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Old 09-02-2017, 04:25 PM   #61
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The oddest aspect of this case, IMO, is that the father received a check for 43k allegedly to declare Curt dead.

They do show onscreen the letter the father signed. I was thinking of doing a freeze frame and trying to transcribe it. If there is any interest, let me know.
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Old 09-02-2017, 06:02 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justins5256
The oddest aspect of this case, IMO, is that the father received a check for 43k allegedly to declare Curt dead.

They do show onscreen the letter the father signed. I was thinking of doing a freeze frame and trying to transcribe it. If there is any interest, let me know.
Actually, if it isn't too much trouble, I'd be very interested. That always bugged me, too. Just who paid the money... and why?
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Old 09-03-2017, 11:36 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Todd Mueller
Actually, if it isn't too much trouble, I'd be very interested. That always bugged me, too. Just who paid the money... and why?
Was it some sort of GI life insurance policy being paid out because he was declared dead?
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Old 11-02-2017, 08:04 PM   #64
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I just rewatched the segment and think the family was just hoping he was alive. There's no way those photos were of him. They didn't look like him at all.
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Old 11-03-2017, 06:48 AM   #65
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Transcription of the letter shown:

Quote:
Mr. Robert C. Borton
P.O. Box 72
Graham, Washington 98338

10 January 1977



Commandant of the Marine Corps
Code MSFA-1
Headquarters, U.S. Marine Corps
Washington, D.C. 20340

Dear Sir,

I am the father and sole beneficiary of SSgt Robert C. Borton, Jr. 492 46 61 71 USMC who is now listed as an MIA from Viet Nam.

After this extended period I feel that to continue to list my son as missing in action will serve no positive purpose, and, therefore, I desire to ask the Secretary of the Navy to change my son's status to killed in XXXXXXXX CAPTIVITY

Will you please assist?

Sincerely yours,
Robert C. Borton Sr.
The "XXXXXX" on the letter was a correction made. I think it was originally typed as "killed in action", but was latter changed to "killed in captivity". The father claims that he was approached in the summer of 1976 by these 2 men with the letter but he blew them off. Eventually, he signed it after being harassed by the men "over a period of weeks". What's interesting though is that the letter is dated January 10th, 1977. 6 months after he claims to have been approached by the men on the street. And the segment mentions that Curt's father made no mention of any of this for 10 years.

Gut instinct is that the father had someone type the letter up for him in an effort to gain the money he eventually received. He feels guilty about it later when his daughter begins her aggressive search into finding him, so exaggerates the story into 2 mysterious men approached him and had him sign this letter, and incorporates that into further evidence that he was still alive. I do think the father honestly believed (or wanted to believe) that Curt was still alive, and by inventing the story would make it more believable, and possibly have someone look deeper into it.
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Old 11-08-2017, 10:52 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCars1986
Transcription of the letter shown:



The "XXXXXX" on the letter was a correction made. I think it was originally typed as "killed in action", but was latter changed to "killed in captivity". The father claims that he was approached in the summer of 1976 by these 2 men with the letter but he blew them off. Eventually, he signed it after being harassed by the men "over a period of weeks". What's interesting though is that the letter is dated January 10th, 1977. 6 months after he claims to have been approached by the men on the street. And the segment mentions that Curt's father made no mention of any of this for 10 years.

Gut instinct is that the father had someone type the letter up for him in an effort to gain the money he eventually received. He feels guilty about it later when his daughter begins her aggressive search into finding him, so exaggerates the story into 2 mysterious men approached him and had him sign this letter, and incorporates that into further evidence that he was still alive. I do think the father honestly believed (or wanted to believe) that Curt was still alive, and by inventing the story would make it more believable, and possibly have someone look deeper into it.
Thanks for transcribing it. I completely forgot I said I would do so earlier in this thread.

I guess one thing still bugs me. Where did the money come from? Would the government really give him some sort of a settlement for having Curt's status changed in this manner?
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Old 11-08-2017, 11:13 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justins5256
Thanks for transcribing it. I completely forgot I said I would do so earlier in this thread.

I guess one thing still bugs me. Where did the money come from? Would the government really give him some sort of a settlement for having Curt's status changed in this manner?
I don't think the military ever denied sending the check, just that in the manner in which it was obtained. I am no expert on military matters at all, but I wonder if the hold up with the money was because officially his status was MIA, meaning that he was entitled to the money if he were still alive. When the father requested his status be changed (roughly 10 years after Curt went missing) to killed in captivity, I think the military agreed and decided that his parents were his next of kin, so they paid his pension. Here's more info about it.
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Old 03-22-2018, 12:03 AM   #68
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saw this segment for the very first time. The family are either bunch of liars or had numerous fantasies and dreams they believed were true
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Old 03-23-2018, 11:12 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCars1986
Transcription of the letter shown:



The "XXXXXX" on the letter was a correction made. I think it was originally typed as "killed in action", but was latter changed to "killed in captivity". The father claims that he was approached in the summer of 1976 by these 2 men with the letter but he blew them off. Eventually, he signed it after being harassed by the men "over a period of weeks". What's interesting though is that the letter is dated January 10th, 1977. 6 months after he claims to have been approached by the men on the street. And the segment mentions that Curt's father made no mention of any of this for 10 years.

Gut instinct is that the father had someone type the letter up for him in an effort to gain the money he eventually received. He feels guilty about it later when his daughter begins her aggressive search into finding him, so exaggerates the story into 2 mysterious men approached him and had him sign this letter, and incorporates that into further evidence that he was still alive. I do think the father honestly believed (or wanted to believe) that Curt was still alive, and by inventing the story would make it more believable, and possibly have someone look deeper into it.
I agree with your theory 100%.
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Old 07-18-2018, 10:24 AM   #70
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All these Vietnam stories seem highly similar-family sees magazine photos of somebody & regardless of them looking not much like their loved one they become convinced it is & then go digging-running into veterans in bars etc who tell them the person is still alive, the government have for some reason gone to crazy lengths to cover it up etc & all manner of conspiracy theories kick off.

Some questions that needed to be put to the family-

1. Why were none of the other family members approached about signing or convincing the father to sign the piece of paper? Why would he not consult legal advice? Why did he sign something when he was practically illiterate? Most importantly what happened to the 43 thousand dollars? He says he didn't tell anybody about it for a decade, so did he just sit on it, or did he pay it into a bank account for himself? What happened to that money?

2. Why would the military be chasing him around in car parks to sign a sheet of paper? What was so special about his son that we have never heard of this happening to any other POW? Is it not more likely he got somebody to type this up & they elected to send him a goodwill cheque? Was there some fund for MIA'S that automatically paid out after a number of years?

3. Supposedly because some clicking was on her line the sister believed her phone was tapped, so did she call in surveillance people to check for bugs in the house? Did they find anything? Is it not more likely that it was just work being done on the line or a bad connection? Before my family switched over to handhelds we used to get horrible clicking noises & bad reception on the landline. Why exactly would the US government be bugging the houses of his family members anyway?

4. Why would the cousin be followed endlessly by guys who merely followed him to & from work? Why would he illegally enter a family members SS number into his work computer when he would have been sacked & possibly prosecuted if discovered? How would this person with the gun know he had tried to access his record, where he worked & be able to get there to pull a gun on him &make a threat?

5. Why would the sister think a guy passing the time of day with a comment about the weather & then likely a totally different person overtaking her on the road the next year have anything to do with her brother? Why when he later revealed himself to her did she not talk to him? They were in a public place & he didn't seem to be acting in a crazy way.

You get the impression these people were probably fueled by all the 1970's/1980's POW obsession-newspaper articles documentaries, songs by musicians about the conflict, the three Rambo films, the Chuck Norris films & Uncommon Valour which featured Robert Stack & just invented all this nonsense or are just that deluded they took everyday events & turned them into something more. Like other families they refuse to accept the evidence of the remains found.
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Old 07-18-2018, 01:00 PM   #71
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Don't believe the family for a minute, the Dad was illiterate and probably the victim of some practical jokes. Kurt's sister I think was delusional and the man she encountered was just some random weirdo. This case was just another one of those UM stories where a family stretches out a story an obscene amount of time where in reality there was actually nothing there.
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Old 11-28-2018, 02:16 AM   #72
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We have a theory above on the father's encounters in the parking lot, the sister's "sightings" can be dismissed as her being mistaken, there's no evidence at all that their phone was being tapped, the photos don't look like him... But what about the cousin?

To me, that's the weirdest part, the only one that would make me give the family the benefit of the doubt.

Unless the cousin was simply making it up, how can we explained that after having ran a credit check on a 1991 computer at his nondescript job, he is confronted by an armed man telling me that what he "did today was very stupid"?
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Old 11-28-2018, 02:58 AM   #73
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All these years later and this case still breaks my heart. I don't believe the Borton family have any dishonest or malicious intentions in their vehement assertions that their loved one is alive and in hiding...just an inability to accept a tragic loss. I can't really say as I blame them for that. My own beloved mother passed away unexpectedly nearly a year ago and I still have dreams almost nightly that she's really alive and the whole thing was just a horrific mistake.

I think that one of the things complicating this segment is that it exacerbates a very real fear by many that there were living POWs left behind after the war. In fact I remember discussing this case with my late mother after we saw a UM rerun and I asked her if she believed there were still living POWs in Vietnam. She said that while she certainly couldn't say one way or the other, she sincerely hoped that there were not.

In answer to your question Appliance, I really can't say what was behind the unusual incident with the cousin, but I do know that the human brain has an amazing ability to make connections and see patterns where none exist. It's one of the more fascinating aspects of human nature IMO. I sincerely hope the new year will bring peace to the Borton family.
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Old 11-28-2018, 09:59 AM   #74
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All these years later and this case still breaks my heart. I don't believe the Borton family have any dishonest or malicious intentions in their vehement assertions that their loved one is alive and in hiding...just an inability to accept a tragic loss. I can't really say as I blame them for that. My own beloved mother passed away unexpectedly nearly a year ago and I still have dreams almost nightly that she's really alive and the whole thing was just a horrific mistake.

Agreed - it's kind of similar to some of these unexplained death cases, where parents convince themselves that their kids were murdered because they don't want to/can't live with the reality that said children either a) committed suicide or b) died in a simple accident
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Old 02-23-2019, 11:45 AM   #75
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I used to believe the family had a case but watching it again nothing adds up. I'm guessing the show was desperate for interesting cases and did it anyways. It almost reminds me of the Kenneth Engie case where the 2 guys had a fight and then the drunk one was found dead in his garage and his family tried coming up with this huge conspiracy that the other guy killed him. They just couldn't accept the facts. And if they really refuse to match DNA that proves they are in denial.
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