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Old 02-04-2007, 01:01 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justins5256
Ever notice how it's always the CIA?
When it comes to taking out high profile targets and making it look like the work of a lone crazed killer who else would pull the strings? JFK, RFK, Martin Luther King,George Wallace, John Lennon, Ronald Reagan, all had the same story to their deaths or attempted deaths. Crazed maniac shoots and kills for whatever reason, lots of cover ups and unanswered questions left.
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Old 02-04-2007, 08:38 AM   #32
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One point I have always made about the JFK conspiracy is that the amount of people that Oliver Stone claimed to be involved with this case would have had to have a huge convention in order to plan this.
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Old 02-04-2007, 12:40 PM   #33
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Kane7474,

If you get a chance, you should really read "American Assassins: The Darker Side of Politics" by Dr. James Clarke. The book is a compilation of psychological profiles of a handful of famous assassins. I checked my copy for you, and Oswald, Sirhan, Bremer and James Earl Ray are included among others. There is no mention of Hinckley, but I see that Clarke has written another book called "John Hinckley Jr. and other Dangerous People" so that may be of some interest. Unlike other books, this book does not get into the mechanics of each assassination or assassination attempt. As I said, it gives in depth psychological profiles of the assassins, and even has excerpts from their diaries. Arthur Bremer's was particularly memorable. Once you read about these men's lives and backgrounds, I think you'll reach a similar conclusion that I did: these guys really were "lone nuts" and not the products of conspiracy.

The problem with conspiracy theories in general is that they rely heavily on scattered, often provable, facts. Yet, there is a larger underlying idea that ties these facts together, and that concept is NOT provable, but is, in fact, difficult to disprove. I don't mean this to sound insulting, but you really should consider going to a community college and taking "criminology 101" or a basic introductory criminal justice course. You may even be able to audit the course which means that you won't have to take exams or have it count for any credit. The reason I'm suggesting this is because I think you'll learn that even simple conspiracies are difficult to pull off.

Then step back and look at the enormous conspiracy theory that you and others are perpetuating, and ask yourself "does this make sense?"

I'm saying all this because I once was where you are. But, there comes a point when you just have to step back, assess the facts, set aside internet rumor and realize that the simple explanation may in fact be the correct one.
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Old 02-12-2007, 02:35 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justins5256
Kane7474,

If you get a chance, you should really read "American Assassins: The Darker Side of Politics" by Dr. James Clarke. The book is a compilation of psychological profiles of a handful of famous assassins. I checked my copy for you, and Oswald, Sirhan, Bremer and James Earl Ray are included among others. There is no mention of Hinckley, but I see that Clarke has written another book called "John Hinckley Jr. and other Dangerous People" so that may be of some interest. Unlike other books, this book does not get into the mechanics of each assassination or assassination attempt. As I said, it gives in depth psychological profiles of the assassins, and even has excerpts from their diaries. Arthur Bremer's was particularly memorable. Once you read about these men's lives and backgrounds, I think you'll reach a similar conclusion that I did: these guys really were "lone nuts" and not the products of conspiracy.

The problem with conspiracy theories in general is that they rely heavily on scattered, often provable, facts. Yet, there is a larger underlying idea that ties these facts together, and that concept is NOT provable, but is, in fact, difficult to disprove. I don't mean this to sound insulting, but you really should consider going to a community college and taking "criminology 101" or a basic introductory criminal justice course. You may even be able to audit the course which means that you won't have to take exams or have it count for any credit. The reason I'm suggesting this is because I think you'll learn that even simple conspiracies are difficult to pull off.

Then step back and look at the enormous conspiracy theory that you and others are perpetuating, and ask yourself "does this make sense?"

I'm saying all this because I once was where you are. But, there comes a point when you just have to step back, assess the facts, set aside internet rumor and realize that the simple explanation may in fact be the correct one.
Allright so your saying all of these people were "lone nuts" right? There were no conspiracys by government agencies? If Im reading you correctly you seem to think that certain people are just crazed enough to pick a high profile target and take them out right? If your theory is true then please explain why assasinations in this country have stopped? Was there just one wave of insane assasains born with this predisposition to murder politicians and other high profile people? As I see it the assasination era of this country started with JFK and ended with Reagan. So what happened to the Oswald types, the Sirhans, the hinkley or Earl Ray people? Do you beileve that after the 1960s people were no longer born with the high profile killer gene, or is it possible that now with the media under government control we no longer need to kill someone to take them out. It's much easier nowadays to destroy someone publicly without having to off them. Is it also possible that with all the rumours and leaks about the CIA and FBI plotting to assasinate people they can no longer afford the risk of carrying out such actions? When it comes to JFK maybe you should study the life of Julius Ceaser, there are many comparisons to be made, one of which being there were plenty of people involved and no one was brought to justice.
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Old 02-12-2007, 11:24 PM   #35
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A BBC Newsnight special, highlighting the Assassination of JFK's brother, RFK, features an interview w/an aquaintance (ex lawyer) of former CIA operative David Morales........this aquantance has quoted Morales (not sure if I got his name right) as saying "I was in Dallas when we got that mother------ and I was in Los Angeles when got the little bas****"

The Newsnight special goes on to say Morales and 2-3 other operatives were absolutely incensed at the Kennedy's for withdrawing air support during the Bay of Pigs invasion and that this was the driving reason behind their intense hatred for JFK/RFK
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Old 05-02-2007, 10:53 PM   #36
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Here's something new for all of you complicent kool aid drinkers that that beleive Oswald acted alone. E Howard Hunt made a tape on his death bed where he basically reveals all of the details behind the assasination of JFK. As most of us already new many high level government and military people were involved. The tapes are airing on certain radio shows now and I will post a transcipt as soon as I have one.
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Old 05-10-2007, 12:55 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kane7474
Here's something new for all of you complicent kool aid drinkers that that beleive Oswald acted alone. E Howard Hunt made a tape on his death bed where he basically reveals all of the details behind the assasination of JFK. As most of us already new many high level government and military people were involved. The tapes are airing on certain radio shows now and I will post a transcipt as soon as I have one.
Ha! I missed this gem while on my trip.

Now there's a reliable source, convicted Watergate felon E. Howard Hunt. How many years did he spend in jail again?

And here we are again with the improper use of words. Hunt didn't reveal or admit anything. He made ridiculous CLAIMS. I just read them and they are predictably non-specific and flimsy. He naturally wants to shoot for the other party so he identifies Lyndon Johnson as the source of the plot to kill JFK. How hard am I allowed to laugh? The old I'm-desperate-to-be-president-so-I'll-knock-off-the-boss routine.

Sure. The boss whose brother just happens to be attorney general. And I'll make sure it's done in my home state. Might as well put a black mark on Dallas, Texas forever. And he gets the grassy knoll in there, with a French gunman pulling the trigger. This is great stuff. There's also a part where one of the principals is willing to go along because JFK had an affair with his wife and therefore his life is basically over and he's willing to kill JFK. Let's sneak in all the stereotypes and sub plots.

Did I mention that Hunt wrote novels in his post-Watergate pathetic life?

Let's see, Oswald can be traced to buying the specific rifle. He took the job at the Book Depository before JFK's trip was planned or the route known. He took a pot shot through the window at General Walker in an attempted assassination with the same rifle. He was a marksman in the military. He brought a suspicious package he called curtain rods to work that day. He fled the building immediately and killed officer Tippett. He hid in the theater before being captured.

Nope. Nothing there. Obviously we're supposed to believe the latest wacko instead, in a desperate attempt to earn posthumous publicity for his sorry criminal life.

No thank you. I have multiple functioning brain cells.
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Old 05-10-2007, 07:46 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Awsi Dooger
Ha! I missed this gem while on my trip.

Now there's a reliable source, convicted Watergate felon E. Howard Hunt. How many years did he spend in jail again?

And here we are again with the improper use of words. Hunt didn't reveal or admit anything. He made ridiculous CLAIMS. I just read them and they are predictably non-specific and flimsy. He naturally wants to shoot for the other party so he identifies Lyndon Johnson as the source of the plot to kill JFK. How hard am I allowed to laugh? The old I'm-desperate-to-be-president-so-I'll-knock-off-the-boss routine.

Sure. The boss whose brother just happens to be attorney general. And I'll make sure it's done in my home state. Might as well put a black mark on Dallas, Texas forever. And he gets the grassy knoll in there, with a French gunman pulling the trigger. This is great stuff. There's also a part where one of the principals is willing to go along because JFK had an affair with his wife and therefore his life is basically over and he's willing to kill JFK. Let's sneak in all the stereotypes and sub plots.

Did I mention that Hunt wrote novels in his post-Watergate pathetic life?

Let's see, Oswald can be traced to buying the specific rifle. He took the job at the Book Depository before JFK's trip was planned or the route known. He took a pot shot through the window at General Walker in an attempted assassination with the same rifle. He was a marksman in the military. He brought a suspicious package he called curtain rods to work that day. He fled the building immediately and killed officer Tippett. He hid in the theater before being captured.

Nope. Nothing there. Obviously we're supposed to believe the latest wacko instead, in a desperate attempt to earn posthumous publicity for his sorry criminal life.

No thank you. I have multiple functioning brain cells.
Did you miss the part where he said that Oswald was indeed involved? You also seem to leave off in your timeline of events that Oswald was murdered. Can you explain that? Why did someone want to keep him silent? Howard Hunt made these tapes when he was near death and had nothing to gain by them. You say he was trying to blame the other party but forget that he also implicated himself.
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Old 11-23-2011, 12:33 AM   #39
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(Robert Kennedy / Sirhan Sirhan)

Regarding RFK's assassination, I ran across this article today. It's from 3/1/2011, so Kennedy followers may already be aware of it, but it's news to me.

Sirhan Sirhan's lawyer planned to present new evidence at the parole board hearing scheduled for 3/14/2011, suggesting that Sirhan did not act alone, was potentially brain washed and cannot remember anything about the assassination.

The lawyer states, "There is no question he was hypno-programmed. He was set up. He was used. He was manipulated." He said that he believes Sirhan was brainwashed to kill Kennedy and then his memories were deliberately erased via the hypno-programming procedure. also and with a bit of this : .

Cyril Wecht even weighs in with his opinion that it's scientifically plausible to hypnotize someone and induce them to murder. He just doesn't know if there was enough evidence to suggest that in Sirhan's case.

The article explains that parole hearings are typically not the platform to introduce new evidence, or retry a case. Boards typically want to hear convicts express remorse for their crimes, not deny remembering them.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/robert-kenn...0#.TswFBWPTppw
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Old 11-18-2014, 05:38 AM   #40
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Regarding the assassination of John F. Kennedy, I go back and forth on that. Yes, there is ample evidence that plenty of individuals and groups with massive motives wanted Kennedy dead, and some interesting coincidences beginning with how many of these people were in Dallas that day. For those who believe in a government conspiracy regarding UFOs (and for those who don't, Lord help your poor innocent souls ), it's interesting that Kennedy is the only president since the coverups began to demand full disclosure. Ten days after doing so, he was dead. If that had anything to do with it, he wouldn't be the first or the last, which is one of many reasons the government cannot make full disclosure.

There are also indications that shots were fired from behind a fence which would have been in front of Kennedy at the time (gunshots heard from there, suspicious activity seen, etc.) Now, there is no indication (proven) that any shots fired from the front actually hit him--but isn't it interesting that if Oswald would have missed, someone else was perhaps ready to do the job? Not to mention the autopsy was botched in the first place, a lot of materials are missing from it and JFK's brain hasn't been accounted for since 1965.

That being said, there is a lot of evidence for Oswald acting alone, a few examples of which are:

1. If the C. I. A. and whoever else wanted JFK dead, why would they recruit a nutjob like Oswald?

2. How would they even get in touch with Oswald to let him know where and when to carry out the hit? He was there because he already worked in the building! (Granted, he knew enough in advance to pick up the rifle from its hiding place--it's not as if he kept a rifle at work all the time.)

3. Any advanced organization planning the crime of the century wouldn't supply their hitman with the crappiest gun available--one with which an expert marksman can barely fire that number of shots in that amount of time, (which has been tried numerous times and shown to be possible, but with great skill required), let alone with that degree of deadly accuracy (two hits out of three shots--the third not only fatal but quite devastating in terms of damage).

So, okay, you've almost got me convinced of Oswald acting alone, with maybe someone else lying in wait working separately from Oswald, and maybe even attempting to shoot Kennedy at the same time, but not hitting him.

BUT--AND I CANNOT BELIEVE HOW COMPLETELY I DIDN'T SEE THIS UNTIL YESTERDAY--

AFTER SEEING THE ZAPRUDER FILM COUNTLESS TIMES (and I need hardly say Warning: Graphic, right? I remember the newscaster the first time it was on TV, "For God's sake, get Granny and the kids out of the room!"--) I guess I just spent my time trying to see which way he was falling, to tell where the shot may have come from, instead of looking closely at its effect.

I SIMPLY MUST ASK:

How is the film showing a COMPLETELY different wound than the autopsy photos?

http://assassinationscience.com/john...tro/wound.html

Film shows him getting blasted in the side of the head in front of the right ear, with almost certainly some damage to the face and NONE to the back of the head! Autopsy photos show undamaged face and extensive damage on top of and back of the head, behind the ear!

http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/autopsy.htm

As for RFK, yes, that was a conspiracy. Guess I'll post that on a thread dedicated to that case, though.
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Old 11-19-2014, 04:14 AM   #41
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Oswald acted alone.

To believe otherwise is to believe that dozens of people were approached and asked if they wished to kill the President, and all immediately said "yes" without exception.

To believe otherwise is also to believe that the CIA/Mafia/Cubans/USSR (circle where applicable) when planning to kill the President, thought the ideal person to carry out the deed was a mentally unstable, wife beating itinerant labourer, and the best place to carry out the deed was in broad daylight in front of hundreds of witnesses.
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Old 11-19-2014, 08:44 AM   #42
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Oswald acted alone.

To believe otherwise is to believe that dozens of people were approached and asked if they wished to kill the President, and all immediately said "yes" without exception.

To believe otherwise is also to believe that the CIA/Mafia/Cubans/USSR (circle where applicable) when planning to kill the President, thought the ideal person to carry out the deed was a mentally unstable, wife beating itinerant labourer, and the best place to carry out the deed was in broad daylight in front of hundreds of witnesses.
This is absolutley wrong . Oswald was CIA . He took orders and did what he was told. He went to Russia to spy but they were on to him. He then tried the same thing in Cuba but the Russians had warned them about him .
You do not need dozens of people involved in a conspiracy to kill the president. You need only a few people at the top and those underneath simply follow orders without question .
Example, shortly after the assasanition j Edgar Hoover issues memos to FBI offices sayin something to the effect that we have our man and don't let any other theories get started. Now this doesn't mean FBI agents were in on the killing it just means they follow prefers without question.
Much like the members of the warren commission. They were not assembled to find the truth but instead to prove that Oswald acted alone. This was what they were instructed to do . It does not mean they were in on it . Some of the mbers knew Oswald did not act alone which is why they did not want to serve on the commission .
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Old 11-19-2014, 08:47 AM   #43
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I think the future U.S, president that will get elected will be 41 years old, gets re-elected at 45 and departs at 49 and dies after 50.
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Old 11-19-2014, 06:27 PM   #44
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Sent the following message to Brad Meltzer, who did the Lost History program seeking JFK's missing brain:

Brad--

When I say, "if everyone was truthful," it seems to me the entire "it's at Arlington" theory rests with this John Metzler, the cemetery superintendent who oversaw every aspect of the 1967 reinterment.

1. Nothing can have gone in the casket or the vault because the vault was sealed in 1963 and never reopened.

2. Nothing can have been put in the new grave before it was dug. (Duh.)

3. Nothing can have been put in the new grave, or the old one either for that matter, during the ceremony, or after it while people were still around--too many witnesses.

4. The only way anything can have gone in the new grave is if it was dug well before the ceremony, Bobby Kennedy (assuming he had the brain), paid this Metzler something to keep quiet while he put something in the bottom of the grave, then covered it so no one would know anything was down there. One would have to ascertain when the new grave was dug and try to account for Bobby's whereabouts the whole time it was open, assuming he didn't assign this vital job to someone else. (Not Teddy...please!)

5. If you don't believe in conspiracy theories, Bobby Kennedy is practically the only person with any motive to take the brain. Now, you don't suppose he just told whoever was in on it (Teddy, possibly Steve Smith and a choice few others), "Let's just keep the damn thing around, wait till the next family member dies" (supposing that to be one of his parents) "and put it in with them," meaning it is at Arlington--with him!

6. If you don't believe in conspiracy theories--and I don't want to, but I'd like to see anyone explain the discrepancies just between the film and the autopsy photos, along with about a million other things--there are far too many suspects to mention and I don't want to "go there." No one can prove Bobby took it--and if anyone (surviving) knows about it (his widow Ethel, and only surviving sister Jean would be among the few if any), they don't want to besmirch his memory and will take it to their own graves.

7. It would be undesirable to see people go poking around the grave as they did with Lincoln's, to the extent that his son had to have him encased in cement, but perhaps at some future date ground-penetrating technology will be sophisticated enough to tell if anything extra is in JFK or RFK's graves.

I remember seeing the headline "President Kennedy's Brain is Missing" at least 40 years ago and finding it pretty wild. Personally, I enjoyed your presentation of the case. You showed remarkable restraint not to show (or even mention) the brain-stealing scene from Young Frankenstein.

(End of Message.)

In all seriousness, I would think the Kennedy family would WANT. THIS. SOLVED! Not only to know the answers for themselves, but if you had every crackpot on the street approaching you claiming to have "figured out the solution," wouldn't you want to be able to say, "It's been solved; case closed." It just adds to the conspiracy theories that they did not launch their own investigations into the deaths of JFK and RFK--makes it look as if "they didn't want to be next."

Last edited by Cori aka ChrisSCrush; 11-19-2014 at 09:12 PM.
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Old 11-19-2014, 09:31 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cori aka ChrisSCrush
Sent the following message to Brad Meltzer, who did the Lost History program seeking JFK's missing brain:

Brad--

When I say, "if everyone was truthful," it seems to me the entire "it's at Arlington" theory rests with this John Metzler, the cemetery superintendent who oversaw every aspect of the 1967 reinterment.

1. Nothing can have gone in the casket or the vault because the vault was sealed in 1963 and never reopened.

2. Nothing can have been put in the new grave before it was dug. (Duh.)

3. Nothing can have been put in the new grave, or the old one either for that matter, during the ceremony, or after it while people were still around--too many witnesses.

4. The only way anything can have gone in the new grave is if it was dug well before the ceremony, Bobby Kennedy (assuming he had the brain), paid this Metzler something to keep quiet while he put something in the bottom of the grave, then covered it so no one would know anything was down there. One would have to ascertain when the new grave was dug and try to account for Bobby's whereabouts the whole time it was open, assuming he didn't assign this vital job to someone else. (Not Teddy...please!)

5. If you don't believe in conspiracy theories, Bobby Kennedy is practically the only person with any motive to take the brain. Now, you don't suppose he just told whoever was in on it (Teddy, possibly Steve Smith and a choice few others), "Let's just keep the damn thing around, wait till the next family member dies" (supposing that to be one of his parents) "and put it in with them," meaning it is at Arlington--with him!

6. If you don't believe in conspiracy theories--and I don't want to, but I'd like to see anyone explain the discrepancies just between the film and the autopsy photos, along with about a million other things--there are far too many suspects to mention and I don't want to "go there." No one can prove Bobby took it--and if anyone (surviving) knows about it (his widow Ethel, and only surviving sister Jean would be among the few if any), they don't want to besmirch his memory and will take it to their own graves.

7. It would be undesirable to see people go poking around the grave as they did with Lincoln's, to the extent that his son had to have him encased in cement, but perhaps at some future date ground-penetrating technology will be sophisticated enough to tell if anything extra is in JFK or RFK's graves.

I remember seeing the headline "President Kennedy's Brain is Missing" at least 40 years ago and finding it pretty wild. Personally, I enjoyed your presentation of the case. You showed remarkable restraint not to show (or even mention) the brain-stealing scene from Young Frankenstein.

(End of Message.)

In all seriousness, I would think the Kennedy family would WANT. THIS. SOLVED! Not only to know the answers for themselves, but if you had every crackpot on the street approaching you claiming to have "figured out the solution," wouldn't you want to be able to say, "It's been solved; case closed." It just adds to the conspiracy theories that they did not launch their own investigations into the deaths of JFK and RFK--makes it look as if "they didn't want to be next."
The Kennedy family knows exactly what happened and why the two brothers were killed . They tried to change the course of this nation and they were a serious threat to what became the establishment. They know if there are forces powerful enough to kill the president of the United States and get away with it then there really is not much they could do. No Kennedy sought the presidency after rfk was killed. The Kennedy's are well aware of who is in power and know better then to go public with exactly what was behind the two assaanitions.
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