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Old 03-30-2017, 09:21 PM   #106
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Is that ME to be trusted? I feel like they really needed a second opinion.
I always thought the ME, Lester Adelson, seemed pretty eccentric in his UM interview, but for what it's worth, it seems like he was a fairly respected guy in his field:
http://journals.lww.com/amjforensicm..._2006_.13.aspx

But I still think Adelson could have missed something and a second opinion would have been nice.
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Old 03-30-2017, 09:26 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by RobinW
I always thought the ME, Lester Adelson, seemed pretty eccentric in his UM interview, but for what it's worth, it seems like he was a fairly respected guy in his field:
http://journals.lww.com/amjforensicm..._2006_.13.aspx

But I still think Adelson could have missed something and a second opinion would have been nice.
If his birth year is correct, he would have been 66 or 67 years old when he performed the autopsy and 73 or 74 when he appeared on UM. I certainly believe that it's possible he missed something or didn't make use of all of his resources when testing for drugs and alcohol.
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Old 03-30-2017, 09:58 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by RobinW
I always thought the ME, Lester Adelson, seemed pretty eccentric in his UM interview, but for what it's worth, it seems like he was a fairly respected guy in his field:
http://journals.lww.com/amjforensicm..._2006_.13.aspx

But I still think Adelson could have missed something and a second opinion would have been nice.
Damn, he died in 2006.

Since Kurt was found days later, I wonder if it was hard for him to get a proper report? I feel like if he found Kurt earlier, then maybe he would've had a better finding? I'm not sure.

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I certainly believe that it's possible he missed something or didn't make use of all of his resources when testing for drugs and alcohol.
This is what I think also. Especially if he had outdated methods.
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Old 09-26-2018, 10:48 AM   #109
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This is such a fascinating case. I live in Cleveland and am very close to Newburgh Hts. I drove by there everyday on my way to work. I am so tempted to go down there and raid the police station. Ha! My opinion about what happened is simple. Kurt was drinking all day. Not only that but he was drinking Everclear. Ouch! He stepped up his level of drinking when he went to the house party. He got reeling drunk. The residents of the house...Debbie Sams and Clayton Sams dealt with the situation of Kurt being sick by having him sleep it off in the basement. Kurt wasn't getting better. After a few days of covering for Kurt in the hope he would rebound and then head back home...he perished. I am thinking he lasted about 3 days. The residents freaked. They came up with a plan to ditch the body. They didn't want to get into trouble. Done. And so damn sad. I have researched this case and located Debbie Sams and her brother Clayton on Facebook. That's right. Both of them are on Facebook. It's incredible. Debbie's last name is now Seymour.

There are even a few photos posted by Clayton on one of his pages that are from the early 80's. You see a young Debbie and Clayton in one of the photos standing in the house where this happened!!! Then in the comment section of the Facebook photo you have Debbie saying this:

"that was a long time ago... man I'm glad we got out of there...lol"

...then Clayton responds: "me too."

Creepy as hell. Wow.

Does anyone have the guts to reach out to one of them??? I thought about it but didn't have the courage. Chances are that even if you did reach out to them there is no way they would respond. That is my opinion.
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Old 09-26-2018, 05:01 PM   #110
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This is such a fascinating case. I live in Cleveland and am very close to Newburgh Hts. I drove by there everyday on my way to work. I am so tempted to go down there and raid the police station. Ha! My opinion about what happened is simple. Kurt was drinking all day. Not only that but he was drinking Everclear. Ouch! He stepped up his level of drinking when he went to the house party. He got reeling drunk. The residents of the house...Debbie Sams and Clayton Sams dealt with the situation of Kurt being sick by having him sleep it off in the basement. Kurt wasn't getting better. After a few days of covering for Kurt in the hope he would rebound and then head back home...he perished. I am thinking he lasted about 3 days. The residents freaked. They came up with a plan to ditch the body. They didn't want to get into trouble. Done. And so damn sad. I have researched this case and located Debbie Sams and her brother Clayton on Facebook. That's right. Both of them are on Facebook. It's incredible. Debbie's last name is now Seymour.

There are even a few photos posted by Clayton on one of his pages that are from the early 80's. You see a young Debbie and Clayton in one of the photos standing in the house where this happened!!! Then in the comment section of the Facebook photo you have Debbie saying this:

"that was a long time ago... man I'm glad we got out of there...lol"

...then Clayton responds: "me too."

Creepy as hell. Wow.

Does anyone have the guts to reach out to one of them??? I thought about it but didn't have the courage. Chances are that even if you did reach out to them there is no way they would respond. That is my opinion.
Well, you're probably right.
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Old 09-26-2018, 05:47 PM   #111
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Can you post the facebook links? Maybe we can come up a message to send and I'd be willing to send it.

Any ideas?
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Old 09-26-2018, 05:47 PM   #112
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Can you post the facebook links? Maybe we can come up a message to send and I'd be willing to send it.

Any ideas?
This. Why not link it? I pm you
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Old 09-26-2018, 06:25 PM   #113
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This. Why not link it? I pm you
Me 3
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Old 09-27-2018, 11:13 AM   #114
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Here is the Facebook link: https://www.facebook.com/deborah.seymour.737?fref=ufi

Crazy right? I think that Debbie is the one referred to as Susan in the UM episode. There are a few questions I'm sure a lot of people want to ask this lady. Am I right?
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Old 09-27-2018, 04:43 PM   #115
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Here is the Facebook link: https://www.facebook.com/deborah.seymour.737?fref=ufi

Crazy right? I think that Debbie is the one referred to as Susan in the UM episode. There are a few questions I'm sure a lot of people want to ask this lady. Am I right?
Bummer Kurt died partying with a bootleg Roseanne.

Thanks for the link, very interesting, but I doubt she's going to answer any questions.
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Old 10-04-2018, 10:34 AM   #116
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I used to believe Kurt never left and was in the basement the whole time. Now that just sounds stupid to me.

Even if they wanted to avoid any trouble from calling 911 or taking him to a hospital they could have taken him to his house, dropped him off on the porch, knocked, and got out of there.

Trying to nurse him in the basement then dumping his body behind your house seems like the dumbest course of action.
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Old 10-04-2018, 02:03 PM   #117
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I used to believe Kurt never left and was in the basement the whole time. Now that just sounds stupid to me.

Even if they wanted to avoid any trouble from calling 911 or taking him to a hospital they could have taken him to his house, dropped him off on the porch, knocked, and got out of there.

Trying to nurse him in the basement then dumping his body behind your house seems like the dumbest course of action.
Some people just ain't ****
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Old 10-06-2018, 09:04 AM   #118
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Trying to nurse him in the basement then dumping his body behind your house seems like the dumbest course of action.
Well, these are teenagers/young adults involved in this. They don't tend to make the smartest decisions.
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Old 10-06-2018, 09:06 AM   #119
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Does anyone else think it's possible that the "Detroit Crazy" was the adult who agreed to buy the Everclear for Kurt? Maybe that's how he was able to guess that they'd find him dead. Just a thought.
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Old 10-06-2018, 10:30 AM   #120
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Does anyone else think it's possible that the "Detroit Crazy" was the adult who agreed to buy the Everclear for Kurt? Maybe that's how he was able to guess that they'd find him dead. Just a thought.
Certainly a possibility there or maybe the everclear was already at the party and "Detroit Crazy" knew that Kurt had consumed quite a bit. Nonetheless did the police ever investigate him? Or if they did, not nearly enough?
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