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Old 12-29-2007, 03:11 PM   #46
peachysquirt21
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I believe the struggle took place before his mom came home & he was dead before she came home.
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Old 12-29-2007, 07:14 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky Kneivel
Thanks you. Okay, Cee to the Dee...speak to some of the points I brought out if you would.
You stated you discount her version of the timeline and the lights...what do you mean by that exactly?
How credible is the mom? Credible on some things but nt others?
Do you think the murderer came there to kill or not to kill?
Did he walk or drive?
Did he come there with or without a gun?
How did the killer get in?
Was it the killer's intention to make the murder look like a suicide?
Why did he hang around for several hours before the mom got home?
Why was he afraid of leaving when she was there?
Why leave the gun?
Why turn the lights on when he left after making such an effort to go undetected for approx. 12 hours or so?
If he found Tony in bed with his girl how did she get there?
How did she leave?
Why didn't the investigators mention that they know Tony was having sex shortly before he died?
Do you think they tried to track down whoever was in bed with him that day? Stands to reason that they could either eliminate or match DNA from prospective paramours (with their consent of course).
Did the cops talk to neighbors to see if they saw any cars or people in and out of the house that day?
Did the cops do an inept job?
Do you believe Tony's mom's first version of the noise or the current version of the noise?
Do you believe Tony's friend was contacted by the police?
Well bear in mind I haven't watched this segment in a while but here are some answers/opinions/theories on the questions:

By the timeline I just meant that the mother could have been mistaken about the light being on. She was busy doing housework and had no reason at the time to pay much attention to the light in his room. Then after the fact she was no doubt in shock by finding her son's body so she could have remembered the facts wrong.
Well I don't think its a question of "credible" about the mom. She did what any of us parents would do thats child was labeled a suicide and she disagreed with, she's making the police department miserable until she gets a decent investigation in her mind. I'm not saying the police department did a lousy job (although I certainly disagree with their conclusion) but you can't really fault her for wanting answers about her son's death.
Thats a good question about the killer came to kill or not to kill. If he made a point to come to Tony's room obviously it wasn't going to be a calm discussion. The fact that there were apparently no fingerprints on the gun makes you think of something being premeditated (unless the gun was wiped clean).
I think he could have driven there. Of course if this guy had plans to kill Tony he wouldn't have wanted his car seen in his driveway. He could have even parked a few blocks away and walked.
I don't think he came with his own gun or they would have mentioned that in the segments as thats a substantial piece of evidence.
As far as how he got in, as far as we know the door could have been unlocked so he probably walked right in.
I can't imagine why he would have hung around in the room for hours thats why I think the mom could be mistaken about the light being on. Certainly the killer didn't want to be there when the parents arrived home.
If the gun belonged to the Lombardi's, why would the murderer want to take it with him? It would just link him to the crime.
Its not a fact that Tony was in bed with a girl at the time of the murder, just a possible theory. If some jealous boyfriend did come in and kill him the girl probably left with him and is too scared to say anything for fear of what the boyfriend would do to her. Again just a theory.
Offhand I don't think the cops did a bad job. I think they probably at first glance thought Tony had committed suicide (which would be a simpler scenario for them). They claimed they interviewed all these people including the guy who threatened his life and they all deny having anything to do with his death. Duh!! Of course they're going to deny it, thats why they should have done more investigating and confirmed his alibi (which hopefully they did). I can't imagine Tony's friend would lie about not being contacted as thats something that would be easy enough for the cops to disprove so if they didn't contact and interview his best friend that would certainly be shoddy policework.

This has been a good discussion and I hope it doesn't take a bad turn. Truthfully I doubt anyone's mind was changed, they still feel the same about the case as they did before they read this thread but at least both sides have gotten a chance to present their opinions.
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Old 01-06-2008, 01:29 AM   #48
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I am sending a copy of the extended version to Crystaldawn, I was going to have it out by now, but a bout of laryngitis kept me bedridden for a few days. She may put it on vol 13, or at least the clip of the second death threat.
I should mention that I recently realized that my copy came from Space Invaderz, so I should give him most of the credit.
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Old 01-06-2008, 03:00 AM   #49
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I have posted about this case before, but have just now discovered this thread after quite a long absence from these forums. I am interested in what Corky is saying and I think he/she is pretty much dead on. As I have stated in other threads, this Lombardi case is very similar to the Tommy Burkett case, both of which I think were suicides.

Now on to Corky:

Quote:
The murder scenario, as described by Tony’s mom, states that the murderer was inside Tony’s room when his mom got home and indeed stayed in there for several hours, with the lights off, before leaving while mom was in her bedroom. She comes back out of her room and noticing that Tony’s bedroom light is now on, enters his room to discover him deceased. I have a problem with this recounting because I don’t feel the mom is credible. In her UM interview, and the way the recreation is presented, she hears a specific door noise which prompts her to come out to the hall. However, as the police officer interviewed in the segment reveals, in her original statement, while all the events are fresh in her mind, she couldn’t say what the noise was. When asked, “Was it a regular house noise” and given specific choices, one of which was a door being shut, she states “I don’t know what it was”. I find this inconsistency troubling and I think it discredits her later insistence that she specifically heard a door being shut, presumably the killers leaving, which leads her to find Tony. Extrapolating from that, coupled with the officer’s revelation that she needed time to calm down and make her statement, I don’t count her story of the lights going from off to on as being credible either. Not only because I find her to be is lacking in credit, to me the whole situation HIGHLY unlikely.
Bingo!

The mother's scenario doesn't add up. The killer would have had to be one sly and experienced killer to pull off the scenario the mom indicates. As with the Burkett case, why would the supposed killer pick Lombardi's home in order to off him, especially when his parents live there?

Quote:
Remember what Robert Stack says is the one thing everyone agrees on, that Tony was dead long before his mom ever came home at midnight. So a killer comes to the house, murders Tony, and then hangs around for several hours, in the dark, until someone else comes home? Then the killer decides to hang around even longer, all the while in possession of a working and fully loaded gun, already having overpowered and murdered a 22 year old man, and is afraid to come out and leave while a middle aged woman is alone in the house doing laundry?
Another bingo. None of the murder theorists can explain the gap in time, nor why the killer hangs around the house for so long after the deed was done.

Quote:
** - I think the gun belonged to the Lombardis. Its never stated in the UM segment but if it wasn’t somehow connected to the family I think the family would point to a strange gun being found at the scene as proof positive of a murder. I also think if it wasn’t traceable to the Lombardi family the police would have explained in the segment that they investigated and surmised Tony copped a gun in secret. The fact that it’s never mentioned leads me to believe the gun belonged in that house.
3rd Bingo.

In order for the murder scenario to be plausible, the killer would had to have very intimate knowledge of Tony's home and where his gun was stored. If the killer did indeed have such info, he would surely have known that Tony's parents also live there and his chances for success were not that great. Further, if such an individual did exist, certainly the parents would know him since he must have spent a lot of time in Tony's house in the weeks/months/years prior to the murder.

Quote:
I would counter by saying that those are some serious wounds to sustain while there is absolutely NO evidence of a fight occurring. No kicked over chairs, no scraped knuckles on Tony, no fibers or hairs or blood or anything from the killer.
Bingo again.

I would like to add that not only was there no physical evidence indicating anyone else was in that room, but in order for us to accept the murder hypothesis, one must also accept that the murderer somehow got into perfect position next to Tony in order to fire the shot from Tony's own gun at a near perfect trajectory in order to produce a suicide scenario. All the while Tony just lays there naked allowing this to take place. Sure, one could argue that the killer knocked Tony out, thus incapacitating him so that he could arrange the staged crime scene, but as far as I have seen, the coroner has never indicated any such head wounds which would have obviously resulted from such a blow. All there was on Tony's body were very superficial bruises etc., which any medical examiner will tell you nearly all humans will exhibit if they are examined closely after death. In, fact I heard Cyril Wecht state this very fact recently when he was discussing the Stacy Peterson case (though I do think Drew is guilty of two murders).

Quote:
A very bright and funny individual suggests that this was a “crime of passion”. I’m assuming that she means to suggest a scenario in which the killer came to the house, found Tony and a woman romantically engaged, and then murdered Tony in a fit of rage. This scenario doesn’t make sense to me because how many crimes of passion, fit of rage, type murders end with only a single bullet being fired? This scenario demands that a single bullet is fired after NO physical confrontation and in the all-too-common-UM-explanation “murder made to look like suicide” criminal-master-mind motif by someone who was apparently killing in the heat of the moment.
Exactly. Such a motive is definitely implausible for a number of reasons.

First, I have no idea how Tony's parents ran their household, but I do know that even if I was a 22 year old adult living at home, my parents would not have approved of me banging a chick in their house. As a result, I would likely carry my sexual escapades elsewhere (like my GF's apartment or a back seat of a car). I know this argument alone is not the strongest since some parents are more liberal than others, but most people wouldn't conduct themselves at home like this, especially since Tony had to know his mom would be home in short order.

Admittedly, there is the possibility that Tony thought he and his GF had time to do the deed before anyone arrived home, but even if this is the case, I find it hard to believe that a jealous man would enter the house and carry out such an elaborate murder without regard for who else might be there. It's a pretty brazen act to carry out in someone's parent's house. I realize there are people out there who would have the insanity level required to attempt such a murder, but it would have been so sloppy that we wouldn't be having this conversation now.

IF this was a murder (and that's a big if), I definitely don't see it being the work of another early 20's jealous boyfriend. The only scenario where this would be plausible is if this jealous BF hired Mr. Brooks (Kevin Costner's character in the movie) to pull off a professional hit. Only someone with as much murder experience as Mr. Brooks would have enough guile to stay in the room for hours and attempt an escape when someone is alive in the next room.

To further compound the incredulity factor, if it was indeed a crime of passion, then who is this woman Tony was sleeping with and where is she? Certainly she would suspect that the murder was carried out by a former lover. Did the killer sit outside in a car watching and waiting for them to finish their sexual act and allow the woman to leave before he entered to kill Tony? It's possible, but still the girlfriend should have suspected something after Tony turned up dead, yet no such woman has ever came forward to my knowledge.

It's true that such a crime of passion scenario might explain Tony's nudity, but there are so many flaws in the theory (mainly that this case has no hallmarks of a crime of passion) that it must be dismissed in my view.
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Old 01-06-2008, 03:19 AM   #50
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Let me also add something in regard to Tony's bruises and other injuries. I just now saw where he had a broken jaw, as I had forgotten that. I find it likely that he perhaps was engaged in a fight with another guy at some point before his suicide, just as Corky suggests. This is far more of a simple explanation than the elaborate theory of a criminal mastermind sneaking into his house and killing him without leaving a trace of evidence, hair, blood, or signs of a struggle behind.
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Old 01-06-2008, 06:40 AM   #51
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I just watched the Burkett segment and HE was the one with the broken jaw, not Lombardi as someone else in this thread said. Or did they both have broken jaws?
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Old 01-06-2008, 07:14 AM   #52
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Lombardi had a broken jaw.
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Old 01-06-2008, 07:29 AM   #53
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Quote:
Lombardi had a broken jaw.
Interesting. I thought I had the Lombardi case stored on my TIVO from a year or two ago but I don't. I am in the process of transferring them all to DVD so I can get them off my TIVO. This is why I watched the Burkett case again. After watching it, I found even more flaws in the story of the parents, which I wont go into in this thread. I might start a new thread about it.
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Old 01-06-2008, 07:50 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by wiseguy182
what is with all this loser at 22 stuff? ok so he had a crap job, hardly atypical for someone that age. He seemed to pretty happy/popular, which makes the suicide angle harder to believe.
Exactly... There is no evidence that I know of anyway that Tony hated his job. The guy was still young & had plenty of time to get a better job if he had chosen too.

As far as Tony getting into a fight the day/night before his death, I find that to be a bit of a stretch.
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Old 01-07-2008, 12:52 AM   #55
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This case is a sad one, for the family and for him being so young. He looked a lot older than 22 in the pictures. I do not believe he was unhappy. I am around this age and it is a tough time, not everyone is doing what they want, but not everyone is really unhappy (like high school). I believe it was suicide. Anyways, I live about an hour from columbus (which westerville is a suburb of) and have been there a few times. I go up to columbus a lot to visit my sister, and it would be nice to drive around the area. It is a very nice more upper class area, and I would like to know where this happened just to see it.
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Old 01-07-2008, 01:58 AM   #56
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i wonder what Tony's plans were, college or otherwise. might be helpful in understanding this case more.
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Old 01-07-2008, 05:40 PM   #57
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Finally somebody who agrees with me!! (your $100 payoff is coming in the mail shortly)

You and I are pretty much on the same path when it comes to our interpretation of the known facts and evidence, as well as the implausibility of that evidence coming together in a murder.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Thiussat
I have posted about this case before...
I'd be interested in reading what you wrote in those posts. I did a search but was pressed for time and I may have missed it. In any of those threads did people come up with any murder theories that sounded convincing to you at all?

Were you like me in that you were convinced that this was strictly a suicide, with no nefarious interlopers, from the get-go? Or did you come around to this conclusion after having discussions about the case?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Thiussat
As I have stated in other threads, this Lombardi case is very similar to the Tommy Burkett case, both of which I think were suicides.
Its funny you bring that case up, as I immediately came to the conclusion that too was obviously a suicide. I have since changed my position on Tommy Burkett and lean more to the murder scenario.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thiussat
Now on to Corky
Who is a man, btw.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thiussat
...any medical examiner will tell you nearly all humans will exhibit if they are examined closely after death. In, fact I heard Cyril Wecht state this very fact recently...
Wow! That's something else I'd be interested in reading about.
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Old 01-07-2008, 06:21 PM   #58
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There is NO way that Tommy Burkett could have shot him self and remained in an upright position AND continued holding the gun as the UM recreation depicted. Unless this is a mistake on their part, it's not possible. I've researched and read enough to know that. Ridiculous on the killer's part to not have set the scene up better, then maybe suicide would have been a more believable cause of death.
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Old 01-07-2008, 06:30 PM   #59
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I agree Kamy, not only that, but that Fairfax County, Police mouthpiece (spokesman) struggled to keep a straight face during his interview. He struggled to keep a straight face, he appeared nervous, his eye contact wasnt the best, he just basically made little effort to hide the fact he was lying and just repeating the same line of bunk that his bosses told him to repeat after presumably the Drug Enforcement Administration came knocking on the Fairfax County police chief's door and told him to stay out of the Burkett case and to write it off as a suicide.

It was just obvious the gun was planted, heck the gun wasnt even in working order! If people want to argue about Lombardi and some of these other ones fine, but in my opinion Burkett's "suicide" isnt a suicide, it is an obvious murder, it just isnt even in .01 percent doubt for me that it was a murder, anyone with a functioning cerebellum could tell the same I would think. It sort of reminds me of Danny Williams who was also sitting up in his couch holding the gun in a similiar way right in his lap, it was just an obvious plant.
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Old 01-07-2008, 08:20 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky Kneivel

You and I are pretty much on the same path when it comes to our interpretation of the known facts and evidence, as well as the implausibility of that evidence coming together in a murder.
The known facts don't support a suicide. They support more of foul play was involved.
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