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Old 12-02-2010, 10:17 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keith warren
To address your comments concerning clothing..... They were not cloths own by Keith. We are talking the end of July. The clothing on Keith's body were not the same items given back to family. You have not taken the time or effort to read the information given before you give your opinion. The items that Keith had on his body were eventually destroyed by the police and the reason given to the family by the investigating officer was that they had to much decomposition on them and had to be destroyed. As mention in previous postings Keith had on white tennis shoes in the pictures, the investigating officer gave back to the family brown constructions boots that were in fact own by keith as mention int the UM piece. The items the actress is looking through in the segment are the actually items given back to the family.

Secondly, the family never received the complete rope but portions of it.
1) Ok...different clothing was returned to the family,rather the clothes that he was wearing in the crime scene photos. Isn't most likely explanation for that just an error at the coroner's office? Or frankly,if the clothes that he had on were expensive and missing, theft?

What does the wrong clothing "prove" about the manner of death?

2) The reason that I mentioned the rope wasn't that it was not given back to the family. My question was whose rope was it? If the rope was something that belonged to the family or friend, then it's highly unlikely that this was a homicide and more likely the suicide or accidental death that it appears to be.

And I have seen the UM segments several times and read a few accounts online. Is there on this thread that wasn't covered in them? And,if so, what's the origin of that information?
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Old 12-02-2010, 10:28 PM   #137
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Answers:

2) Body never made it to corners office. Police had access and control of all articles of clothing.

As for the rope, you give great reasoning as to the connection to the situation. The only problem is conveniently enough the police did no investigation. Maybe if someone went to the house where the 911 call first came from and possibly ask questions or even did a visual of the house maybe this discussion would not exist
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Old 12-02-2010, 10:55 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keith warren
Answers:

2) Body never made it to corners office. Police had access and control of all articles of clothing.

As for the rope, you give great reasoning as to the connection to the situation. The only problem is conveniently enough the police did no investigation. Maybe if someone went to the house where the 911 call first came from and possibly ask questions or even did a visual of the house maybe this discussion would not exist
1) You need to rewatch the segment. The body went to the morgue and then it went to the funeral home that the police chose for the family. The clothes would have been removed either at the morgue or at the funeral home. How would get into police custody until they been removed from the body?

2) The rope: Regardless of who did an investigation, the police or a private investigator, the origin of the rope would crucial to determining whether or not this was a murder or a suicide/accident. If the rope belonged to the Warren family or a friend, then it would likely indicate suicide/accident.

If it did not, then this would indicate that this might be something suspicious.
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Old 12-02-2010, 11:06 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by cocytus
1) You need to rewatch the segment. The body went to the morgue and then it went to the funeral home that the police chose for the family. The clothes would have been removed either at the morgue or at the funeral home. How would get into police custody until they been removed from the body?

2) The rope: Regardless of who did an investigation, the police or a private investigator, the origin of the rope would crucial to determining whether or not this was a murder or a suicide/accident. If the rope belonged to the Warren family or a friend, then it would likely indicate suicide/accident.

If it did not, then this would indicate that this might be something suspicious.
The body went straight to the funeral home chosen by the police. It was the funeral home vehicle that picked up the body. When Keith's uncle arrived in MD that same night to claim the body the police department directed him to the funeral while at the same time giving him the items of clothing. FYI the county morgue is located in Baltimore MD, which is about 45min drive one way from the scene. The corner has since admitted his office did not physically view the body but received the information over the phone from investigation officer.

The rope did not come from the home of the Warren/Couey family. Keith was missing for 24hrs prior to his body being found. His body was found on a Thursday and the last time his mother saw him alive was the Tuesday prior. Also the corner gave himself away when he said he had spoken to victims sister and the sisters stated that the victim was depressed and missing for several days. The only sister Keith has is Sherri and to this day she is adamant that no one from the corners office spoke to her. In fact on the day the report was written Sherri was in another state over 200 miles away.
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Old 12-02-2010, 11:18 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keith warren
The body went straight to the funeral home chosen by the police. It was the funeral home vehicle that picked up the body. When Keith's uncle arrived in MD that same night to claim the body the police department directed him to the funeral while at the same time giving him the items of clothing. FYI the county morgue is located in Baltimore MD, which is about 45min drive one way from the scene. The corner has since admitted his office did not physically view the body but received the information over the phone from investigation officer.

The rope did not come from the home of the Warren/Couey family. Keith was missing for 24hrs prior to his body being found. His body was found on a Thursday and the last time his mother saw him alive was the Tuesday prior. Also the corner gave himself away when he said he had spoken to victims sister and the sisters stated that the victim was depressed and missing for several days. The only sister Keith has is Sherri and to this day she is adamant that no one from the corners office spoke to her. In fact on the day the report was written Sherri was in another state over 200 miles away.
1) What's the source of your information on that? According to the segment the body was transported to the morgue and then to a funeral home.

2) What's your source of information on the origin of the rope?

3) What's with all of the extra details? Maybe the coroner made a mistake, which given the numbers of murders,suicides,accidents and unattended deaths in the Metro Washington DC area, is certainly believable. Or maybe they were lying to cover up for something that they didn't do,were supposed to have done but didn't.

Bureaucracies make mistakes EVERY minute of every of day. Part of the reason is that they don't higher the best and brightest people, primarily because they can't afford to them well. Expecting perfection from a government office is ridiculous and a recipe for disappointment.
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Old 12-02-2010, 11:19 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cocytus
1) What's the source of your information on that? According to the segment the body was transported to the morgue and then to a funeral home.

2) What's your source of information on the origin of the rope?

3) What's with all of the extra details? Maybe the coroner made a mistake, which given the numbers of murders,suicides,accidents and unattended deaths in the Metro Washington DC area, is certainly believable. Or maybe they were lying to cover up for something that they didn't do,were supposed to have done but didn't.

Bureaucracies make mistakes EVERY minute of every of day. Part of the reason is that they don't higher the best and brightest people, primarily because they can't afford to them well. Expecting perfection from a government office is ridiculous and a recipe for disappointment.
My source is Sherri Warren
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Old 12-02-2010, 11:32 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cocytus
1) What's the source of your information on that?...
"Keith Warren" has been posting here for a while. He/she is a friend of the Warren family. Most people on the UM message board are very respectful and non-confrontational with victim's friends and family because we want them to feel welcome here. We care about the victims and want their cases to be solved. I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask questions, and hopefully posters connected to cases are willing to answer. However, I feel like you need to back off a little (not that KW can't defend him/herself). I can guarantee that KW knows more about the case than you do.
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Old 12-03-2010, 12:43 AM   #143
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"Keith Warren" has been posting here for a while. He/she is a friend of the Warren family. Most people on the UM message board are very respectful and non-confrontational with victim's friends and family because we want them to feel welcome here. We care about the victims and want their cases to be solved. I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask questions, and hopefully posters connected to cases are willing to answer. However, I feel like you need to back off a little (not that KW can't defend him/herself). I can guarantee that KW knows more about the case than you do.
Really? Sooo...anybody can come on here, say that they are anybody,not provide proof of their identity and everything they say is the truth? That's a pretty low standard...even for an Internet forum.

If this person is who he/she claims to be...why not simply prove that? What purpose is served by spreading potentially spurious and/useless information on here? Other than to allow a strange person to get their "jollies" from running people in circles?

I've been asking questions...not claiming facts. The facts that I have used I can support w/ research and sources. That's a common standard in most places. If asking people to back up claims that present as factual is "insulting", then what's the use of bothering to ask anyone anything?
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Old 12-03-2010, 05:29 AM   #144
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It says right in the segment that the body wasn't sent to the morgue.
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Old 12-03-2010, 08:12 AM   #145
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It says right in the segment that the body wasn't sent to the morgue.
I would like to thank "Aspostapler" for validation and "Nowheregirl" for support. My question is how would one "prove" who they are or not? For someone to make light of the tragedy of a love ones death is a unspeakable act and one I have not engaged in. Some people like to create and live in controversy. Sadly the Warren/Couey family have battled continued unjustifiable doubt from the Montgomery County police department such as the one from "cocytus" for the past 24yrs. No matter how much information they provided to the officials they still got now where. Maybe half the energy put into trying to prove the family wrong was putting into bringing justice for the family back 24yrs ago then we would not be having this conversation. Just as I have answered "cocytus" questions with factual information he/she continue to challenge the accuracy. This mirrors the situation of how Mrs. Couey (Keith's mom) continued to bring information to the police and Mrs.Couey continued to get stonewalled. This is so sad.
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Old 12-03-2010, 08:47 AM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keith warren
I would like to thank "Aspostapler" for validation and "Nowheregirl" for support. My question is how would one "prove" who they are or not? For someone to make light of the tragedy of a love ones death is a unspeakable act and one I have not engaged in. Some people like to create and live in controversy. Sadly the Warren/Couey family have battled continued unjustifiable doubt from the Montgomery County police department such as the one from "cocytus" for the past 24yrs. No matter how much information they provided to the officials they still got now where. Maybe half the energy put into trying to prove the family wrong was putting into bringing justice for the family back 24yrs ago then we would not be having this conversation. Just as I have answered "cocytus" questions with factual information he/she continue to challenge the accuracy. This mirrors the situation of how Mrs. Couey (Keith's mom) continued to bring information to the police and Mrs.Couey continued to get stonewalled. This is so sad.
Hmm...
Even if personal privacy were a concern,which apparently it is not because you are claiming to be a friend of the family when no one asked your identity, couldn't you provide:

1) The name and contact information of a police officer looking into this case?
2) A police report number.
3) The name and phone number of newspaper reporter looking into the case.
4) The name and address of the funeral home that apparently mishandled this situation.
5) Details of the exact "mistakes" that are not shown in the segment nor revealed in the newspaper accounts.

Any of those would and could prove that the "factual "claims that you are making are valid and not either fabrications, or mistakes of your own. They would also not reveal your identity in any manner as they would easily be available to any family member or concerned friend.

The surest sign that someone is attempting to deceive is that they become defensive,sarcastic or angry when they are asked simple questions. If asking you provide a credible source (or sources) for the "facts" (not opinions) that you have posted is seen as being "disrespectful" to the victim or their family, then doesn't that likely indicate that you are person that is concerned w/ being "disrespected" and not they?

The bottom line is: Keith Warren's death occurred very close to the nation's capital. It's almost certain the Department of Justice has looked into this case, given the publicity it has aroused, for potential civil rights violations. If DOJ has not decided to come into the case, isn't that simply a sign that while they may believe that local police mishandled some aspects of it, that they agree w/ the conclusions reached?
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Old 12-03-2010, 09:28 AM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cocytus
Hmm...
Even if personal privacy were a concern,which apparently it is not because you are claiming to be a friend of the family when no one asked your identity, couldn't you provide:

1) The name and contact information of a police officer looking into this case?

Officer Luther Leverette Wheaton/Glenmont Police department

2) A police report number.

forthcoming

3) The name and phone number of newspaper reporter looking into the case.

washington times, Channel 7 new (stated in previous post), Jet magazine etc

4) The name and address of the funeral home that apparently mishandled this situation.
Collins funeral home 500 University Blvd West, Wheaton Md


5) Details of the exact "mistakes" that are not shown in the segment nor revealed in the newspaper accounts.

Any of those would and could prove that the "factual "claims that you are making are valid and not either fabrications, or mistakes of your own. They would also not reveal your identity in any manner as they would easily be available to any family member or concerned friend.

The surest sign that someone is attempting to deceive is that they become defensive,sarcastic or angry when they are asked simple questions. If asking you provide a credible source (or sources) for the "facts" (not opinions) that you have posted is seen as being "disrespectful" to the victim or their family, then doesn't that likely indicate that you are person that is concerned w/ being "disrespected" and not they?

The bottom line is: Keith Warren's death occurred very close to the nation's capital. It's almost certain the Department of Justice has looked into this case, given the publicity it has aroused, for potential civil rights violations. If DOJ has not decided to come into the case, isn't that simply a sign that while they may believe that local police mishandled some aspects of it, that they agree w/ the conclusions reached?
I have no reason to be defensive or sarcastic. I believe you are projecting.
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Old 12-03-2010, 09:43 AM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nohwheregirl
"Keith Warren" has been posting here for a while. He/she is a friend of the Warren family. Most people on the UM message board are very respectful and non-confrontational with victim's friends and family because we want them to feel welcome here. We care about the victims and want their cases to be solved. I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask questions, and hopefully posters connected to cases are willing to answer. However, I feel like you need to back off a little (not that KW can't defend him/herself). I can guarantee that KW knows more about the case than you do.
I completely agree with this. We want friends and relatives of the victims to feel comfortable coming on here to discuss their loved ones case and not feel uneasy about doing so. If someone says they are a friend or family member, we take it at face value. I personally do not need any proof of who they say they are and there is no reason to pressure them for said proof.
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Old 12-03-2010, 10:12 AM   #149
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I have no reason to be defensive or sarcastic. I believe you are projecting.
I have no reason to be sarcastic as I believe that this case was either an accidental death or a suicide.

1) There is no "Glenmont Police Department" in Maryland. There is a Wheaton-Glenmont Police Station
Here's the link:http://maryland.hometownlocator.com/...%20station.cfm

There's a Montgomery County Police Department. Is that what you meant?

2) A quick Google search reveals the only Maryland police officer named Luther Leverette is actually a FORMER officer.

Here's the link:
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-525818.html

3) Jet Magazine has this 1994 story: (WARNING: There are graphic photos of the victim displayed on here.)

http://books.google.com/books?id=Mz0...page&q&f=false

There's nothing that comes up after 1994 related to Jet.

Channel 7 News (assuming that you mean WJLA) has nothing on their website nor in their available archives.
Here's their link:http://www.tbd.com/abc7/

4) There is a Francis J. Collins Funeral Home at the address you've given. But there's no information on the Internet (no newspaper accounts,articles,etc) linking Mr. Warren to this business.

Which is very odd as you would have thought someone would have written or created something linking the two given the time that has passed since this occurred.
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Old 12-03-2010, 10:16 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by Hambone2421
I completely agree with this. We want friends and relatives of the victims to feel comfortable coming on here to discuss their loved ones case and not feel uneasy about doing so. If someone says they are a friend or family member, we take it at face value. I personally do not need any proof of who they say they are and there is no reason to pressure them for said proof.
If they are who they claim they are, then they shouldn't have any problems if someone asks them simple questions. I can see if probing personal questions were asked, but proof of your identity is hardly that.
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