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Old 03-15-2008, 08:35 PM   #46
angelina26
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I was there in the courtroom when this demonstration by the so-called knot expert happened. And he said he was not knowledgeable about tying yourself up when under the influence of drugs or alcohol.
Without having drugs in his system it took him approximately three minutes to tie the knots and loops for all four limbs, slip his feet into two loops, tie a ligature around his neck and then slip his hands into the remaining two loops, step through his hands so they would be bound behind his back, and fall over onto his side, as Cindy’s body was found.
Note: He admitted he felt lightheaded several seconds after tying the ligature around his neck but his breathing was not impaired. So add massive drugs in the system –wouldn’t a person be fumbling?
And he said a few more things (which didn't get into the media. And one of them happened to be a very important point about how the knots in his demonstration were different from th ones in Cindy's death ligature!)...but I'll be mentioning those other points in my Blog in a few days.

And Hall wasn't the drug expert and nobody said it would have taken 15 minutes for the drugs to take effect -- the effect of the drugs would have been dependent upon when she took them and nobody can know for certain the timeline for that. Remember, there were no containers with drug residue at the site so if she took all those pills (as opposed to someone injecting the morphine - murder for sure in that case) she downed them somewhere else. (Otherwise there would have been drug residue in her pockets or a container or on her hands or somewhere near her because she would have had to carry them there.)

We said the same thing before we read this because we were like "well she was a nurse I know that have to know lethal doses with body weight blah blah blah" but again where was the residue of anyone who administered it...

I dont trust Neal Hall he always looked crooked to me and very out to "promote" himself as a "serious" reporter..his logic never made sense to me or anyone else for that matter...
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Old 03-15-2008, 08:49 PM   #47
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We said the same thing before we read this because we were like "well she was a nurse I know that have to know lethal doses with body weight blah blah blah" but again where was the residue of anyone who administered it...
Are you saying you agree that since there was no residue at the scene Cindy could not have had enough time to take the drugs somewhere else, get there, arrange everything, and tie herself up?! (I don't think she would have had enough time, but I'm not a medical expert.)
And if somebody else injected her with morphine (she had an injection mark on her inner elbow) that means she was killed and dumped there and the killer for sure would not have left any residue (syringe) or clues.
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Old 03-15-2008, 08:58 PM   #48
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Are you saying you agree that since there was no residue at the scene Cindy could not have had enough time to take the drugs somewhere else, get there, arrange everything, and tie herself up?! (I don't think she would have had enough time, but I'm not a medical expert.)
And if somebody else injected her with morphine (she had an injection mark on her inner elbow) that means she was killed and dumped there and the killer for sure would not have left any residue (syringe) or clues.
The absence of residue is the main thing for me but no I dont think she had enough time to do all that...I agree we are not medical experts but we have better common sense then Neal Hall...

The whole needle mark was not mentioned in the UM segment, although I have not paid attention sometimes and could have missed that part. My thought process is there are always sloppy killers who leave something behind and they get caught or want to get caught and then there are some killers who are very very good and have not gotten captured yet...
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Old 03-15-2008, 10:59 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by LaToyaBoy
No, I think Cindy was a mentally confused person and did all of that to herself. Like softenthesilence has stated there are CRAZY people out there with serious problems. I do not doubt that CJ was one of these.

And while on the subject of the case her parents were totally errie in the segment, her mother seemed to be scared of something and her father came off as a total control freak. F-R-E-A-K-Y!
I know people are entitled to their opinion but I feel sorry for Cindy and her family. Cindy is someone's daughter and sister. Cindy's sister (purplerose) does read and comment on this board.
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Old 03-15-2008, 11:02 PM   #50
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I know people are entitled to their opinion on what they think what happened with a specific case but you should use a little more decorum on what you say....obviously you have not read the entire thread but purplerose is CJ's sister...and those parents you talked about are purplerose's parents as well...maybe you should read threads before saying anything to that effect because there are more users on this board that have tie ins with the people involved with the case...

Well said.

Also, remember that a 15 minute segment on UM does not necessarily tell the whole story. No one seems to know what happened for sure, and I highly doubt the UM segment gives us enough to make a truly definitive decision.

That said, we're all entitled to our own opinion, but as angelina said, try to remember the victim was someone's daughter and someone's sister.

Peace, all. . .
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Old 03-16-2008, 02:36 AM   #51
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I just listened to the phone call that was on the W5 report and on Cindy's sister's website. The caller sounded like a female trying to disguise her voice. Does anyone agree or disagree with that?

Last edited by crystaldawn; 03-16-2008 at 07:44 AM.
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Old 03-16-2008, 11:45 AM   #52
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I just listened to the phone call that was on the W5 report and on Cindy's sister's website. The caller sounded like a female trying to disguise her voice. Does anyone agree or disagree with that?
That is certainly my impression.
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Old 03-16-2008, 11:47 AM   #53
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I dont trust Neal Hall he always looked crooked to me and very out to "promote" himself as a "serious" reporter..his logic never made sense to me or anyone else for that matter...
You may not agree with his logic, but Neal Hall is pretty much a straight shooter and not much of a self promoter.
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Old 03-16-2008, 12:00 PM   #54
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You may not agree with his logic, but Neal Hall is pretty much a straight shooter and not much of a self promoter.

Usually reporters don't have an agenda or bias, so they can see things for what they aren't. Not that they can't be biased, but I got the impression that while investigating this Neal Hall definitely saw things that made him question if this was for real or not.

The problem in my mind is that there is really nothing that happened that couldn't have been done by Cindy herself. No offense intended, purple rose, but I think that is where the questions come from. That doesn't mean she DID do it herself, but nothing can prove she didn't.

So if it is real, I'm sure that's what probably drove Cindy crazy. At the same time, that's why Neal Hall would never by into it, and that is the Catch-22 of this case.
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Old 03-16-2008, 03:27 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Todd Mueller
Usually reporters don't have an agenda or bias, so they can see things for what they aren't. Not that they can't be biased, but I got the impression that while investigating this Neal Hall definitely saw things that made him question if this was for real or not.

The problem in my mind is that there is really nothing that happened that couldn't have been done by Cindy herself. No offense intended, purple rose, but I think that is where the questions come from. That doesn't mean she DID do it herself, but nothing can prove she didn't.

So if it is real, I'm sure that's what probably drove Cindy crazy. At the same time, that's why Neal Hall would never by into it, and that is the Catch-22 of this case.
Ian Mulgrew is another very well-respected Canadian reporter who wrote a book about this case and my understanding is that his view is similar to Hall's.
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Old 03-17-2008, 12:00 AM   #56
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The problem in my mind is that there is really nothing that happened that couldn't have been done by Cindy herself. No offense intended, purple rose, but I think that is where the questions come from. That doesn't mean she DID do it herself, but nothing can prove she didn't.
Are you forgetting about the fact that one of the police officers answered a threatening call at Cindy's house when she was at work...and the fact that another officer was present with Cindy when a call came in...and that Agnes was with Cindy on at least one occasion when Cindy's lines were cut and that Agnes and Agnes's husband were in the house with Cindy when some of the threatening notes were left. (Maybe those facts weren't in the UM segment?)
So there were incidents that happened that Cindy could not have done! So obviously somebody else did THOSE things...we just don't know who! So she WAS being harassed (at least on those occasions by someone else) but that doesn't tell us about her death (whether it was murder or suicide).
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Old 03-17-2008, 12:30 AM   #57
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Are you forgetting about the fact that one of the police officers answered a threatening call at Cindy's house when she was at work...and the fact that another officer was present with Cindy when a call came in...and that Agnes was with Cindy on at least one occasion when Cindy's lines were cut and that Agnes and Agnes's husband were in the house with Cindy when some of the threatening notes were left. (Maybe those facts weren't in the UM segment?)
So there were incidents that happened that Cindy could not have done! So obviously somebody else did THOSE things...we just don't know who! So she WAS being harassed (at least on those occasions by someone else) but that doesn't tell us about her death (whether it was murder or suicide).

Purple rose:

None of those things were mentioned in the UM story. For the record, I should have said "based on the UM story" there was nothing they could confirm. I'm not sure if that was the information they had or if they presented it that way to make the story better. But based on what they did show, there was nothing they could confirm. In fact, that was the central part of Neal Hall's argument during the segment. He kept saying there was nothing they could confirm and that all things could have been done by Cindy (both the harrassment and the murder/suicide).

Again, I mean no disrespect to you or your sister's memory. We are just discussing the case as it was shown on UM.

Here's another question: Did you and/or your parents view the UM segment before it aired? The reason I'm asking is if there were incidents that could be confirmed (like you mentioned) then maybe that should have been included?

I hope what I said didn't make you mad. I said it because that's how it was portrayed on UM and that is why so many of us are on the fence as to what really happened.

Best regards,

TM
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Old 03-17-2008, 10:39 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tighthead
You may not agree with his logic, but Neal Hall is pretty much a straight shooter and not much of a self promoter.
I myself am a straight shooter and tell it like it is so Neal and I have that in common but his logic didn't make sense and his tone was very belittling..so in my opinion he is no more of an expert than anyone else.
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Old 03-17-2008, 04:24 PM   #59
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Purple rose:

None of those things were mentioned in the UM story. For the record, I should have said "based on the UM story" there was nothing they could confirm. I'm not sure if that was the information they had or if they presented it that way to make the story better. But based on what they did show, there was nothing they could confirm. In fact, that was the central part of Neal Hall's argument during the segment. He kept saying there was nothing they could confirm and that all things could have been done by Cindy (both the harrassment and the murder/suicide).

Again, I mean no disrespect to you or your sister's memory. We are just discussing the case as it was shown on UM.

Here's another question: Did you and/or your parents view the UM segment before it aired? The reason I'm asking is if there were incidents that could be confirmed (like you mentioned) then maybe that should have been included?

I hope what I said didn't make you mad. I said it because that's how it was portrayed on UM and that is why so many of us are on the fence as to what really happened.

Best regards,

TM
Oh, don’t get me wrong…I’m not upset.
But I am frustrated because it sounds like there are so many facts people are missing (and that’s why I said before that some of the printed material and shows already “out there” are other people’s speculated ideas of the truth – they are missing facts!)
As far as seeing the UM segment, no I didn’t see it before it was aired, in fact I didn’t even know it was being made at the time (my father was the person in the family who was contacted about all the programs that were being made about Cindy and he didn’t tell other family members until it was too late—I would have liked to have given my two-cents worth before any of the segments were complete, but probably not on camera).
In August 1991 I did see the Current Affair presentation of the “Cindy James mystery” and thought the producers had really sensationalized the information and presented it quite dramatically.
And I don’t know if my father previewed any of the shows that were made about Cindy’s case.
And about what Hall said in the W-5 segment, he was referring to the death scene having no real conclusive evidence to determine whether it was murder or suicide. I don't recall what he said in the UM segment -- guess I'll have to watch it again... (But if he said there was nothing they could confirmm and that ALL things could have been done by Cindy, well then he's simply incorrect.)
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Old 03-17-2008, 06:13 PM   #60
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I myself am a straight shooter and tell it like it is so Neal and I have that in common but his logic didn't make sense and his tone was very belittling..so in my opinion he is no more of an expert than anyone else.
And that makes him crooked?
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