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Old 10-04-2013, 08:49 AM   #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercy1825
Is there any credible assessments of this case that come anywhere close to stating they are positive Penny is the reason this happened? Where or should I say how did an above poster come to the dubious conclusion that the Fbi believes penny is involved?

I am not totally dismissing the possibility, but to indict a deceased mother for the tragic disappearance of her daughter using words like "positive" is very distasteful and somewhat offensive.

With the Ramseys many investigators and others have stated and written books about their suspicions and many believe the Ramseys to be guilty, most notably Dr Cyril wecht. Perhaps experienced investigators can come to such conclusions and provide validity to us opinionated armchairs. In the absence of a creditable basis for such an inflammatory position, I ask only to consider how crushing it would be to lose a child in this tragic way and then be scrutinised and blamed business


there is an article that said she failed a lie detector test and the police were interested in talking to her on her deathbed. She was also known for having people over late at night. Also, if her kids were really up at 3 am and opened the door by herself then she is a pretty terrible parent
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Old 10-04-2013, 07:16 PM   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercy1825
Is there any credible assessments of this case that come anywhere close to stating they are positive Penny is the reason this happened? Where or should I say how did an above poster come to the dubious conclusion that the Fbi believes penny is involved?

I am not totally dismissing the possibility, but to indict a deceased mother for the tragic disappearance of her daughter using words like "positive" is very distasteful and somewhat offensive.

With the Ramseys many investigators and others have stated and written books about their suspicions and many believe the Ramseys to be guilty, most notably Dr Cyril wecht. Perhaps experienced investigators can come to such conclusions and provide validity to us opinionated armchairs. In the absence of a creditable basis for such an inflammatory position, I ask only to consider how crushing it would be to lose a child in this tragic way and then be scrutinised and blamed business
https://www.facebook.com/note.php?no...14554508586975

This is a link to a Gallup Herald article that elaborates on the FBI's interest in speaking to Penny Cayedito again, as well as segment interviewee Det. Marty Esquibel's belief that Penny knew who took Anthonette.

I don't think Penny Cayedito was responsible for her daughter's disappearance, but I think it is possible she could have known who was, and may not have appreciated the law enforcement pressure that was undoubtedly on her.
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Old 10-04-2013, 08:27 PM   #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MegtheEgg86
https://www.facebook.com/note.php?no...14554508586975

This is a link to a Gallup Herald article that elaborates on the FBI's interest in speaking to Penny Cayedito again, as well as segment interviewee Det. Marty Esquibel's belief that Penny knew who took Anthonette.

I don't think Penny Cayedito was responsible for her daughter's disappearance, but I think it is possible she could have known who was, and may not have appreciated the law enforcement pressure that was undoubtedly on her.
This might already have been mentioned but if you scroll to the bottom, there are a few comments, some of which are from Anthonette's sister Wendy, which are linked from her Facebook account. She would be 32 today and she looks very much like her mother Penny.

https://www.facebook.com/wendy.montoyalawson
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Old 10-04-2013, 08:37 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by dynoguy88
This might already have been mentioned but if you scroll to the bottom, there are a few comments, some of which are from Anthonette's sister Wendy, which are linked from her Facebook account. She would be 32 today and she looks very much like her mother Penny.

https://www.facebook.com/wendy.montoyalawson
I was just about to post this! Seems that she is angered by the portrayal of her parents in the article.
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Old 10-04-2013, 08:59 PM   #230
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I was just about to post this! Seems that she is angered by the portrayal of her parents in the article.
I think I would probably be upset, too--even if I had an inkling that involvement was possible. I think few people deeply desire that their families' hardships be honked out all over various media and I can understand her reaction.

I'm not sure what LE knows, though, if anything. As I mentioned earlier, I don't think she was involved, but I do think it is possible she may have had an idea about who was.
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Old 10-04-2013, 09:01 PM   #231
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No offense but her daughter not exactly an impartial judge
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Old 10-05-2013, 12:31 PM   #232
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I think I would probably be upset, too--even if I had an inkling that involvement was possible. I think few people deeply desire that their families' hardships be honked out all over various media and I can understand her reaction.
Not only that, but she witnessed the abduction herself at the age 5. I imagine that sight would haunt a person for the rest of their life.

I feel awful for her.
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Old 01-15-2014, 12:02 AM   #233
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Something I just thought of in regards to the 911 call.

I wonder if maybe Anthonette was actually being held in Gallop at the time of the call, but was forced by her abductors to call 911 and tell them she was in Albuquerque as a way to throw off the investigation. It should be common sense that the 911 operator is going to connect you to the closest police station, but not everyone is logical or smart lol.
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Old 03-11-2014, 06:17 PM   #234
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Joe is such a common name, perhaps they just took a chance.
That is my thoughts too. Joe is a common name and one of those ones like 'Smith' and 'John' that kind of just comes in your head when you are making a fake name. it could just be a coincidence there actually was a uncle Joe
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Old 03-11-2014, 06:29 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by ezpkns34
My thoughts on this one (this will be pretty long & may be a bit scattered/haphazard):

- Phone call to the police where seemingly the missing girl says her name like 5 times then says she's in Albuquerque (Gallup PD seems to be who got the call, a town 2 hrs west of Albuquerque)

- Not sure on the phone call, would need to know more details to make any educated assumptions. She says she's in Albuquerque, but Gallup PD gets the call. Is a 911 dispatcher really gonna relay the call back to the girl's hometown? That tells me that either the call was a hoax or the girl thinks she's in Albuquerque for some reason when she's still in her hometown. The fact that the police don't seem too interested in the call & that seemingly nobody else but the mother say that the voice is Anthonette's leads me to think the call is more than likely a hoax (maybe a mother's intuition is that good, I dunno, but when interviewed she seemed pretty defiant in her belief that the voice was Anthonette's and I haven't heard of anyone else in the family backing that claim)


- 4 years after she went missing, a waitress in Nevada says she waited on a trio of people: a pair of unkempt people and a 14-15 year old girl who looked like Anthonette. Girl knocked silverware off the table & grabbed the waitress' hand after she put the silverware back on the table. What restaurant has a 1 fork per person rule? What waitress would take a utensil that was on the ground & put it back on the table for use? Wouldn't it be customary at even the grimiest of diners to take the dirty utensil away & give them a new, clean one?

- Don't think Anthonette was the girl at the diner. Not sure the diner story is even real. Multiple things about it seem off to me: waitress giving back dirty silverware & kidnappers not only allowing their victim out in public but allowing her to write on a napkin unsupervised? Not buying it as a kidnapping. Almost certainly either made up/misremembered event by the waitress or a case of a child being abused by her parents (outside chance of this being a prank/hoax, but I don't see teenage girls as being too likely to take part in such a prank). Also, is it commonplace for abductors to take their victim to to the optometrist for glasses?


- 5 years after she's missing, one of the sisters (who was 5 at the time of the event) says she saw Anthonette answer the door (reportedly at 3am) and get abducted by a pair of men (to the point where she could see them put her in a brown van). Did the abductors close the door behind them? Did the little sister close the door afterward & just go back to bed? Either way, would a 5 year old really not wake their mom up afterward? Is it normal for neighbors to see people coming & going from the house at that time? Is it normal for the kids to answer the door for the 3am round of visitors? Is the mom really that heavy of a sleeper or is she more passed out than asleep?

- Even if the little sister were afraid of telling her mom (for whatever reason), she would certainly not be good enough at pretending to not know that Anthonette was missing the next morning. Seriously, have you seen kids' acting? It's atrocious & impossible to not see & know that something is up. Yeh, this is bottom tier anecdotal evidence, but the next time you see a 5 year old with no coaching that's good at acting will be the first time it's ever happened (hell, even with coaching, a majority of 5 year olds are still pathetic at such acting)

- Reported abductor says his name is Uncle Joe. Some people say something to the effect of "everyone has an Uncle Joe, so it's probably coincidental that she actually had one." Those people need to shutup. Sorry, no abductor is just gonna knock & hazard a guess at a name that will get them in. Not only is "Uncle Joe" not as common as some of you seem to think it is, the overwhelming majority of the US population would have no uncle named Joe (or Joseph). An abductor would just assume break into the house & have the element of surprise than knock at the door at 3am & hope the resident knows an Uncle Joe. If it was an abduction, then it the perp most certainly knew the family


- Then some junk about a medicine woman. If you put any stock in this, then I've got a bridge to sell you




- The little sister's story is full of gaping holes large enough to drive a brown van through. A pair of 5 & 9 year old girls are the ones that answer the door at 3am? The abductors (or the 5 year old) take the time to lose the door behind them after Anthonette is taken? The 5 year old doesn't tell a soul about this for 5 years? The next morning, the 5 year old just acts like the sister missing is not at all related to what she saw the night before? Is this 5 year old the greatest child actor of all time?

- Not sure what to make of that story, all I know is that it didn't happen the way she says it did. My first inclination is to assume the 5 year old had dreams similar to the story she espoused after her older sister went missing. She probably had similar dreams pretty frequently eventually she just believed that is what happened? That's still pretty flimsy. Maybe she was told to give this story? I dunno, but what I do know is there's zero chance the events of that night happened as portrayed in her story. She was scared to tell her mom what happened? Ok, but at first the mom didn't know Anthonette was missing. She was scared to simply say, oh Uncle Joe (or someone claiming to be Uncle Joe) came by & grabbed her?




- This whole story is just weird. A likely hoaxed phone call & the fishy story of the sister means I have to keep open the idea that the mom is involved somehow. Did a little googling on the mother & indeed, I saw that she reportedly failed a lie detector test, was known to be a bit of a partier/drinker & the neighbors would not have thought it weird for people to be coming & going at that time of night. There were also some reports of her mother being involved in drugs, but those didn't seem to be as validated as the other reports, so not putting much stock into it


All told, I'm pretty positive that the mother knew what happened to her daughter and that she is likely the reason behind Anthonette's disappearance

I just posted a 'Joe' is a common name lol.
But even in thinking that, i too agree with all your thoughts.
I havent seen the video yet so i had no idea about the 2 girls opened the door at that time of morning. where was the mother? and the younger one didnt tell anyone what happened??? what the hell. i need to google this case more haha
Did they ever investigate this real life Uncle Joe?
was the mum into drugs?
Definitely seems really suspicious.
Reminds me of Madeline McCann a little.

A simple story of a girl is taken by a stranger, isnt as simple as it should be because the actions of the parents are making it look too planned and too many details left out.
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Old 03-12-2014, 11:57 AM   #236
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I'm sure this has already been put out there, but...

If Mom had a lot of male characters in and out of the home, there's a good chance that this family had a lot of "uncles." I've found it's fairly common for kids to call non-blood relatives "Uncle Mike" or "Uncle Steve." So the little girl opening the door for "Uncle Joe" could be plausible.

That being said-- there are a lot of inconsistencies in Mom's story. I have no doubt she was involved in drugs and is covering her tracks. Maybe Anthonette's disappearance was related to Mom's activities....
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Old 03-12-2014, 12:49 PM   #237
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I'm sure this has already been put out there, but...

If Mom had a lot of male characters in and out of the home, there's a good chance that this family had a lot of "uncles." I've found it's fairly common for kids to call non-blood relatives "Uncle Mike" or "Uncle Steve." So the little girl opening the door for "Uncle Joe" could be plausible.
This is an excellent point.

The family was also Native. I'm not sure if this is a practice with the Navajo or any other tribe, but it's extremely common among Pacific Islander children to call ANY woman or man "auntie" or "uncle". "Uncle Joe" could have been a family friend or even a mere acquaintance.
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Old 03-12-2014, 01:26 PM   #238
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Anyone else slightly suspicious of Anthonette's sister's story, besides me?

According to this article:

http://hubpages.com/hub/missing-disa...nette-cayedito

Penny returned home after midnight to relieve the babysitter. So if Wendy's account is accurate, Penny was home when Anthonette was abducted! Why didn't she immediately run to wake her mother up to tell her some men just abducted her? And why would these men (strangers or known to the family) show up at 3 a.m. to abduct her? How would they know she was awake? What would have happened if Penny answered the door? Or Wendy?

The whole story doesn't add up, IMO.
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Old 03-12-2014, 01:34 PM   #239
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Anyone else slightly suspicious of Anthonette's sister's story, besides me?
No, I think people put too much stock in it, actually.

There are stronger cases of eyewitness testimony that have proved to be false, and this one just isn't very descriptive or clear. Or sensical, honestly.
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Old 03-12-2014, 01:45 PM   #240
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I want to believe the abduction story, and that Anthonette made the 911 call, and that it was Anthonette at the diner. I believed it all when I was much younger, but now that I'm older, I'm beginning to change my mind, or at least question what I believe happened to Anthonette.

I'm finding it very hard to believe that Anthonette heard a knock at the door, emerged from her bedroom at 3AM with her sister, and opened the door, only for the kidnapper to take Anthonette and not her sister. This doesn't seem plausible because most kids, regardless of parenting, are asleep at 3AM. My own daughter used to go outside all the time by herself, to the point where I had to put new locks that she couldn't open/reach on the doors. However, when someone knocked, she got freaked out and came running for me or her mom, either super excited or super scared. She would never open the door, even if I told her to (and after I started watching UM a lot on the forbidden site, I stopped telling her to do so, as it's just too dangerous). It's just very hard for me to believe that Anthonette opened the door at 3AM.

Kidnappers and abductors don't want to be seen or caught. They don't conduct abductions in this manner.

The only way this happens is if the kidnapper wanted the family to know who took Anthonette from the moment she was taken. There had to be a reason for him to want the family to know, and I'll address this theory a little farther down in my post.

There's ZERO chance that the kidnapper knew that Anthonette would open the door. Kids are unpredictable. Even if he knocked on that door 99 times, and Anthonette opened it 99 times, I still wouldn't be on Anthonette opening the door on the 100th knock. It would be much easier for him to simply break into the house and take a sleeping Anthonette from her bed. It's likely she wouldn't even wake up if he was quiet and careful. If Anthonette isn't screaming, it's likely that he wouldn't attract that much attention in the apartment complex. This is completely preferable to taking a chance on her opening the door at 3AM and dragging her away, kicking and screaming, for the rest of the family and neighbors to hear.

I don't know how Anthonette went missing. It's just as likely that she went missing in a completely different manner from the story that's been presented.

Let's just assume, for the sake of this thread, that some of the details presented about her disappearance are true. I think some crucial information is missing. I'd say that two theories I believe are very possible are:

1) Her mother owed a large drug debt to a drug dealer. Anthonette was taken, either as a threat or payment. If she was taken as a threat then the kidnapping occurred in order to get her mother to pay up. If her mother couldn't or refused to pay this debt, then three likely outcomes emerge:

1A) She was killed, to send a message to Penny and other customers that if you don't pay then bad things can and will happen.
1B) She was sold, either into slavery or prostitution, to "settle" the debt.
1C) Maybe the kidnapper had an Alpha Dog moment, and realized that if he returned Anthonette, whether the debt was paid or not, that he was looking at serious jail time. So he kills her.

2) Something happened to Anthonette, either accidentally and intentionally, and since there was an investigation, Penny had to come up with a story of why she was missing.

2A) Under the influence of drugs, Penny just didn't watch Anthonette closely enough, and she did something and accidentally died, or Penny failed to summon help and Anthonette died.
2B) Anthonette got into Penny's drug stash and overdosed. Fearing imprisonment, Penny hides this fact by making up an abduction story. There's really no physical evidence of an abduction, so she uses things like the medicine woman, and coaches her other daughter about what happened that night. My daughter is 5, and she's very smart, but I could convince her that we went to the moon last year, to the point that she would tell other people that we went to the moon, and give details about what we did on the moon. I don't discount any child's account of anything that happens, but I never take them completely at their word, either.
2C) Penny, either under the influence of drugs, or in a rage, killed Anthonette. Rather than go to jail for murder, she covers up the crime and claims Anthonette was kidnapped.

As a wildcard, I'll also throw this out there:

3) Anthonette was sold by Penny for money. There are reports that Penny bought an expensive car shortly after Anthonette disappeared, even though they lived in a poor area of town. I have a hard time believing that she did this because:
3A) She still had parental responsibilities since she didn't sell all of her children.
3B) If she needed money for drugs, she could have gone into prostitution as a way to sustain her drug habit, or simply shacked up with a drug dealer.

I only present this third theory because maybe her search, appearance on Unsolved Mysteries, etc. was a result of remorse or guilt from selling her daughter. Once the money was no longer needed, or gone, or failed to bring her the desired happiness, maybe she wanted her daughter back. Maybe she was trying to burn her candle at both ends, and since she already had the money, figured the FBI could get Anthonette back. It's highly unlikely the buyer would emerge and demand either his/her money or Anthonette to be returned to him or her if the FBI found her and returned her to Penny. This sounds outrageous, but it's not impossible.

I think the FBI knew that Penny was lying, but were never able to acquire enough evidence to either locate Anthonette or, if she was deceased, her body. They wanted the deathbed confession to close the case, so they could stop wasting resources on a non-abduction case, or to focus their efforts with the information she could have provided.

I'm still open to the entire abduction theory, but I think if an abduction was actually what happened, that it went down much different from the reenactment in the segment. I also think there are people, likely Anthonette's parents, who know much, much more than they are revealing.
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