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Old 08-09-2014, 05:37 PM   #106
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Old 08-11-2014, 05:20 PM   #107
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I've never felt like anyone in the Ramsey family was responsible for JonBenet's murder, even before they were cleared. I've found some of the accusations concerning John, Patsy, and Burke to be utterly disgusting, frankly--especially given the fact that every single one of those accusations had not one shred of evidence to back it up, such as John being a pedophile. I don't blame them for their defensiveness or their defamation lawsuits over the years.

I think it either was, in fact, a kidnapping-for-ransom gone wrong, or someone who wanted to make it look that way.
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Old 08-11-2014, 05:58 PM   #108
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I've never felt like anyone in the Ramsey family was responsible for JonBenet's murder, even before they were cleared. I've found some of the accusations concerning John, Patsy, and Burke to be utterly disgusting, frankly--especially given the fact that every single one of those accusations had not one shred of evidence to back it up, such as John being a pedophile. I don't blame them for their defensiveness or their defamation lawsuits over the years.

I think it either was, in fact, a kidnapping-for-ransom gone wrong, or someone who wanted to make it look that way.
Yes I agree,and the stun gun markings on JonBenet's body which were missed for so long suggest an outsider. But then we're faced with the ransom note with the exact figure of the father's bonus I believe,so there was either some loose talk in a public place or somebody connected with his place of employment. One ends up going round in circles but I think ultimately we are left with a pushy mother(not that there's anything wrong intrinsically in that) and a father who didn't know what hit them and who must reminisce on that fatal night as he walks along the shores of Lake Michegan on a frosty Christmas morning.
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Old 08-12-2014, 12:38 PM   #109
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What's unfortunate regarding the investigation is that there were just so many people at the family's house during the Christmas party the week prior and then the one the night before, that it would've been incredibly challenging to nail down everyone who'd had access to the house in the days leading up. Coupling that with the corrupted crime scene, the fact that the Boulder PD aren't the FBI and the media frenzy, which only incited narrower tunnel vision, the investigation had so much going against it from jump.

Having met John Douglas at conference, I think he has a solid beat on the scenario, but the grand jury indictment does raise some eyebrows. The DNA's in CODIS, so shy of an outright confession that has validity, I think the best chance is for a hit on the database....
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Old 08-12-2014, 05:04 PM   #110
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Been watching a few vids on the forbidden site about this case. In my point of view the investigation was a complete mess and preformed so poorly by LE.

I do nothing find anything that points towards the parents or the brother committing the crime. There seems to me no shred of evidence pointing towards it, however if there is feel free to fill me in?

There is a slight spin of suspicion that has progressed due to public perception on how someone should act when there family members are killed and if they don't act a certain way that must mean they are guilty. To me they seem to be going through a hard time yet holding it together quite well and being strong for their remaining son. They are not exactly laughing and partying or pulling any stunts to Casey Anthony or Darlie Routier standard.

Also I find it a bit harsh how many people are jumping on the brother saying he's committed this crime on his own sister. Forgive me if I'm wrong but wasn't he 9 years old at the time? It must be horrible thinking the world was blaming you for killing your sister when you're only a child.

Did I read some where that he died in a car crash with his wife? If its true then I know its harsh to say but that family had no luck at all.
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Old 08-12-2014, 06:06 PM   #111
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There is a slight spin of suspicion that has progressed due to public perception on how someone should act when there family members are killed and if they don't act a certain way that must mean they are guilty. To me they seem to be going through a hard time yet holding it together quite well and being strong for their remaining son. They are not exactly laughing and partying or pulling any stunts to Casey Anthony or Darlie Routier standard.
Yeah, HLN does this all the time. The recent case of a father laughing nervously while remembering his missing daughter was one. Everyone jumped all over him. Last I remember, they found the body, it turned out a local teenager killed her.

When there is sufficient evidence I understand the reaction to blame the parents, but going on someone not acting "the right way" when their child has been killed is a poor barometer of guilt.
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Old 08-13-2014, 02:46 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by Spark Of Spirit
Yeah, HLN does this all the time. The recent case of a father laughing nervously while remembering his missing daughter was one. Everyone jumped all over him. Last I remember, they found the body, it turned out a local teenager killed her.

When there is sufficient evidence I understand the reaction to blame the parents, but going on someone not acting "the right way" when their child has been killed is a poor barometer of guilt.
Nancy Grace just loves to be judge, jury and executioner. She is a vile human being.
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Old 08-13-2014, 03:08 AM   #113
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Quote:
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Nancy Grace just loves to be judge, jury and executioner. She is a vile human being.
That's why she was disbarred as a states attorney when she practiced law.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nikkispence1989
Been watching a few vids on the forbidden site about this case. In my point of view the investigation was a complete mess and preformed so poorly by LE.

I do nothing find anything that points towards the parents or the brother committing the crime. There seems to me no shred of evidence pointing towards it, however if there is feel free to fill me in?
The crime scene was poorly handled from the beginning. There was no way to know that Jon Benet's body was in the basement of the house. All of the people going in and out of the house and the initial search of the house ruined any kind of evidence of fibers, hairs, etc.

It's been mentioned (in this thread, I think) that the house was fairly large and that it was possible that the body was dumped in the basement by an intruder. I believe this theory. But I also believe that the person who committed the crime had to be someone close to the family and had intimate knowledge of the house. A few years ago, on a special report on television, an investigator had in fact demonstrated how an intruder could have broken into the house and taken a route to Jon Benet's bedroom undetected. Given the size of the house and the odd route the intruder would have to take to get to her bedroom, it's not a stretch that the perpetrator had to have been someone who had very detailed knowledge of the house. Given that the ransom was the exact amount of Jon's bonus points in the same direction. The biggest thing prosecutors have for a conviction is the DNA evidence. All they need is a match to someone.
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Old 08-13-2014, 07:57 AM   #114
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The people that believe Burke Ramsey was responsible never bothered to think about how highly implausible it would be for a 9 year old to kill someone like that, not to mention what kind of effect their baseless accusations might have on a little boy and his family on such a highly publicized case.

When these people decide to step into reality, they're going to suffer from culture shock.
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Old 08-16-2014, 12:58 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_uk
Yes I agree,and the stun gun markings on JonBenet's body which were missed for so long suggest an outsider. But then we're faced with the ransom note with the exact figure of the father's bonus I believe,so there was either some loose talk in a public place or somebody connected with his place of employment. One ends up going round in circles but I think ultimately we are left with a pushy mother(not that there's anything wrong intrinsically in that) and a father who didn't know what hit them and who must reminisce on that fatal night as he walks along the shores of Lake Michegan on a frosty Christmas morning.
I do not believe the killer will ever be found. This case is (in my not-so-humble opinion) the most fascinating murder case in history. Some of you guys mention how many people had access to the house and were in the house in the weeks prior to the murder, this is very true and the really fascinating thing is that there actually is compelling evidence that could implicate all of them (especially the Ramsey's friends).Things that really bug me about the coverage of this case in the last decade or so are that they make so much out of these red herrings in the case that are irrelevant.

First, the $118,000 dollars being the same amount of John's bonus, how did they find out about that? Hello, its called dumpster diving! I think going through the trash and the mail are all very likely possibilities on how this figure came about. And it would be a smart move to because it throws off the investigation - and everybody has taken the killer's bait on this.

Also, the ransom note itself. The ransom note is NOT about trying to actually get that $118,000 dollars and it is also NOT about kidnapping and the length of it (3 pages) says nothing about who wrote it. The ransom note functioned to be as a "stopper." According to Patsy, she woke up that morning and saw that her daughter was gone and then flew down the stairs panicked to look for her. The ransom note STOPS her from searching the house! This gives the intruder more time to get out of the basement if he is still in there and makes everybody (including the police) think the child is NOT INSIDE the house! The key to getting away this is making sure that the body remains undiscovered for as long as possible. This gives the intruder the most amount of time to get out of the area and jeopardizes forensic evidence -- and as such it was in the case!
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Old 08-16-2014, 10:18 PM   #116
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To not believe Ramsey involvement/knowledge of the crime, you have to believe that Patsy Ramsey was someone in the habit of wearing the exact same outfit two days in a row.

Also, an official investigator on the case wrote a book in 2012 that casts doubt on an intruder being responsible for the crime. (James Kolar)
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Old 08-16-2014, 10:50 PM   #117
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I do not believe the killer will ever be found. This case is (in my not-so-humble opinion) the most fascinating murder case in history.
Agreed on both counts. This is THE most baffling mystery ever. I am completely 50/50 on whether the parents were involved or not.

Why I want to say it was an intruder:

-zero evidence indicating the father was a pedophile
-beautiful child of wealthy family paraded around in beauty pageants; clearly a primo kidnapping target
-extreme gruesome-ness of the crime; this is just generally not seen when parents bump off their own kids
-the mysterious DNA, although the investigation was so botched who knows at this point
-the mysterious boot print found in the basement

Why I want to say it was the parents:

-Mother's overdramatic southern belle personality seems to be the exact type of personality behind the wording of the ransom note
-A ransom note but no actual kidnapping? Umm, ok...
-Scant, if any, evidence of an intruder in the home
-Wealthy, well-connected father does NOT spend rest of his life searching for his daughter's killer. If I had tons of money and my precious little 6-year-old's life was snuffed out in the most brutal and mysterious of ways, you bet your life I'd be putting the heat on EVERYONE to figure out what happened.
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Old 08-17-2014, 12:10 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freshwater
To not believe Ramsey involvement/knowledge of the crime, you have to believe that Patsy Ramsey was someone in the habit of wearing the exact same outfit two days in a row.

Also, an official investigator on the case wrote a book in 2012 that casts doubt on an intruder being responsible for the crime. (James Kolar)
There is compelling evidence implicating Patsy but I don't think this is one of them. She was not "Oh, I'm dressed for the day now." In a pinch, it works to put on those clothes when the police are coming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SheRaaa
Agreed on both counts. This is THE most baffling mystery ever. I am completely 50/50 on whether the parents were involved or not.
I have gone back and forth several times over the years. When it first happened, I swore it was an intruder. But I have changed my opinion many times based on the evidence and books. Larry Schiller's book has pulled me in many directions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SheRaaa
Why I want to say it was an intruder:.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SheRaaa
-zero evidence indicating the father was a pedophile
.
Very true - John Ramsey is clean, after years of inquiry into every relationship and minute of this man's life, there is no evidence of this not surrounding JonBenet or anybody else. However, we can't forget that the child had OLD and NEW vaginal injuries- she was being molested by somebody.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SheRaaa
-beautiful child of wealthy family paraded around in beauty pageants; clearly a primo kidnapping target.
Spot on. This is really where the police's obsession with the parents in early 1997 hurt the investigation so much. Because it was those pageants and everybody who ever came to one of them that should have been interviewed and scrutinized.

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Originally Posted by SheRaaa
-extreme gruesome-ness of the crime; this is just generally not seen when parents bump off their own kids.
The crime is painfully, bone chilling gruesome. The hit to her head could have knocked out a 350 pound football player (this comes from Lou Smit). Also, the sadistic garrote... nowhere in any instance before has a parent killed a child in that manner. Drowning, beating, throwing against walls or dropping off stairs--- all yes but not that way!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SheRaaa
-the mysterious DNA, although the investigation was so botched who knows at this point.
I don't put any stock in that supposed DNA evidence. Likely it came from the manufacturer of the underpants she was wearing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SheRaaa
-the mysterious boot print found in the basement.
Mysterious yes, but that was a very common boot especially worn by police and investigators, its possible that with so many of them in and out of that basement space that it came from that. And it seemed like when the boot evidence was discovered a few years later, the DA had no interest in it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SheRaaa
Why I want to say it was the parents:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SheRaaa
-Mother's overdramatic southern belle personality seems to be the exact type of personality behind the wording of the ransom note.
I agree with you. If you read the Ramsey's housekeeper, Linda Hoffman Pugh's, account of it she says that Patsy was just about the strangest person she had ever known... weird notes she left around the house, Patsy telling her she was seeing angels and basically having hallucinations (although the chemotherapy in the years prior due to her Stage 4 ovarian cancer could have caused this).

In Steve Thomas's book (the police detective who left the department and the Ramsey's toughest critic in Boulder), he says that after an incident where Burke accidently hit JonBenet on the nose, Patsy was in the doctor's office requesting a PLASTIC SURGEON! For a 6 year old!

The wording of that note is crazy and nutty. Patsy was a fan of mystery novels and Linda Hoffman Pugh says that Patsy may have been trying to come across that way to stage the scene.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SheRaaa
-A ransom note but no actual kidnapping? Umm, ok....
The ransom note has to be the BIGGEST red herring in the case. It has many purposes but most have to do with searching the house.

If you believe Patsy wrote it or that the Ramsey's wrote it... here is why they did it:
- Because Patsy would have had to have a "story" to call 911 about and give a plausible reason for why she is reporting her child "missing" when she has not even searched the house!
- The ransom note is an entry point for her to "break the news" to the police and everybody else about the kidnapping and bypassing doing a top/bottom up/down search of the house, as is naturally instinctive if you find your child not in her bed.
- If Patsy had not wrote the note, she would not have a way to call police about anything without implicating herself. You can't call and say, my child is missing and then say you searched the house when the body is rotting cold on the basement floor. Because then when the cops found the body, she would have some serious answering to do and it prohibit her to be so melodramatic when the body was found - key to making sure that she comes in contact with the body while the police is there so that she can explain away why her and John's clothing fibers were found all over the body.
- Also, if you believe Patsy wrote the note, you have some evidence to back it up: check out Patsy's left hand copy comparisons... it is eerily similar.

If you believe an intruder wrote the ransom note, here is why they HAD to do it:
- Because it functions as a stopper and buys them a lot of time!
- It immediately throws off the investigation from the start and all of the attention is immediately focused on one big red herring during the most critical hours
- If a mother finds their child missing from her bed, she firsts searches the house to find her. Okay, where are you. The ransom note STOPS her from doing that. And here is why that is so important: The intruder doesn't know when the Ramsey's wake up and if he is still in that basement at the time, it gives him time to get out and get as far away from the scene as possible while everybody screams and yells about the note.
- Say one of the Ramsey's woke up in the middle of the night and he had JonBenet alive in the basement... the ransom note once again protects him because it keeps them from searching the house and finding him.
- It gives the intruder A LOT of control over the situation

Quote:
Originally Posted by SheRaaa
-Scant, if any, evidence of an intruder in the home.
Yes, and let's get real, there is NO physical evidence that an intruder entered that home in "burglar" fashion. The window in the basement - that is completely staged. The spider web was intact, that is not how he got in. The intruder walked out the back door.

Lots of people have keys, its easy to make a copy. Also, something interesting that never gets talked about is JonBenet's balcony! That is a feasible entry and exit point.

I just think that yes, it is possible an intruder came in that house without leaving forensic evidence of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SheRaaa
-Wealthy, well-connected father does NOT spend rest of his life searching for his daughter's killer. If I had tons of money and my precious little 6-year-old's life was snuffed out in the most brutal and mysterious of ways, you bet your life I'd be putting the heat on EVERYONE to figure out what happened.
This may sound a bit crude but I think that John Ramsey was very disconnected from JonBenet during her life. I will never forget hearing the Ramsey's lawn keeper being interviewed (he was cleared with an alibi) and recounting what JonBenet told him, that daddy is "gone so much" and "I miss him." His concern was his business and I don't think he was really involved in her life very much.

So, ya, that's my long summation to your points. Once I get started thinking about this case, I can't stop!
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Old 08-17-2014, 08:55 AM   #119
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With reference to the James Kolar book do we know what the grand jury information might be?http://news.sky.com/story/1319369/po...rd-home-search
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Old 08-18-2014, 02:53 PM   #120
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I'am on the parents are innocent ship, but I've just had a mad thought.

There was no DNA from John Ramsey found on his daughter, but then again it was him to picked her up from the basement and put her under/near the xmas tree and then picked her up to move her again. How can his DNA not be found on her? Can you really move a body twice with out getting a scrap of DNA on her?
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