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Old 07-05-2018, 02:58 AM   #31
James T
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Indeed, but on the other hand we cannot assume that every cop in an area is racist, corrupt etc just because there is a reputation of it there. We also cannot assume that just because a black person says something it is the truth because they are black.

Suicides are very common in prisons, here in the UK there are a huge number of people-usually male, white, black & Asian who have taken their own lives while in custody or young offenders institutions. I don't see why any of his family in a movement would have any bearing on his mental state, the thing about depression/suicidal thoughts is it often isn't visible-often people are reported as being happy & without a care in the world & next thing they are found at the bottom of Beachy Head or in their garage with the engine going & no air supply coming in. Often people will go & get their hair cut before killing themselves-it makes no sense but it happens.

Maybe he had undiagnosed health problems, maybe he felt shame for the bad choices he made that night, maybe he thought he was stuck in the jail for weeks or months cramped in with eleven other guys 23 hours a day & that nobody including his powerful stepdad could get him out.

I think we can safely say the wheelchair story was total bs designed to inflame the situation & gleefully retold by the NOI guy who seemed to have an agenda. I think the problem was this case was made political & racial by his family & their involvement in a right wing group.
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Old 07-05-2018, 06:34 AM   #32
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Suicides are very common in prisons, here in the UK there are a huge number of people-usually male, white, black & Asian who have taken their own lives while in custody or young offenders institutions.
Exactly. The segment says as much. Half of the suicides in the jails in Mississippi were white people, the other half black.

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I think the problem was this case was made political & racial by his family & their involvement in a right wing group.
Bingo.
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Old 07-05-2018, 09:48 AM   #33
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Indeed, but on the other hand we cannot assume that every cop in an area is racist, corrupt etc just because there is a reputation of it there. We also cannot assume that just because a black person says something it is the truth because they are black.

Suicides are very common in prisons, here in the UK there are a huge number of people-usually male, white, black & Asian who have taken their own lives while in custody or young offenders institutions. I don't see why any of his family in a movement would have any bearing on his mental state, the thing about depression/suicidal thoughts is it often isn't visible-often people are reported as being happy & without a care in the world & next thing they are found at the bottom of Beachy Head or in their garage with the engine going & no air supply coming in. Often people will go & get their hair cut before killing themselves-it makes no sense but it happens.

Maybe he had undiagnosed health problems, maybe he felt shame for the bad choices he made that night, maybe he thought he was stuck in the jail for weeks or months cramped in with eleven other guys 23 hours a day & that nobody including his powerful stepdad could get him out.

I think we can safely say the wheelchair story was total bs designed to inflame the situation & gleefully retold by the NOI guy who seemed to have an agenda. I think the problem was this case was made political & racial by his family & their involvement in a right wing group.

The reason I said that the NAACP would be a sign of relief by Andre is because he knew that they had a high chance of getting him out. Its like if you got busted with a speeding ticket but your dad was a cop. I agree with the racial element that his family put on this case, so for the sake of this argument let's remove all of the racial bigotry set up by his family, and let's assume that none of the cops and inmates weren't racist. Let's just assume Andre was white and let's look at this without any outside influence.

Now, I understand the logic of thinking he committed suicide. He's 18 and this was his first time in prison. He was set to go college the next day and he started panicking as he thought all of his dreams and future was vanishing so he takes his shoelace and hangs himself.

A couple of problems, and being realistic. Why did he call his parents as much as he did if he felt his future was that bleak? This was his first time in prison. Sure he was scared and panicking, but enough to commit suicide? He wasn't even given a jail sentence. I assume the people who commit suicide are people with lengthy sentences, or people who hurt children as they know they'll be hurt by the other prisoners.

He was in jail, not prison. He was in nothing more than a holding cell. And if Andre was so afraid of his parents for getting arrested then why did he keep calling? Sure, driving a stolen truck is a serious offence, but it wasn't like he committed murder.

Also take a shoestring and see how difficult it is to hang yourself with.

Honestly, I can see the logic for the people who think he committed suicide, but I disagree. I don't know who killed Andre or why, but they said that this particular prison and the sheriff was suspicious as other men were found dead the same way.
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Old 07-05-2018, 11:07 AM   #34
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If he was in a cell on his own I would think the murder theory was highly likely-but the sheer number of other people in there & not one of them has spoken out since makes it impossible to see how it was anything other than a suicide.

He was likely calling his parents because he was scared & wanted out, as you say this was not some hardened offender, but a young kid being locked up with career criminals-prison is a frightening prospect. Not usually-over here the suicides are mostly people in his age bracket, often in for trivial matters. An 18 year old with no life experience will not likely see a charge of driving unlicensed & even possession of a firearm being somewhat trivial seeing as he was a first time offender-in his case it was likely made worse by the whitey is out to get the black man rhetoric he would have been exposed to & likely thought he would get a hanging judge who would lock him up for 20 years or more.

A regular thin shoestring would be more troublesome, but the laces they put on those trainers are really thick & durable, the trainer company even did testing & found it could happen. What we find with these suicides is certainly that the institutions are badly run.

http://www.prisonreformtrust.org.uk/...ide/Deadinside

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8221656.html

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...ion-four-years
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Old 07-05-2018, 11:29 AM   #35
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If he was in a cell on his own I would think the murder theory was highly likely-but the sheer number of other people in there & not one of them has spoken out since makes it impossible to see how it was anything other than a suicide.

He was likely calling his parents because he was scared & wanted out, as you say this was not some hardened offender, but a young kid being locked up with career criminals-prison is a frightening prospect. Not usually-over here the suicides are mostly people in his age bracket, often in for trivial matters. An 18 year old with no life experience will not likely see a charge of driving unlicensed & even possession of a firearm being somewhat trivial seeing as he was a first time offender-in his case it was likely made worse by the whitey is out to get the black man rhetoric he would have been exposed to & likely thought he would get a hanging judge who would lock him up for 20 years or more.

A regular thin shoestring would be more troublesome, but the laces they put on those trainers are really thick & durable, the trainer company even did testing & found it could happen. What we find with these suicides is certainly that the institutions are badly run.

http://www.prisonreformtrust.org.uk/...ide/Deadinside

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8221656.html

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...ion-four-years
Him being in a cell by himself would make the murder theory less believable, not more. If he was by himself, then it's easier to say that he committed suicide.

He was in a cell with a number of other men, making the murder theory more believable. It's possible that he went to take a shower or use the bathroom and someone went in behind him and killed him. It's also possible that someone else didn't see the other person go in behind him.

You also can't take the fact that no one came forward as a theory as to why he committed suicide. This is prison, not a missionary. Not all prisoners are going to snitch, especially if they're afraid for their own hides. Maybe some other prisoners do know what happened but just kept their lips sealed, perhaps they really didn't see anything as the shower area was away from the cell area.

Even with trainer shoestrings it's still hard to hang yourself from the pipe he was found hanging from.
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