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Old 11-22-2010, 01:51 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Killarney Rose
I'd like to add a few comments on this case. It just happens that we were at Panama City Beach when Pamela Ray disappeared. This case has always stuck with me. It rained the whole week we were there- a monsoon drenching rain. It was raining like that when she disappeared. I think I remember hearing or reading that this was one of the reasons there was so little evidence for investigators to find, and possibly why her cries for help might not have been heard. I am sure it's why she left the sleeping children in the locked car. i am very safety conscious, but remembering how that office was right there in the parking area, I would have done the same thing.
That's a good point. The rain alone would cause me to leave my kids in the car if all I was doing was going inside to check in.

Also, Pamela's daughter, Brandy, has commented on this thread and I was just reading over some comments and I noticed she said that the person they believe may have been responsible has been convicted of several other heinous crimes but did not want to reveal his name, which is understandable. It makes me wonder if its possibly Oba Chandler that she was referring to. You don't get much more heinous than what that bastard did and this would fit his MO.
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Old 11-22-2010, 02:58 PM   #47
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Oba lived in the Tampa bay area. PCB is a good 6-7 hours northwest of there. It would be interesting to know if he was in the area at the time she disappeared. I read a book about him, but it's been awhile. Were his victims only taken from the area near his home?
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Old 11-22-2010, 04:56 PM   #48
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Oba lived in the Tampa bay area. PCB is a good 6-7 hours northwest of there. It would be interesting to know if he was in the area at the time she disappeared. I read a book about him, but it's been awhile. Were his victims only taken from the area near his home?
No, he has had victims as far away as Canada. I wouldn't rule out Oba Chandler in any unsolved homicide during the 70's, 80's and early 90's.
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Old 11-23-2010, 03:48 PM   #49
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I just saw the Pamela Ray case for the first time and it is one of the most unfortunate segments I've seen because she was abducted/killed while her children were within earshot. And to top it all off a police officer drives by and in all likelihood witnesses her last moments alive...if only he would have driven by just five minutes after she may still be alive. Now I do have some puzzling questions about this case. I'm reading all over different websites that witnesses say they saw this white man following Pamela through the parking lot but in the UM segment, the Panama City sergeant says that the officer who drove by the hotel saw Pamela following the man in the parking lot. So which one was it? I personally think that she did drive up expecting to find a key left for her in a mail slot and she couldn't find one so she tried knocking on the door (which attracted this white man's attention who had to be lurking nearby) and he probably posed as a hotel employee or even less likely someone who was willing to share a room which is why she was seen following him. I don't think this guy was just a passerby, I think he was staying at the hotel. 5:30 in the morning is not the best time to be out looking for potential victims especially in a vacation spot area. So I think he was staying at the hotel and I think he held her in his room, killed her, then disposed of her body. But if that was the case would her abducter be brazen enough to keep her in a room in a hotel where her screams were heard just hours before? Wouldn't he want to get the hell out of dodge? And if he wasn't staying at the hotel or a nearby hotel, how did he manage to abduct her without much of a fight? He obviously didn't have a gun or else Pamela wouldn't have been screaming for help like she was. This makes me think he grabbed her and a struggle ensued as he was trying to abduct her...but if there was a struggle in the parking lot, one of the guests should have witnessed something (man getting into a vehicle, a vehicle speeding away, the man and Pamela fighting) but no one says they saw anything, they just heard her screams. We have all of these witnesses say they saw her sitting in her car at 5 a.m., and how they observed her going from hotel to hotel, then why didn't anyone see any signs of a struggle in the parking lot? And what were these witnesses doing out and about at 5 in the morning on a weekend at the beach? (Not saying that just because someone is up early in the morning they must be up to no good, but I just find it a bit odd.) Obviously the first thing someone will do when they hear someone screaming for help is get up and look out the window, why wasn't there anything seen? I guess the most fortunate thing about the whole case was that the kids weren't awoken by her screams for help.

And I wouldn't rule Oba Chandler out on anything either...it fits his MO that he targets women on vacation with their children with no husband present.
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Old 11-23-2010, 07:24 PM   #50
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I had never thought of Oba Chandler being the abductor, but if it was him, and he had a target "type" of victim picked out, that would explain his presense in the parking lot at that time. He could've been in PCB trolling for victims.
I think it was a week day, not the weekend.

The Wilhite, as many other older hotels at that time, as stated previously,did weekly as well as one day rentals. Many families in the region went to them on their vacations, and had for years. We did, at a different motel. I've been there as recently as 10 years ago in a couple of these older motels(they are all gone now and replaced by new hotels and condos)and they also rented by the week to construction workers that were down there working. Oba could have blended right in with that crowd.

Regardless of whether is was Oba or someone else, he could have been in the office and heard the desk clerk talking to Pamela so he was laying in wait expecting her when she got there. He could have pretended to work at the hotel till he got her near his truck and and then grabbed her and put her in and drove away. This was when she screamed.

It was raining heavily that morning. I still remember it, stuck in a condo with 4 unhappy kids, the news was on and the story was all over it, and cop cars everywhere.
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Old 11-23-2010, 08:02 PM   #51
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But Oba had the profile of sweet talking and befriending his victims or potential victims..and his seeming manner of murder was by taking them out on a boat ride. He seems to be more of the "charmer-killer"--a little more methodical, planning the murder out for a while. Patiently waiting.
Look at the Rogers murder--He was in touch with them for at least a few days, planning the act. He even led them to their hotel.

Similar sort of thing with the woman he raped--Same sort of methodical, superficial facade, cunning and planning going into it.

Ray's killer sounds more like a random psychopath--a little less sophisticated than Oba was, just a random lurking nut-- someone who would grab a woman off the streets and kill her. That doesn't seem to fit Oba's profile.

The only thing that fits with Oba is the fact that was a woman vacationing alone with kids. But there's no evidence Oba was there that night.
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Old 11-24-2010, 12:50 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killarney Rose
Regardless of whether is was Oba or someone else, he could have been in the office and heard the desk clerk talking to Pamela so he was laying in wait expecting her when she got there. He could have pretended to work at the hotel till he got her near his truck and and then grabbed her and put her in and drove away. This was when she screamed.
That is a very good point. Perhaps the killer was just someone that happened to be there and heard the conversation. I'd love to have Pamela's daughter come back to the board and share more on this case but I completely understand her and her family wanting privacy.
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Old 11-24-2010, 02:20 PM   #53
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I don't remember seeing/reading anything about a conversation between Pamela and a desk clerk. I thought she showed up after hours expecting to have a key waiting for her in a mail slot and when there wasn't one she began knocking on the door. I think the knocking on the door is what roused this guy to come out and pose as a motel employee which is why she was seen following the man.
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Old 11-24-2010, 02:31 PM   #54
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I don't remember seeing/reading anything about a conversation between Pamela and a desk clerk. I thought she showed up after hours expecting to have a key waiting for her in a mail slot and when there wasn't one she began knocking on the door. I think the knocking on the door is what roused this guy to come out and pose as a motel employee which is why she was seen following the man.
Your right, there was no face to face conversation. What we were alluding to is when Pamela called the motel while she was on her way and spoke to the manager. The killer may have been with the manager (possibly a guest checking in or out or getting a new motel room key) when the conversation happened and heard enough details that he knew who to look for and when to look for her.
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Old 11-24-2010, 03:30 PM   #55
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Your right, there was no face to face conversation. What we were alluding to is when Pamela called the motel while she was on her way and spoke to the manager. The killer may have been with the manager (possibly a guest checking in or out or getting a new motel room key) when the conversation happened and heard enough details that he knew who to look for and when to look for her.
Gotcha. While this is very likely that the conversation could have been overheard in the motel lobby, I don't think it's likely that Pamela would have been able to pinpoint her exact time of her arrival at the motel. So how would this guy know when to attack? What if she stopped for a quick nap or bathroom breaks and didn't arrive until seven or eight in the morning? If he was deadset on abducting this woman based off of one sole conversation that he only heard one side of (the desk clerk), he had balls the size of church bells. First he wouldn't know if she would be with her husband or adult male that could have posed a potential threat? And what if her kids were awake and with her when she was outside trying to obtain the keys? Then we have the possibility that she stops off at another motel along her route and calls it a night, why would this guy wait up all hours of the night just over one phone call? He had to have seen her trying to open up the doors and/or knocking on them and I think that is how he was drawn to her. This guy is a sick mf'er, so wouldn't he be more likely to target another victim at another motel instead of lounging around outside all hours of the night just waiting for this alleged caller to arrive?

One other thing has been kind of bugging me about this case. Witnesses say that Pamela arrived and began pulling into the various motels in the area a little before five in the morning. If she already had a key waiting for her at another motel, what would be her reason to do this? Unless she went there first and saw that there was no key and that the place was closed, then checked the other motels in the area. But if that's the case why drive back knowning that the motel lobby was deserted and closed and they didn't leave a key for her?
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Old 11-24-2010, 09:17 PM   #56
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One other thing has been kind of bugging me about this case. Witnesses say that Pamela arrived and began pulling into the various motels in the area a little before five in the morning. If she already had a key waiting for her at another motel, what would be her reason to do this? Unless she went there first and saw that there was no key and that the place was closed, then checked the other motels in the area. But if that's the case why drive back knowning that the motel lobby was deserted and closed and they didn't leave a key for her?
The UM segment just mentioned she had arranged a vacation in Panama city but did not mentioned she had pre-booked anything. It went on to say that after arriving at around 4:30am, she tried several motels in the area with no luck, then showed her knocking on 1 particular motel. Several witnesses observed her "sitting in her car" at 5am.

Another issue, it mentions guests were "jolted awake" 5 mins after the patrol car went by by "piercing screams". Now, if you were "jolted awake", what would you do, roll over and go back to sleep? I think I would be scared out of my wits and awake most of the night.
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Old 11-24-2010, 09:58 PM   #57
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The UM segment just mentioned she had arranged a vacation in Panama city but did not mentioned she had pre-booked anything. It went on to say that after arriving at around 4:30am, she tried several motels in the area with no luck, then showed her knocking on 1 particular motel. Several witnesses observed her "sitting in her car" at 5am.

Another issue, it mentions guests were "jolted awake" 5 mins after the patrol car went by by "piercing screams". Now, if you were "jolted awake", what would you do, roll over and go back to sleep? I think I would be scared out of my wits and awake most of the night.
That's what's always bugged me about this. I don't know Ms. Ray, but I can't believe that she would have driven several hundred miles on a "vacation" w/ two kids and didn't have a hotel room lined up in advance. None of the major chains had rooms?

Also, after driving at night for several hundred miles and finding no rooms available,wouldn't most people have stopped a restaurant and fed the kids, or at least got yourself some coffee?

The motel, according to the episode, didn't have phones in the rooms. What kind of motel that you would let your kids stay in wouldn't have a phone in the room? And if there were no phones in the rooms and guests heard "piercing screams" (their words) why didn't anybody go outside to check things out or at least provide assistance?

IMHO, (and no, I'm not trying to bash the victim) Ms. Ray's behavior sounds to me like she was high on drugs or was attempting score when she met w/ the wrong person.

Think about: A patrol car passed and her and the person she was "chatting with" AT FIVE AM move around the side of the building out of sight?

She drives several hundreds miles at night and decides to stop at a fleabag motel w/ her kids after stopping at several other places first?

She was chatting w/ complete stranger at 5am in front of a motel that she's unfamiliar?

My thoughts on this was she was trying to score drugs and she ran into the wrong person or people and met w/ tragedy.
I think that the police should have emphasized this, not to bash her as a victim, but maybe to jog the memories (or work on the guilt) of people who may know more than they are telling or have told.

At this late date, I think that the only thing that will "solve" this case is going to be a confession by her killer or by somebody that helped the killer out.
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Old 11-24-2010, 10:13 PM   #58
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IMHO, (and no, I'm not trying to bash the victim) Ms. Ray's behavior sounds to me like she was high on drugs or was attempting score when she met w/ the wrong person.
I actually thought EXACTLY the same thing (attempting to score), though thought it would not be nice to openly state. It would be the right time of night with not too many around to observe anything, that's for sure.


It could actually have been something like that and because she had no money on her (she left her purse in the car remember), the killer decided he would like a piece of her instead as payment and she refused - hence the screams and hence how the whole thing turned out in the end.


I think I mentioned it before... it may just have been the way the segment was portrayed on UM but I thought the area looked a little seedy/run-down and perfect for such kinds of low-life to be hanging around (the killer that is, not PJR), so maybe it was intentional that PJR stopped at this particular area because she expected there to be such low-lifes around?
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Old 11-24-2010, 10:39 PM   #59
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I actually thought EXACTLY the same thing (attempting to score), though thought it would not be nice to openly state. It would be the right time of night with not too many around to observe anything, that's for sure.


It could actually have been something like that and because she had no money on her (she left her purse in the car remember), the killer decided he would like a piece of her instead as payment and she refused - hence the screams and hence how the whole thing turned out in the end.


I think I mentioned it before... it may just have been the way the segment was portrayed on UM but I thought the area looked a little seedy/run-down and perfect for such kinds of low-life to be hanging around (the killer that is, not PJR), so maybe it was intentional that PJR stopped at this particular area because she expected there to be such low-lifes around?
Again, I wasn't trying denigrate the victim. I just think that when you are looking for a missing person (or a killer) that the majority of pertinent information available needs to be released, especially in cold cases.
Would that result in some cranks?
Sure.
But the chances of receiving legitimate information are high enough to make it worthwhile,IMHO.

Pamela June Ray's behavior prior to her disappearance was very odd. It's understandable if it was the result of her being under the influence. And if they person (people) involved w/ her disappearance were trafficking drugs in the area, then the search for them might have gone faster (and even resulted in an arrest) had this type of information been released to the public.
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Old 11-26-2010, 12:54 PM   #60
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I don't think Pamela was attempting to score any drugs. She would have taken her purse for one thing, and who goes looking for drugs at 5 am in the morning at a vacation spot motel? Let alone the fact that she had her kids with her! I'm sure LE looked into that possibility, and it almost certainly would have been mentioned on the UM segment if she had a previous drug habbit. I just don't buy it. And yes the UM segment never mentioned that keys were supposed to be left for her, but her alleged daughter made a post on here saying that her aunt had made arrangements for keys to be left in a mail slot when she arrived. If this is true, it would account for her knocking on the door, sitting in her car, and checking out all the other motels in the area. I still think the man who did this posed as a motel employee, but I find it odd that she wasn't alerted when the man didn't go into the motel office but instead walked in the direction of the pool. Maybe she was a little cautious of this man which is why she locked her purse and her children in the car.

I still don't understand how none of the motel guests saw ANYTHING at all. When you hear screams you usually look to see where they are coming, why didn't anyone see a struggle in the parking lot, car speeding away, etc.?
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