special
Is it wrong that I cracked up over this? I'm pretty sure it's very very wrong.
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Old 09-21-2010, 05:03 PM   #27
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Is it wrong that I cracked up over this? I'm pretty sure it's very very wrong.

lol...sorry. i didn't know the real name.
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Old 09-22-2010, 09:57 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kadrmas15
Well the thing is, as disturbing as it may be, those women have the Constitutional right to write to Ramirez and he has the right to respond to them via written communication and if they choose to meet him in person, that way too. I personally tend not to focus or really get all disgusted about certain groupies writing to a person that I do not really spend any emotional energy concentrating on. I have written many prisoners myself and still do although the difference between me and these groupies, is I was never writing to a prisoner for 'kicks' or because I felt that I needed some emotional attention or that I was a fan of a confessed killer. Rather I wrote and write to people I feel are actually innocent.

That said, the whole groupie thing is really very common in the more bigger names, Ramirez is hardly the only one. Charles Manson, Juan Carona, Doug Clark, Randy Craft, Charles Ng, Tommy Lynn Sells, Bobby Joe Long, David Gore, Kenneth Bianchi, Lawrence Bittaker, so many serial killers both on death row and doing life have similar followings, it is just the way it is. Manson and Carona are doing life in California, Clark, Craft, Ng, Bittaker and Ramirez among others are on death row in California, Sells is on death row in Texas, Long and Gore are on death row in Florida, Bianchi is doing life in Washington State while serving concurrent life sentences in California but he is officially doing his time in Washington State.
Yeah, I know what you mean. I have written to a couple of prisoners as well, not because I thought they were innocent, but b/c I was interested in their psychological profile. That being said, I don't think there is anything wrong with inmates getting and writing letters, but I really worry about them being turned into folk heroes and icons. As you know, I'm an attorney, and I see the grief that these victims' families feel, and the victims are often left out of the picture. I guess it is just a sick byproduct of human nature for people to be so intrigued by serial killers; intrigued is fine, but when they start to become heroes and their innocence is questioned, I really get pissed. You are very textbook about all of this, whereas I think I'm coming at the topic from an emotional standpoint. All I know is that if I were a victim's family member, and I saw that the killer of my loved one was getting "fan mail" from groupies, I'd be sick.
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Old 09-22-2010, 11:38 PM   #29
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Well, I will say, if you want to blame anyone for them being turned into 'folk heroes' blame the media and also blame the cops who love to seek attention for these cases despite full well knowing it will also bring a lot of attention to the person they arrested. Yes I do know that newspaper, radio, tv, internet do have an obligation to report basic details and basic facts. But when they plaster these guys faces all over the newspapers with big pictures and big letter headlines or when they plaster their faces all over the television, yeah I would think it would glorify the prisoner and the prisoner is not even the one making them do it.

The reason I am textbook about the whole thing, is quite simple. It is because I am not a victim, I don't like thinking of myself as the victim of anything really. I was not victimized by any of these people nor do I know anyone who was. I do not blame people that were for being sickened by it or being mad about it. It is just something I do not get sickened or mad over. I feel like my emotional energy is better wasted on something than else than being ticked off because some guy I don't know, don't write, that really doesn't have any relevance to me other than me knowing who he is, receives letters from certain people who may be disturbed.

Clearly someone that worships or at least acts like they worship say Richard Ramirez or Charles Manson or people of this nature, yeah, let's say might be missing a few dots on their dominoes. It is very obvious that is the case if someone worships a person like Ramirez or Manson and it is sad and pathetic. But it is their lives and if their lives are that lacking to where they need to glorify such people, that is their choice to make.

Sure, we all know what pain victims go through. I am not speaking from experience or claiming to truly know what they go through but I imagine it would be the worst feeling and the worst experience and the worst time of anyone's life and in particular with murder or other violent crime, I am sure that feeling never goes away.

But I think folks need to remember, that defense attorneys are not the bad guys. I think there is a tendency in our society, especially these days to view defense attorney's as the bad guys and to view prosecutors and cops as the 'heroes' when truth be told, most prosecutors and most cops are just like most defense attorney's, it is not about doing justice or doing right, it is about winning cases. A lot of these prosecutors and cops really don't give a crap about the victims or their families anymore than the defense attorney does, the only difference is the defense attorney gets tarred and feathered for doing their job because they are 'not doing justice' yet the prosecutors and cops get rewarded even if they break their own laws in order to win or do other shady things. I guess that it is why it is hard for me to really have a whole lot of respect for either cops or prosecutors as a group as so many think of them as 'the good guys' and it just isn't true.
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Old 09-23-2010, 01:03 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kadrmas15
Well, I will say, if you want to blame anyone for them being turned into 'folk heroes' blame the media and also blame the cops who love to seek attention for these cases despite full well knowing it will also bring a lot of attention to the person they arrested. Yes I do know that newspaper, radio, tv, internet do have an obligation to report basic details and basic facts. But when they plaster these guys faces all over the newspapers with big pictures and big letter headlines or when they plaster their faces all over the television, yeah I would think it would glorify the prisoner and the prisoner is not even the one making them do it.

The reason I am textbook about the whole thing, is quite simple. It is because I am not a victim, I don't like thinking of myself as the victim of anything really. I was not victimized by any of these people nor do I know anyone who was. I do not blame people that were for being sickened by it or being mad about it. It is just something I do not get sickened or mad over. I feel like my emotional energy is better wasted on something than else than being ticked off because some guy I don't know, don't write, that really doesn't have any relevance to me other than me knowing who he is, receives letters from certain people who may be disturbed.

Clearly someone that worships or at least acts like they worship say Richard Ramirez or Charles Manson or people of this nature, yeah, let's say might be missing a few dots on their dominoes. It is very obvious that is the case if someone worships a person like Ramirez or Manson and it is sad and pathetic. But it is their lives and if their lives are that lacking to where they need to glorify such people, that is their choice to make.

Sure, we all know what pain victims go through. I am not speaking from experience or claiming to truly know what they go through but I imagine it would be the worst feeling and the worst experience and the worst time of anyone's life and in particular with murder or other violent crime, I am sure that feeling never goes away.

But I think folks need to remember, that defense attorneys are not the bad guys. I think there is a tendency in our society, especially these days to view defense attorney's as the bad guys and to view prosecutors and cops as the 'heroes' when truth be told, most prosecutors and most cops are just like most defense attorney's, it is not about doing justice or doing right, it is about winning cases. A lot of these prosecutors and cops really don't give a crap about the victims or their families anymore than the defense attorney does, the only difference is the defense attorney gets tarred and feathered for doing their job because they are 'not doing justice' yet the prosecutors and cops get rewarded even if they break their own laws in order to win or do other shady things. I guess that it is why it is hard for me to really have a whole lot of respect for either cops or prosecutors as a group as so many think of them as 'the good guys' and it just isn't true.
This. I am in full agreement with everything that's been said here. Thumbs up.

Also, "missing a few dots on their dominoes" is something I will definitely be incorporating into my personal vocabulary.
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