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Old 04-25-2018, 09:54 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drew790
The blame lies 100% with the killers, not the parents.
Yeah, let's not get into victim blaming, here.
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Old 04-25-2018, 10:41 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Padfoot
I read the book about the MI hunters. It was repulsive the way those brothers were able to run the community for years. Living in a neighborhood and being terrorized by someone like that is a secret fear of mine. But the victims werenít very sympathetic characters after I read the book (of course the didnít deserve their fate, regardless of their behaviors).
I finally read the book a few months ago out of curiosity because it was sort of a "local" case for me, about three hours north. I was 5 years old at the time. True, the hunters had too much to drink and really acted like idiots as a result...but I wouldn't wish their fate on anyone.

But back on topic, that case, this one and many others are kind of an eye opening problem in very rural areas, I fear. I'm almost afraid to know how many are out there - these country bumpkin maniacs who kill, rape, torture and do all these horrible things to people who they feel have crossed them. And then to have the confidence and arrogance to brag about doing these things to locals year after year, and then threaten them if they say anything about it to anyone, because the population is so small and their local police department probably consists of a couple officers.

Look at Beverly Noe and Ida Prewitt and all the things they got away with for so long. The examples could be endless. It's a scary thought.
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Old 04-27-2018, 08:32 AM   #93
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It's a weird sensation to go back and watch a segment involving a cold case once it's finally been solved or we finally have access to some information. With this, it's two particular quotes from investigators that are kind of hard to stomach now.

On the possibility of the murders being set up because of a drug deal gone bad, Agent Nutter said...

Quote:
ďIf you wanted to consider that it was drug related, nothing fits correctly. The very last thing that the people who committed the murder would want to do would be to abduct the children.Ē
Talk about a swing and a miss. That comment seemed surprising before but sounds downright stupid now. If these guys killed the parents and the girls bodies weren't inside the rubble, what made Nutter think that abduction would be the last possible thing these killers would do?

Also this quote from Captain Jim Herman on the possibility of the girls murdering the parents and running away...

Quote:
ďThere was a great deal of friction in the Freeman household. Danny and his daughter did not get along well at all and hadnít for some time. Thatís something we canít overlook.Ē
On one hand, this isn't as stupid as the other detective's comment because the case was just 15 months old at the time and I understand investigators have to look at all possibilities. But on the other hand, it's still cringe worthy now knowing the utter hell the girls went through during their final days. As people brought up here long ago, the runaway theory was always suspect at best since it would have involved them leaving behind their money and cars. And a teenager not getting along with her dad is not exactly a rare thing.
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Old 04-27-2018, 12:14 PM   #94
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Damn.

I thought they were possibly lost amongst the rubble. Absolutely disgusting to hear what happened.

RIP to both of them
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Old 04-27-2018, 05:03 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bell83
Yeah, let's not get into victim blaming, here.


Itís not victim blaming itís pointing out they were awful parents
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Old 04-27-2018, 06:12 PM   #96
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Never in my wildest dreams did I think we'd get arrests in the bible/Freeman and EAR cases in the same week.

Outstanding!
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Old 04-28-2018, 09:49 AM   #97
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So far neither the bodies nor the Polaroids have turned up. Apparently the many witnesses who described the Polaroids kept silent from fear.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...id=mailsignout
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Old 04-28-2018, 02:50 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JannTosh
Itís not victim blaming itís pointing out they were awful parents
Actually, it's the very definition of "victim blaming" to say that they are 1-100% responsible for the fate of the girls.

Lemme break it down, Barney-style:

"Victim" is a person who is killed or otherwise injured in a crime. A crime being committed by a person known as "a criminal."

"Blaming" occurs when someone implies that responsibility for something lies with one or more people.

Now, yes, you can make the argument that her parents are also criminals, due to whatever possible drug activity that may have been occurring. However that, in and of itself, does not mean they were knowingly placing the girls (or themselves, for that matter) in danger.

The facts of the matter are this:

Two people were murdered by 1-3 criminals.

Two teenage girls were abducted by 1-3 criminals.

Two teenage girls were raped and subjected to unknown horrors while held as prisoners by these 1-3 criminals.

Two teenage girls were murdered by 1-3 criminals.

In summation, the murder victims (i.e. the four people murdered by these s***birds) are, by even the most lax definition of the word, "victims." And
assigning guilt in the situation to any or all of them is, by definition, "victim blaming."
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Old 04-28-2018, 04:43 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bell83
Actually, it's the very definition of "victim blaming" to say that they are 1-100% responsible for the fate of the girls.

Lemme break it down, Barney-style:

"Victim" is a person who is killed or otherwise injured in a crime. A crime being committed by a person known as "a criminal."

"Blaming" occurs when someone implies that responsibility for something lies with one or more people.

Now, yes, you can make the argument that her parents are also criminals, due to whatever possible drug activity that may have been occurring. However that, in and of itself, does not mean they were knowingly placing the girls (or themselves, for that matter) in danger.

The facts of the matter are this:

Two people were murdered by 1-3 criminals.

Two teenage girls were abducted by 1-3 criminals.

Two teenage girls were raped and subjected to unknown horrors while held as prisoners by these 1-3 criminals.

Two teenage girls were murdered by 1-3 criminals.

In summation, the murder victims (i.e. the four people murdered by these s***birds) are, by even the most lax definition of the word, "victims." And
assigning guilt in the situation to any or all of them is, by definition, "victim blaming."
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Old 04-29-2018, 11:12 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JannTosh
Itís not victim blaming itís pointing out they were awful parents

They were flawed parents. They made some mistakes. Everyone is flawed and makes mistakes. Some just have far more dire outcomes than others.

The blame falls on the killers.
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Old 04-29-2018, 04:43 PM   #101
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I'm going to jump in and say this: Danny's lifestyle put his family and Lauria Bible in harm's way. No, they did not deserve to be murdered, yet think of it, if Danny didn't lead that lifestyle, this would have never happened. Shane was killed trying to appease his controlling father. Obviously this cannot be changed, but think about this for a minute. It's kind of hard to have sympathy for Danny, although I'm trying to. I feel more awful for the females involved. The Vinita police department bungled this case and don't be surprised if their involvement is the next thing that comes to light.
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Old 04-30-2018, 07:05 AM   #102
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After watching this segment again recently, I'm annoyed by how much the "police were involved" theory gets played up in the segment. They do mention the officers taking polygraphs and passing, but they still have that weird remark from Danny's brother about if he dies, the police did it. And they mention Shane's death too as if that would be some kind of precursor to a motive. Which makes no sense.
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Old 04-30-2018, 08:02 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JannTosh
Itís not victim blaming itís pointing out they were awful parents
Agreed. How is it victim blaming by pointing out what a scumbag Danny was? Had Danny been a law abiding citizen would Ashley and Lauria been abducted, raped and murdered by the men in Danny's house that night? I highly doubt it. I call into question now the entire circumstances surrounding Shanes death. Danny now needs to be considered as a factor in why Shane had the encounter with police that ended in his death.

Danny is no victim. He played a major role in the deaths of his wife, both children and the daughters friend. Stop with the "blaming the victims" nonsense.
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Old 04-30-2018, 08:23 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiffMunson
Agreed. How is it victim blaming by pointing out what a scumbag Danny was? Had Danny been a law abiding citizen would Ashley and Lauria been abducted, raped and murdered by the men in Danny's house that night? I highly doubt it. I call into question now the entire circumstances surrounding Shanes death. Danny now needs to be considered as a factor in why Shane had the encounter with police that ended in his death.

Danny is no victim. He played a major role in the deaths of his wife, both children and the daughters friend. Stop with the "blaming the victims" nonsense.
Don't give me this "law abiding citizen" s***. I guarantee you that virtually NOBODY on this board is a "law abiding citizen." Or can you tell me you've never gone even one mile an hour over the speed limit? Or had a drink of beer before you were of age? Or maybe been around someone who was smoking a joint, without turning them in. Or maybe even participated in smoking that joint?

There's a big difference between someone using drugs and someone being a dangerous criminal mastermind. Unless Danny blew his wife's face off with a shotgun, then used it on himself, he is a victim.
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Old 04-30-2018, 08:35 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bell83
Don't give me this "law abiding citizen" s***. I guarantee you that virtually NOBODY on this board is a "law abiding citizen." Or can you tell me you've never gone even one mile an hour over the speed limit? Or had a drink of beer before you were of age? Or maybe been around someone who was smoking a joint, without turning them in. Or maybe even participated in smoking that joint?

There's a big difference between someone using drugs and someone being a dangerous criminal mastermind. Unless Danny blew his wife's face off with a shotgun, then used it on himself, he is a victim.
You done being all hysterical? I guess you aren't that bright if you think comparing something like traffic violations in regards to drug dealing as being law abiding. Law abiding people don't get involved in drug dealing. Take a step back from whatever world you live and understand what law abiding is before you get all hysterical again. Maybe you can defend Danny's legacy at trial when his "estate" is sued by the other family for being complicit in her death. Not to mention his wife, daughter and son. Nice legacy Danny left. Yeah, the poor victim that he was.
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