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Old 02-04-2009, 06:06 PM   #91
dynoguy88
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I agree that we should wait until we hear the details first before we start banging our heads against the wall over how Bobby and Christi could forget the first 7-8 years of their lives. We just don't know what exactly they were told and what they went through.

I have suspected from the beginning that the Maples always told them that their parents and brother died long ago...maybe in a car accident or something of that nature. They obviously would never find the need to look for these loved ones if they thought they were dead.

But the more obvious cause is what Debbie Baskin said herself in the Unsolved Mysteries segment...

"It's always there. The fact that my parents have stolen my children. It wasn't good enough just to kidnap them. They had to destroy any love the children had for me by making them think I was a monster."

It could be as simple as that. The Maples could very easily filled the children's heads with so many awful lies about their parents (just like they did in the judges chamber) and painted them as the worst human beings that ever walked this planet. If they fooled Judge Corlew, they could have very easily fooled a 7 and 8 year old.

I think everyone's nightmare scenario right now is that Christi and Bobby will want nothing to do with the Baskins after everything they have been told. I'm praying that doesn't happen but if it does, their brother Michael may play a big part in reuniting that family for the better. Surely they could never look at Michael as any sort of villain in this whole mess. And he will be able to vouch for the love Mark and Debbie gave him growing up. Why would they not want to meet up again with their long lost brother and the adopted brother they never met?

Still hoping for the best.
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Old 02-04-2009, 06:10 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by deuce5000
Having done some more searching, it seems that both Baskins attended San Jose State University (I won't post links, but if you search each name individually + "san jose state," links pop up). Jennifer transferred to there from DeAnza college, which is also in the Bay Area.
Gotta love the internet, eh?

Great post, deuce5000!

It really does make you wonder how the Maples sheilded the kids for so long. Being on the opposite coast helps, but how do you prevent them (or anyone they know) from seeing them on UM or finding a missing poster or anything like that? Makes you wonder what their upbringing was really like.

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Family, church, work, and school are the four major areas through which people find their social contacts. Being cut off from their family, having abandoned their church, keeping the children home-schooled, and possibly not having to have a job (or perhaps one at a small company with very few people) might have allowed them to remain hidden in plain sight.
I think you hit the nail right on the head. Keep them out of school, keep their social circle small, and then by the time they grew up I suppose the Maples figured it was highly unlikely they or anyone else would put 2 and 2 together.

Hopefully someone will write a book about the real story some day. I'm sure it would be a fascinating read.
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Old 02-04-2009, 06:16 PM   #93
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I agree, dynoguy. (By the way, I will add to what wiseguy said and add my "congrats." I know this case meant a lot to you.)

Picture this scenario: One of the Baskin kids ask, "What happened to my parents?" Grandpa: "I hate to tell you this, but those aren't your REAL parents. They are your aunt and uncle who were watching you for us. It's really complicated and we didn't want you kids to be hurt. Let's go get some ice cream and then you can pick out a new toy. Just be assured WE are your parents, we love you, and those bad people will never see you again."

Repeat until brainwashed.

The more I think about it, that part of it probably wasn't nearly as hard as staying below the radar.

Ugh.
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Old 02-04-2009, 07:01 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by dynoguy88
I agree that we should wait until we hear the details first before we start banging our heads against the wall over how Bobby and Christi could forget the first 7-8 years of their lives. We just don't know what exactly they were told and what they went through.
Yes I agree with dynoguy I think as a community we are starting to walk the line here folks. I know we all love to speculate and discuss and in most cases its harmless discussion/speculation because the people we are speaking are either still missing or have passed on.

This is a very unique case albeit one that most of us have wanted to have solved for many years. I'm sure we are all elated with the capture of Marvin Maples and the potential reunion between The Baskins and their children but being this is a public forum and there is the off chance that Kristi or Bobby could come here searching for answers I think we need to be very careful in how we approach this case from here on out. Again this case is unique because the victims (not just the families but the victims) are still very much alive and well and special consideration needs to be paid to that.

As some of you might know I am a practicing psychologist and have dealt with cases in the past involving abuse both physical and emotional and make no mistake about it, The Baskin children are victims of emotional trauma here if the story as UM portrays it is accurate (which I believe 99.9% of us believe it is) - Just alone being told on a daily basis by your grandparents (during the period in which they were being "coached") that your parents had molested you would be enough to cause a significant amount of emotional trauma in most people combined with the fact that due to the years of estrangement from their parents, the Baskins never had a chance to refute these claims. This doesn't even get into what we haven't heard yet involving whatever stories The Maples told the children during their twenty years on the run.

Finally its important to understand that the Baskin children have suffered a third trauma in the past 48 hours or so and are probably in a pretty fragile state of mind. I would hope that they aren't searching the internet as their main source of finding out the truth of their past (there are better ways to go about this) but again lets try to be as mindful of this as possible because even though most of us envision a happy reunion between parents and children the fact that Mark and Debbie aren't rushing out to the West Coast to be reunited with their children means that probably Christi and Bobby have a long road ahead of them in order to deal with everything that has happened to them since the late 80s involving the feud between their parents and grandparents.
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Old 02-04-2009, 07:04 PM   #95
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For as happy I am that this is over, I am equally sad. It appears that Kristi and Bobby turned out to be well-adjusted, successful adults, but all of that will be tarnished when they realize their lives were a complete lie.
Second. It's entirely possible they both grew up thinking they were the children of a nice, older couple who were very fortunate to have had children at all (since they would have been "old" to be the parents of Kristi and Bobby). I don't know that the desruction of their lives and everything they thought was true is reason to celebrate.
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Old 02-04-2009, 07:14 PM   #96
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One other thing: I think it's important to remember that all the information about this case - from the UM segment to all the stuff out there on the internet - does come from Mark and Debbie Baskin's point of view. Now that the kids have been found, I'm equally interested to hear exactly what "side" Marvin Maples and his now deceased wife had. As an outsider to family squabbles like these, taking one side's story at face value - as so many have done here - may imperil the truth.

That said, the Baskins have more than just their own assertions and their friends on their side - they also have testimony from licensed social workers, and, of course, the law. Nevertheless, child psychology is an inexact science - just because one story is rehearsed or made up doesn't necessarily mean that there is no truth at all underwriting it. The sheer rarity and desperation of the act of custodial interference by grandparents against their own children gives me pause - why, really, did Marvin Maples and his wife do this?
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Old 02-04-2009, 07:34 PM   #97
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One other thing: I think it's important to remember that all the information about this case - from the UM segment to all the stuff out there on the internet - does come from Mark and Debbie Baskin's point of view. Now that the kids have been found, I'm equally interested to hear exactly what "side" Marvin Maples and his now deceased wife had. As an outsider to family squabbles like these, taking one side's story at face value - as so many have done here - may imperil the truth.

That said, the Baskins have more than just their own assertions and their friends on their side - they also have testimony from licensed social workers, and, of course, the law. Nevertheless, child psychology is an inexact science - just because one story is rehearsed or made up doesn't necessarily mean that there is no truth at all underwriting it. The sheer rarity and desperation of the act of custodial interference by grandparents against their own children gives me pause - why, really, did Marvin Maples and his wife do this?
The Maple family side with Marvin and Sandra; they keep telling us to look at the other side of things. But some of you will remember what happened on our old thread. Two Maple relatives calling themselves Dipahead and Spit^fire raged at us for being one-sided, but when asked to present their side they gave unsatisfactory answers, wouldn't answer key questions - such as why didn't the Maples do anything to protect Michael from abusive parents - or didn't answer at all but simply ranted and raved. As a result, the thread degenerated into backbiting and squabbling and ended up being locked.

Recently there was blueraider1 who posted the other side of things to the Murfreesboro Post. The message was deleted but it survives on the new thread we have which is devoted to the Baskin case. Blueraider1's response was more intelligently put than anything Spit^fire or Dipahead said, but its reliability was questionable, nor did blueraider1 say where he/she got the information from or how he/she was associated with the case. And the fact that it was deleted makes it all the more suspect.

Another problem which the Baskins and their children will have to deal with is the Maple family. I imagine the Maple family is not pleased Marvin has been caught, but I'm more worried about their interference in the healing and reunion process. It could be that once the trial is underway, things come out etc, they may reconsider their position - but I wouldn't bank on it.
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Old 02-04-2009, 07:35 PM   #98
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Finally its important to understand that the Baskin children have suffered a third trauma in the past 48 hours or so and are probably in a pretty fragile state of mind. I would hope that they aren't searching the internet as their main source of finding out the truth of their past (there are better ways to go about this) but again lets try to be as mindful of this as possible because even though most of us envision a happy reunion between parents and children the fact that Mark and Debbie aren't rushing out to the West Coast to be reunited with their children means that probably Christi and Bobby have a long road ahead of them in order to deal with everything that has happened to them since the late 80s involving the feud between their parents and grandparents.
The heavy weight of wondering if the children are still alive is finally off their shoulders. Still, they don't know when a reunion will happen and are apprehensive about seeing them. Mark said...

“They have been totally brainwashed for 20 years, and it will take a while to erase that,” Baskin said. “We don't know if they will even recognize us as their parents.”

The Baskin's are thinking of Christi and Bobby first. They know their lives are going to be turned upside-down again and they want to soften the blow as much as possible by not forcing themselves upon them. At this point, they're just praying that Christi and Bobby will even attempt to listen to their side of the story.

I think they're handling this the right way even though you just know they want run up to them and scoop them in their arms.
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Old 02-04-2009, 09:05 PM   #99
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Actually, Bobby and Kristi have 2 brothers. Debbie and Mark adopted a son named Paul.

As far as Bobby and Kristi not remembering their previous life, I will say this: I believe there is a condition, for lack of a better term and I'm not sure what it's called, that blocks out in the mind anything that might be considered traumatic, so it makes it easier to cope. that may have been what happened here. The events took their toll on the children, and it was too much for the brain to take, so the events were blocked out and the children saw the Maples as loving parents. Not saying for sure that's what happened here, but I think it's pretty likely.
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Old 02-04-2009, 09:22 PM   #100
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I'll be curious to hear exactly what it is they do remember. Do they remember anything about their real parents and brother? Do they know they didn't always live in California?

As someone else mentioned, it will be crazy if it turns out they were in the SF Bay Area the whole time. It is a big area so easy to get lost in the crowd, but also all the more eyes to be seen by.

That's weird because I lived in the Bay Area in the 90's and to think I might have walked right by Bobby and Kristy and never known.
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Old 02-04-2009, 09:33 PM   #101
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Personally I've always subscribed to the "alive, but brainwashed" theory. I never believed the Maples would abduct the children only to kill them, unless they were being closed in on and decided on a murder-suicide, and if they were that close to capture, the details would be known. I can see the grandparents telling the children some story, such as they were not their real parents, had died, or were bad people. The children wouldn't be expected to remember every detail of how they came to be with their grandparents the way the parents told it and could well believe the parents voluntarily gave them up or they were taken for their own good.

Such was the case with Steven Stayner. His abductor claimed his parents instructed him to "pick up" (not kidnap) Steven because they couldn't keep him anymore. Over the years he pretended to have phone conversations with Steven's parents and told Steven they didn't want him, that his father had died, and the family split up. Steven was shocked to learn things were not as he had been told.

Nevertheless, to forget, at that age, your WHOLE earlier life including the fact that you'd had parents or a younger brother, is what I find staggering. (Not unbelievable, just hard to imagine.) Perhaps memories will return when they are shown pictures and other personal objects to remind them.

Why the Maples would side with the grandparents or what the other side of such a story could possibly be is also extremely difficult to imagine, especially if events occurred as described on Unsolved Mysteries.

Best of luck to the innocent victims in all this.
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Old 02-04-2009, 10:24 PM   #102
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Does anyone know the date of the original broadcast of this story on UM? Is there anywhere online to view it?
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Old 02-04-2009, 10:57 PM   #103
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Does anyone know the date of the original broadcast of this story on UM?
February 7, 1990.

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Is there anywhere online to view it?
No.
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Old 02-04-2009, 11:14 PM   #104
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I've sat back and watched as you people bad mouthed my family, but this takes the cake. Having only one side of this story, have you stopped to consider how your hateful, EVIL comments effect the family of the people you're spouting off about? Obviously not. You all badgered my sisters, Dipahead & Spit^Fire, for details that they were not in a position to give you and accused them of knowing more than they did. Not that they need to answer to any of you, anyway. This case is NOTHING to you other than NEWS. This is our FAMILY. Keep your speculation to yourselves.
This is a public story. Just so we're clear: Does the Maple family condone kidnapping? If the FBI is after them, somehow I don't think this is just a family matter that we don't understand. Of course, we only have "one side of this story."
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Old 02-04-2009, 11:14 PM   #105
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I've sat back and watched as you people bad mouthed my family, but this takes the cake. Having only one side of this story, have you stopped to consider how your hateful, EVIL comments effect the family of the people you're spouting off about? Obviously not. You all badgered my sisters, Dipahead & Spit^Fire, for details that they were not in a position to give you and accused them of knowing more than they did. Not that they need to answer to any of you, anyway. This case is NOTHING to you other than NEWS. This is our FAMILY. Keep your speculation to yourselves.
It saddens me that you think this is all about news. We all CARE ABOUT EVERY SINGLE MISSING CHILD. It is not about you or your family, it is about the precious children lost all these years to their real parents.
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