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Old 01-17-2011, 07:32 AM   #91
cocytus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiseguy182
The "Ramsesy did it" crowd has flip-flopped so many times in regards to which one (or should i say ones) they beileved committed these atrocius acts, it's difficult to pinpoint where they actually stand at any certain time. My personal favorite are the ones that believe more than one person in the house was responsible. ORLY? That is a huge leap. So not just one, but two people, who have absolutely no history of abusing JonBenet, (sexually, physically, emotionally, or verbally, or whatever) decide to wake up in the middle of the night on Christmas night (when they have an early flight in the morning) and their minds snap and they do all these horrible things to her. Come up with far-fetched scenarios much?

And in addition to their being absolutely zero DNA evidence to link the Ramseys to this, as radiohead33 correctly pointed out, I also pose the question: What motive is there for the Ramseys to do this? Or what possible motive could there be? The only thing they have been able to offer in 15 years is the infamous bedwetting scenario, but that is entirely speculative.

When you look at the actual facts and evidence of the case, it is clear the Ramseys are innocent. Anybody that believes otherwise hasn't looked at the facts, or has maniuplated them and twisted them in order to cling on for dear life that their theories are correct. I think the most famous one was that they Ramseys avoided the police and moved away. ORLY? Because the Ramseys in actuality, gave everything to the police that they asked for, including allowing themselves to hours on end of questioning, every sample from handwriting samples to hair samples, you name it. However, the "Ramseys did it" crowd just simply state they ignored the police and quickly change the subject.
Hmmm....

1) Not knowing the mental or emotional baggage carried by the Ramsey's, it's difficult to guess why they might have committed this crime, if they in fact did do so. It is clear,however, that Patsy Ramsey was living her dreams through her daughter and that their marriage seemed to have a great deal of difficulty.

2) And what's the hard part of believing that more than one person in the home was involved? The death of JonBenet would have affected the comfortable lifestyle they were experiencing. If one party (the one that didn't commit the crime) realized that, they might do anything to prevent that from occurring.

3) As far as motive; from what I have seen, there have been few detailed background stories on the Ramsey's. In fact, shortly after this started, they "circled the wagons" and released very limited information. W/O a detailed psychological work up on both parents it would be very hard to determine if they were involved in this. As UM has shown many times,there are a surprising number of people that willing (and able) to commit murder.

As a person that believe that Ramsey's role in this is far more than they are admitting, I'm very surprised that given the extensive LE investigation and the staggering amounts of media coverage that the alternate suspect (if there is one) has never emerged. With a lot of people looking for something, there's usually a discovery. In case...not so much.
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Old 01-17-2011, 09:10 PM   #92
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i STILL think her killer is likely either a neighbor or a criminal who had somehow been in the house before and knew the layout almost perfectly.
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Old 01-18-2011, 11:06 AM   #93
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While I understand how people think the intruder theory is so improbable, it does happen. Look at the Elizabeth Smart case. Just a few mistakes in a family's routine can cause disaster. The Ramsey home was not secured; the alarm system was not set that night, a door was unlocked, and the basement window was accessible.

A few things stick out to me, which makes me believe that an intruder killed JonBenet.

1. DNA was found on three distinctive places on JonBenet's body: her longjohns, her underwear and under her fingernails. This eliminates all speculation that the DNA came from an underwear factory worker as the DNA would not be found under her fingernails nor her longjohns. We know the DNA belongs to an unknown caucasion male. When and if he's found he better have a good explanation for his DNA being there.

2. The ransom note mentioning the $118,000 has always bothered me. If Patsy or John did in fact write the letter, why make the amount so obvious? If they wrote the letter then they tried to disguise themselves by altering the handwriting yet they mention such an exact amount of money? John and Patsy would be smarter than that. This makes me wonder if the killer worked within John's company and had knowledge of the bonus. Otherwise, Lou Smit has mentioned that a check stub for John's bonus was sitting out in the open on the night of the murder. So the information wouldn't have been to difficult to obtain.

3. The ransom note, in my opinion, is trying to sound too much like Patsy. Certain phrases (and not to mention the bonus amount) makes me wonder if the killer wanted to frame the Ramsey's. Again, if Patsy or John wrote that letter than they didn't do a sufficient job from trying to disguise themselves.

4. Nearly nine months after JonBenet's murder, a friend of her's from dance school, "Amy", was attacked and sexually assaulted by an unknown intruder while she slept. They speculated that this intruder broke into Amy's house in the hours before her assault. Luckily, her mother awoke to the sound of hushed whispers and scared the intruder away before he could further harm Amy. If you're not familiar with the story, here's a link: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in661569.shtml
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Old 01-18-2011, 12:13 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melanie85
While I understand how people think the intruder theory is so improbable, it does happen. Look at the Elizabeth Smart case. Just a few mistakes in a family's routine can cause disaster. The Ramsey home was not secured; the alarm system was not set that night, a door was unlocked, and the basement window was accessible.
yep very true, honestly, i do NOT think that this was a complete stranger, i think whoever did this at least been to the house, like a guy who did work on the house or knew the family and been in the house, the Ramsey's did it theory in my book fell apart when the DNA evidence didnt match. Unless the Ramsey's have ways of hiding their DNA (doubtful), then, i say they are innocent.
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Old 01-19-2011, 05:03 PM   #95
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Quote:
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yep very true, honestly, i do NOT think that this was a complete stranger, i think whoever did this at least been to the house, like a guy who did work on the house or knew the family and been in the house, the Ramsey's did it theory in my book fell apart when the DNA evidence didnt match. Unless the Ramsey's have ways of hiding their DNA (doubtful), then, i say they are innocent.

agree 100 percent here. we all can speculate and debate all we want, but when people are killed and the people who many claim to be guilty of the crime are found not to have dna at the scene or on their daughter, then i think its time to admit defeat or whatever and say, "the ramseys are innocent". Just as in the macdonald case, if dna evidence existed that pointed to the guilt of these people then fine. lock them up. convict and try them. Call them murders. But if no dna evidence points to their guilt, then again you have to come to the glaringly obvious conclusion that they are innocent.

Again, you cant murder and rape someone without leaving behind dna evidence. john and patsy's dna is nowhere at this crime scene, or on their daughter.
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Old 01-19-2011, 09:54 PM   #96
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Is everyone forgetting the DNA evidence that was found? It is mentioned in the E! most shocking unsolved crimes series - the DNA was determined to be from an "unknown male," not related to the Ramseys.
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Old 01-19-2011, 11:03 PM   #97
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Quote:
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agree 100 percent here. we all can speculate and debate all we want, but when people are killed and the people who many claim to be guilty of the crime are found not to have dna at the scene or on their daughter, then i think its time to admit defeat or whatever and say, "the ramseys are innocent". Just as in the macdonald case, if dna evidence existed that pointed to the guilt of these people then fine. lock them up. convict and try them. Call them murders. But if no dna evidence points to their guilt, then again you have to come to the glaringly obvious conclusion that they are innocent. Again, you cant murder and rape someone without leaving behind dna evidence. john and patsy's dna is nowhere at this crime scene, or on their daughter.
yep also agree with you 100%, if the DNA matched, i would be on the Ramsey's did it bandwaggon, BUT the fact is the DNA belongs to an unknown male who "I" feel likely knew the Ramsey's or worked for them or did some work for them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StackTime
Is everyone forgetting the DNA evidence that was found? It is mentioned in the E! most shocking unsolved crimes series - the DNA was determined to be from an "unknown male," not related to the Ramseys.
i think many people who think the Ramsey's did this either dont know about the evidence or dont care and think they somehow did it.
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Old 03-31-2011, 05:56 AM   #98
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Quote:
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2) And what's the hard part of believing that more than one person in the home was involved? The death of JonBenet would have affected the comfortable lifestyle they were experiencing. If one party (the one that didn't commit the crime) realized that, they might do anything to prevent that from occurring.
Absolutely. It does defy belief that more than one person with no prior history of abuse ganged up on JonBenét, but it is not only not out of the question that one person was guilty and others covered up, but the most likely scenario fitting known facts--especially statements and behavior of family members afterwards.

It occurred to me that just getting Burke, who was a child at the time, to talk about what, if anything, he may know, is not the answer here. He has been put in the position, either through things he heard at the time or since, of covering up for other people who covered up for the guilty--adults who were not present at the time, but know the truth, such as Patsy's sister and John's adult children. Perhaps the only way to get at the truth is to wait until John passes on and then offer the others immunity if they talk, because Burke could be protecting them and they might well outlive him.
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Old 03-31-2011, 01:36 PM   #99
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Something I'm curious about:

December 23 - 911 is called from Ramsey house during a party.
December 24 - JonBenet's grandfather flies back to Atlanta, STANDBY (Also, he was at the December 23 party)
December 25/26 - JonBenet killed. 911 called from Ramsey house on the morning of the 26th.

How many of you have dialed 911 within a space of 60 hours from your home? Possible? Maybe. I'd like to know more though.

If it was a kidnapping, why was she not, you know, kidnapped?

If it wasn't a kidnapping, why was there a ransom note left behind?

I know, I know. The DNA doesn't match any Ramsey. I can't ignore everything else though. The DNA was NOT from semen either. If it was semen, I would have a totally different view of things.
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Old 03-31-2011, 03:28 PM   #100
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but it doesn't change the fact that only three people could have committed that crime.
That is just flat-out untrue. How can you say that is a "fact?" There are lots of people who could have committed the crime. All of the "evidence" presented against the Ramseys so far has been circumstancial. For exampe, "the killer had to know the layout of the house." That does not mean that, because the Ramseys knew the layout of their own house, no one else could have done it. The Ramseys are also not the only ones who knew the amount of John's bonus that year. I understand that crimes are usually committed by people close to the victim, and that the idea of an intruder may be unlikely. But that does not make it impossible.

With that said, I don't really think the killer was a random stranger (though that is a possibility). I think it was someone who knew the Ramseys and had been in their home before, probably more than once. As for the killer hiding out in the house undiscovered, remember that the Ramsey house was huge and had several levels. I'm guessing someone could have hid in the basement all night and never been heard or seen.
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Old 04-01-2011, 09:21 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freshwater
Something I'm curious about:

December 23 - 911 is called from Ramsey house during a party.
December 24 - JonBenet's grandfather flies back to Atlanta, STANDBY (Also, he was at the December 23 party)
December 25/26 - JonBenet killed. 911 called from Ramsey house on the morning of the 26th.

How many of you have dialed 911 within a space of 60 hours from your home? Possible? Maybe. I'd like to know more though.

If it was a kidnapping, why was she not, you know, kidnapped?

If it wasn't a kidnapping, why was there a ransom note left behind?
As for the 911 call placed on 12/23, it was made by Fleet White (who later with John Ramsey discovered JB). Apparently, the Ramsey's had one of those phone systems where you dialed 9 to get an open line. So it's plausible he could have dialed 9 followed by a 1 to dial an area code and then for some reason dialed another 1.

Nobody will ever know why JB was found in the basement room and why her kidnapper did not indeed take her away. I have always believed it was an attempted kidnapping that just didn't pan out. It would be difficult to escape the basement as a small window was the clearest way out and I can imagine that would be very difficult to manage getting JB and himself out without causing a disturbance. It's also worth noting that a blue suitcase was situated directly underneath the open basement window. This suitcase had a sham and duvet inside and the fibers from the duvet were consistent with fibers found on JB's body. Obviously it's not a slam dunk, but it raises some very interesting possibilities that the kidnapper had attempted to take her away, failed, panicked and killed her in the cellar room.
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Old 08-06-2011, 02:06 PM   #102
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Sadly, JonBenét Patricia Ramsey, born August 6, 1990, would have been 21 today.
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Old 12-26-2012, 06:50 PM   #103
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Meant to bump this up yesterday. 16 years unsolved.
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Old 12-28-2012, 04:46 AM   #104
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Please visit websleuths.com for more info on this case.the posters there are highly informed about it.
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Old 08-09-2014, 04:25 PM   #105
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deleted

because apparently the post I was responding to was deleting while I was replying
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