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Old 11-14-2011, 04:10 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TracyLynnS
Slovakgal wrote that one of the fraternities was having a party and someone threw an empty "cage" at Jack Davis, hitting him in the head.

She misspelled the word THREW as "through", so did she mis-write and mean that they were having a party and someone threw an empty KEG that hit Jack?

Sorta makes more sense to me... that a drunken partier would throw an empty keg around, rather than an empty cage.
Just seems like such an unlikely thing to do after hitting someone in the head. Of all of the people at this party who witnesses him being hit and knocked out, not one of them has came forward? And at the time, none of them thought it was prudent to call the police? I don't buy that theory.
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Old 04-04-2012, 04:41 PM   #32
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I'm especially intrigued here by the facial hair growth, it's a real sticking point for me and in my forensics training, that's one thing I find difficult to account for, as this is not something that could've occurred post mortem.

Very surprised that law enforcement didn't pick up on any possible campus scuttlebutt and at least, make a run at substantiating fact from gossip. Campuses are infamous for gossip and truth or lie, you'd think somebody(if it were more than one person) would have gabbed.

Unfortunate case, many questions still to be answered.
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Old 04-05-2012, 04:50 PM   #33
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Anyone else notice there is an abundance of "he said/she said" that went on between pathologists that appeared on UM? How many segments had one "expert" saying someone died this way while another "expert" swears they died that way. I think this segment is a perfect example of that.
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Old 06-25-2014, 12:17 PM   #34
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I believe he was killed. No accident. But just my 2 cents.
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Old 02-01-2015, 08:51 PM   #35
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Here's a link to a 2011 article on the case that I don't think has been posted before: https://www.indianagazette.com/news/...-death,115043/

The most interesting/new things I took from it, was that Jack supposedly asked for protection from the police, the name of his fraternity, and a member of that fraternity's alleged involvement in drugs.

Just a little background on the location of IUP, which is probably not extremely relevant to this case but might be helpful to some that like to visualize things. IUP is not in a large urban area, it's not in an isolated rural area either. (I went to a different university in the same higher education system as IUP -- and my school was in a much more rural area than IUP.)

Anyone have any thoughts on the article?

Last edited by Love A Good Mystery; 02-01-2015 at 09:24 PM.
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Old 02-02-2015, 06:19 PM   #36
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Interesting article! Now I'm going to have to buy the book...

Jack Davis has always reminded me of my brother. Maybe that's why his case lingers with me. I hope we someday get answers.
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Old 02-03-2015, 09:23 PM   #37
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I'm reading the book about the case now. It is VERY interesting. The conflicting stories/evidence. There was also an interesting tidbit about how long Jack was actually down there.

I'm not going to give anything away but I do recommend the book.
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Old 02-04-2015, 10:13 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RebZissel
"Suspects: None known, however, reporter Marlene Breenen believes that Jack's death may have been caused by a feud between two fraternities, and that he was involved in a fight the night of his death, that he was injured, that he was held somewhere and that the people thought he was going to be better, but when he died, he was placed in the stairwell."
If this is true, why wouldn't members of the other fraternity have come forward to voice their suspicions?

Plus that article says Wecht agreed that his injuries were more likely sustained by a fall than a blow to the head. I still think it was accidental. He probably fell, then passed out and vomited and sadly died afterwards.
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Old 02-04-2015, 07:23 PM   #39
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[QUOTE=I still think it was accidental. He probably fell, then passed out and vomited and sadly died afterwards.[/QUOTE]

I was leaning in that direction too, really I was, until I found the article I posted on Sunday, which says in part: "...a retired Indiana Borough police officer contacted the family and said Jack came to him for protection two weeks before his body was found," Gentilcore said. "That changes the whole story. "That meant that Jack knew he was going to be harmed, he knew who was going to harm him, but just being 20 years old he didn't know they meant business ..."

Now I am not sure what to think.
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Old 04-17-2015, 01:38 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Love A Good Mystery
I was leaning in that direction too, really I was, until I found the article I posted on Sunday, which says in part: "...a retired Indiana Borough police officer contacted the family and said Jack came to him for protection two weeks before his body was found," Gentilcore said. "That changes the whole story. "That meant that Jack knew he was going to be harmed, he knew who was going to harm him, but just being 20 years old he didn't know they meant business ..."

Now I am not sure what to think.
Well that certainly is an interesting twist. That's pretty big for it to have just been left off the segment.
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Old 04-19-2015, 09:42 PM   #41
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I tend to think what Mike5044 said might be pretty close to the truth.

You cant die from inhaling your own vomit if there is no vomit found in your lungs at autopsy. The fact that the first autopsy declared that the cause of death without ever examining the lungs is mind blowing. The second autopsy found no trace of vomit. It shows that the authorities , whether to protect the schools reputation or due to laziness, failed to do at least a proper investigation.

He died of trauma to his skull... now whether that was from a drunken fall or from a drunken fight, I'm not sure.

I remember they said there was no alcohol in his system which means he had been without alcohol for at least 36 hours for it to be completely gone. Could he have also laid in the stairway unconscious but alive for 36 hours then died from his injuries? If this wasn't the case, then theory number 2 of a fight gone bad in which he was taken somewhere to recover first would've had to happen if there was no alcohol in his blood.
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Old 04-20-2015, 08:46 AM   #42
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I have no idea how Jack Davis Jr. died, but it seems pretty obvious it wasn't from a drunken fall down the stairs, followed by inhaling his own vomit and choking to death.
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Old 10-05-2016, 06:27 PM   #43
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I will take you up on your offer sir / madame and offer a different view point

Im a forensics investigator and in college, part of the curriculum was muder scene investigation and processing, so obviously Ill be biased. Im also just another dumb guy, as my wife will attest to

Jump in with any ideas you have, and let me apologize in advance if Im misunderstanding you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by UMLongtimefan


1. " BUT what if Davis didn't fall down the stars but simply fell over the edge of the stairway. ... went to answer natures call stumpled over the edge of the drop and fell to his death not down the stairs but straight down causing "the blow to the head".
The problem with this, is that he had, if you remember, multiple abrasions and contusions. They called it the egg shelling effect. Bodies do not bounce when they fall from a height. So your scenario may explain a blow to the head, but not the other blows to the head. Wecht said it indeed look like he had gotten into a scuffle. That's also why the guy thought he got it from falling down the stairs. That could be true, however, the body would have came to rest on the stairs - not on the landing. Bodies dont roll either unless forced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UMLongtimefan

2. The beard and the dry clothing don't bother me that much... Facial hair and all hair continues to grow after death, it cannot be relied upon as time factor vs say the temperature of the liver.

This is very true. But dont forget, Liver temp is extremely unreliable - our professor akined to to the only way to know is if the bullet they are killed with strikes his watch, stopping time, when killing him. It is a calculated formula, but with temperature fluctuating day and night, its very unreliable. They usually narrow it down to a couple days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UMLongtimefan

3. With regard to no alchol.. What happens to alchol after a few days in the body? I can't remember if Wecht mentioned this or not.. Was his blood only tested for alchol? Could Davis' have been impaired by another substance?
Wecht said there was none in his system. Now you take that on average it takes 1 hour per "drink" to pass one's system - more or less depending on one's tolerance. One drink being either 1 beer / 1 shot 80 proof / 1 glass of wine.

Alcohol stays in ones system after death (unsure of how long) Regardless, it would have been in his system during the autopsy since his body was fresh.

On that note, rigormortis hadn't even set in, despite the several days missing. This leads me to beleive that he was killed shortly before he was found, or he was attacked, and then for days was given shelter, hoping he would heal on his own. When he didnt his body was dumped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UMLongtimefan

4. Like Watch why would somebody bring the body back to campus? Especially where there are so many potential witnesses? Would there be another stairwell that is closer? I'd like to see a aerial photograph of the IUP campus to see where the body was found.
This is actually VERY common. People think he can be saved, but if they bring him to the hospital, now youve just included yourself. This is why ER folks say some, usually gangbangers cause they dont want to get into trouble, will literally ride up, drop off their bullet riddin homies in the front, and take off. By law, hospitals HAVE to stabilize anyone they see, regardless if they have insurance, ID, etc. They dont have to perform expensive procedures, but they are obligated to get them to a manageable state as possible.

So I can definitely see frat kids, alcohol, tempers flare, Jack gets into a fight and is accidentally killed (punched and he falls back, hits his head). They panic, keep him, trying to heal his wounds hoping he will come to. Dropping off at hospital, well now they have witnesses. So we'll dump him in a public place but after hours where no one will se us, but someone will see him soon. Hence why Wecht said someone would have seen him if he was lying there all weekend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UMLongtimefan

5. Wouldn't a secret like this be tough to keep even in a fraternity? Obviously the police found out about the other fights, wouldn't they find out about the "accident"?
You'd be AMAZED, as I was, at some cases. Ive heard stories of rapes and murders secret for 30 years. WOW! So yeah, it definitely is risky, but some folks do keep secrets. Ive also seen, and screamed at, cases where people are like "Well, I knew, but no one asked me, so I didnt say nothin" WTF?!?! "Well, I figured the police knew what they was doing" (face palm) Or they come forward when the one who threatened them dies, etc.

I do agree with you, however, I think it will eventually come out. Someone always breaks / snaps.


Oh and hey, let me ask you this, and I mean no disrespect at all, sometimes in writing it may come across as snotty, but did you watch the segment? Or maybe there was a shortened one? It just seems odd you are asking questions like "blow to the head" when there were several or was there alcohol when that indeed was covered.

I wasn't sure if you saw the Dennis Farina one which may have omitted it, or where you doing something else while watching it. You seemed to ask questions that were in the case.

Again, Im meaning that as a serious question, not mean. You very well may have not watched the same version that was on way back in the 90's. so I may have an advantage.

Man I wish we could watch those. There was a couple folks on YT (J.M I think it was. also Clint Brady, then Blint Crady lol )that uploaded ALL the old ones not on the dvds. Those are gone.

Anyway, thanks for letting me post. Your thoughts?
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Old 10-06-2016, 10:00 AM   #44
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Nice post, XTremeInvestigator. One question for you...

Doesn't rigor mortis come on, peak, and then disappate? (Forgive my ignorance on this if I am way off base...) In other words, could he have been dumped there and had rigor set in, and then later go away, all while being in that location? I guess my real question is whether or not that can really help tell how long he had been there.

Thanks for all your comments. I like hearing more about this from a true scientific perspective.
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Old 10-06-2016, 12:34 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Mueller
Nice post, XTremeInvestigator. One question for you...

Doesn't rigor mortis come on, peak, and then disappate? (Forgive my ignorance on this if I am way off base...) In other words, could he have been dumped there and had rigor set in, and then later go away, all while being in that location? I guess my real question is whether or not that can really help tell how long he had been there.

Thanks for all your comments. I like hearing more about this from a true scientific perspective.
You are correct, Todd. There are a few stages of Rigor a body goes into. Again, depending on temperature, full Rigor can take 8-12 hours. Then roughly 72 hours, the muscles soften and joints unlock and can be moved.

However, don't forget, during this time, the body begins to decay immediately as well and that doesn't stop. So to your point, could rigor have passed, absolutely, but his skin color and texture, hair, and bloating would occur. Not to mention the biological gasses and odor.

Now I have not seen the crime scene photos, nor did the investigation mention that, so that's why I think Wecht suggested that he was alive for a while and died shortly before he was found.

Im not saying you are wrong, hell I could be wrong, I dunno. Im just saying I would think that if found after rigor had softened, his body would have been in the early stages of decaying.

When he was found, they mentioned that it looked like he was recently dead. The only thing that gave them pause was he was clean shaven when last seen, but had growth when found. Hair growth continues after death, however, his was of much greater length and volume than would have occurred post-mordemly.

Thank you for the compliments. I would not consider myself very scientific at all lol. Someone with a science background would need to chime in and correct me. I am only looking at this from an investigator POV.
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