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Old 03-15-2019, 02:48 AM   #16
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Directors, actors and an entire camera crew witnessed her scream and breakdown as the chainsaw scene in 'Scarface' was being filmed. She was escorted to a trailer and consoled by a family friend, Walter Libowitz, at which point she still had not calmed down, saying, "He's going to kill me."

The window incident was what FINALLY convinced Tammy's mother to get her psychiatric tests.

Tammy's mother once mentioned in a newspaper article that it's impossible to tell Tammy's entire story in just a 12 minute segment. So if you feel there's something missing, that's natural. But I don't see any reason not to believe Linda, Wing or his parents.
I wonder if Michelle Pfeiffer was there...

Honestly the segment about Padre Pio.

The miracles segments baffle me. Especially the one with the French woman who insists and insists that **** happened.
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Old 04-23-2019, 11:07 PM   #17
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I don’t believe Perman Gilbert’s wife’s theory that his killer stripped him nude to delay identification or humiliate him. I think it was more than likely that he was having an affair and the other woman’s husband caught them in the act and killed him before he could get his clothes on. The family is in denial.

I have no idea if this is true, but I always felt like there may have been a history of infidelity in the Gilberts’ marriage that the show, in true UM fashion, kept hush-hush in favor of the more mysterious drug angle.
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Old 04-24-2019, 06:29 PM   #18
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I donít believe Perman Gilbertís wifeís theory that his killer stripped him nude to delay identification or humiliate him. I think it was more than likely that he was having an affair and the other womanís husband caught them in the act and killed him before he could get his clothes on. The family is in denial.

I have no idea if this is true, but I always felt like there may have been a history of infidelity in the Gilbertsí marriage that the show, in true UM fashion, kept hush-hush in favor of the more mysterious drug angle.
Agreed. I donít see any other reason for him to be nude like he was found. I suspected possible infidelity as well based on how the cashier interviewed in the segment talked about how he always flirted with her. Just the impression I got.

I also felt that Gail Delanoís mother seemed a little over the top with some of her statements. Like how upset she got over the missing emergency $5 bill. It wouldnít be that unheard of for someone running away from their life to take all of their cash and dump everything else, so as not to leave a trail to their whereabouts.
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Old 04-25-2019, 01:24 AM   #19
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I donít believe Perman Gilbertís wifeís theory that his killer stripped him nude to delay identification or humiliate him. I think it was more than likely that he was having an affair and the other womanís husband caught them in the act and killed him before he could get his clothes on. The family is in denial.

I have no idea if this is true, but I always felt like there may have been a history of infidelity in the Gilbertsí marriage that the show, in true UM fashion, kept hush-hush in favor of the more mysterious drug angle.
Wasnít he buying flowers for someone? Maybe they were for the other woman? His job did involve him going to pplís homes so the affair thing seemed likely to me.
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Old 04-25-2019, 07:58 AM   #20
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I also felt that Gail Delano’s mother seemed a little over the top with some of her statements. Like how upset she got over the missing emergency $5 bill. It wouldn’t be that unheard of for someone running away from their life to take all of their cash and dump everything else, so as not to leave a trail to their whereabouts.
But it IS unheard of at the time to a family member who wouldn't recognize the signs of depression. I don't see those comments as being over the top. You've already been given the shock of your life with your daughter going missing. The last thing that's going to enter your mind is that they left intentionally.

Honestly, the thing that blows my mind the most when I think of this case is how it was portrayed as a woman who was probably on the verge of becoming a senior citizen and paranoid about dying alone. One of the entries in her diary said, "Time is running out." In reality, she was only 34 years old!
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Old 04-25-2019, 12:16 PM   #21
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But it IS unheard of at the time to a family member who wouldn't recognize the signs of depression. I don't see those comments as being over the top. You've already been given the shock of your life with your daughter going missing. The last thing that's going to enter your mind is that they left intentionally.

Honestly, the thing that blows my mind the most when I think of this case is how it was portrayed as a woman who was probably on the verge of becoming a senior citizen and paranoid about dying alone. One of the entries in her diary said, "Time is running out." In reality, she was only 34 years old!
I see your point. I guess it was just obvious to me that she was pretty miserable and just wanted to disappear. I can see that her mother probably didnít recognize it and thought the worst, that she was abducted and possibly murdered.

And yes I agree with you on the whole ďdying aloneĒ thing. I didnít realize how young she still was. 34 isnít even close to getting old and dying alone!
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Old 05-01-2019, 10:11 AM   #22
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Honestly, the thing that blows my mind the most when I think of this case is how it was portrayed as a woman who was probably on the verge of becoming a senior citizen and paranoid about dying alone. One of the entries in her diary said, "Time is running out." In reality, she was only 34 years old!
I took that entry in her diary as expressing her "baby fever", as in "time is running out for me to find a man and start a family". I am sure this would compound her already depressive state to make it even worse.
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Old 05-01-2019, 10:16 AM   #23
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Oh No

On the subject, I always chuckle when the parent (usually the mother) speaks about their son or daughter to argue "he wasn't that kind of boy (or girl)."

Like in Kurt Sova's case, for example. Yes, I am sure a 17-year old "boy" would always try to be home for 9 PM and never try drinking alcohol, like when he was a 12-yo old kid...
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Old 05-01-2019, 12:06 PM   #24
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I took that entry in her diary as expressing her "baby fever", as in "time is running out for me to find a man and start a family". I am sure this would compound her already depressive state to make it even worse.
She already had two teenage sons at the time of her disappearance/suicide.
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Old 05-01-2019, 02:26 PM   #25
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On the subject, I always chuckle when the parent (usually the mother) speaks about their son or daughter to argue "he wasn't that kind of boy (or girl)."

Like in Kurt Sova's case, for example. Yes, I am sure a 17-year old "boy" would always try to be home for 9 PM and never try drinking alcohol, like when he was a 12-yo old kid...
I think Dorothy Sova is a bad example to your otherwise accurate point. She said she never had trouble with him in school or with the police, which I'm sure was true. But she did admit that he was probably drinking at that party. She was just more concerned because the people who were at the party were not his normal group of friends.

Honestly, compared to many parents who were interviewed on UM, Dorothy came across as a realist. She felt Kurt was drinking at that party, died at the party, was already dead when he was on the cot, the party folks panicked and got rid of the body. My gut tells me that's exactly what happened.
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Old 05-02-2019, 10:59 PM   #26
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When I was young and dumb, I believed most of the relatives when they insisted that their loved one didn’t kill themselves. Being an overly naive and trusting kid, I assumed they wouldn’t be on UM if they didn’t have a leg to stand on.

Nowadays, maybe with a few exceptions, I agree with the authorities’ rulings. I heard it’s a common problem people working in law enforcement have to deal with, relatives refusing to accept suicide as an answer. No matter how much evidence there is pointing towards a suicide (person had a history of mental illness or substance abuse, person had recently lost a job or suffered a major setback in their personal life, person had been drinking or abusing drugs the night of) the family will focus on one weird oddity, like the victim was found wearing only one sock, and ignore everything else.

The Kurt Cobain theorists really illustrates this phenomenon, in that so many seem to find the idea of a guy with a major drug problem, documented history of mental illness, a record of previous suicide attempts, whose professional/personal life was an absolute mess, committing suicide to be completely inexplicable.

And now the Cobain theorists are going to descend on this thread. Sorry...is there anything I can do as an act of penance?
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Old 05-03-2019, 12:25 AM   #27
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When I was young and dumb, I believed most of the relatives when they insisted that their loved one didnít kill themselves. Being an overly naive and trusting kid, I assumed they wouldnít be on UM if they didnít have a leg to stand on.

Nowadays, maybe with a few exceptions, I agree with the authoritiesí rulings. I heard itís a common problem people working in law enforcement have to deal with, relatives refusing to accept suicide as an answer. No matter how much evidence there is pointing towards a suicide (person had a history of mental illness or substance abuse, person had recently lost a job or suffered a major setback in their personal life, person had been drinking or abusing drugs the night of) the family will focus on one weird oddity, like the victim was found wearing only one sock, and ignore everything else.

The Kurt Cobain theorists really illustrates this phenomenon, in that so many seem to find the idea of a guy with a major drug problem, documented history of mental illness, a record of previous suicide attempts, whose professional/personal life was an absolute mess, committing suicide to be completely inexplicable.

And now the Cobain theorists are going to descend on this thread. Sorry...is there anything I can do as an act of penance?

There are a few out there that... At least raise questions. You all know how bad I am at remembering names, so.. I'll just mention the cases..

There was the one of the MP that was found shot after calling in that he had performed a traffic stop.. And the one where they interviewed the father, and the bullethole in the wall or headboard was a completely crazy angle..
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Old 05-03-2019, 04:24 PM   #28
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I'd really love to find out which family members/friends were covering for someone. But I don't know of any who did this and it was proven later.

I think Dale Kerstetter was murdered but I would have liked to believe his family was covering for him, if only because that is a better outcome.

I do think it's highly likely Paul Pollis's mother helped him clean up the murder scene.
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Old 05-04-2019, 01:13 AM   #29
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The Kurt Cobain theorists really illustrates this phenomenon, in that so many seem to find the idea of a guy with a major drug problem, documented history of mental illness, a record of previous suicide attempts, whose professional/personal life was an absolute mess, committing suicide to be completely inexplicable.
I agree; always have.

And that Courtney-did-it crap is mainly just rewarmed Yoko Ono hate, IMO.
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Old 05-04-2019, 10:17 AM   #30
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I agree; always have.

And that Courtney-did-it crap is mainly just rewarmed Yoko Ono hate, IMO.
+2. I've always noticed that when someone famous/popular commits suicide, their fans are always quick to try to blame someone else and say that they wouldn't do that despite that person having a troubled history like Kurt Cobain. I guess we don't like to admit that our heroes have problems.
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