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Old 08-26-2018, 12:27 AM   #31
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LOL I liked it better when they just plain hated each other, but that's just me. If it had been up to me, I would've kept them as enemies the whole time, but I know a lot of people don't feel that way.
I'm not sure they ever REALLY did. The signs were there all along (almost before they were with Fran and Max.)
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Old 08-26-2018, 12:36 AM   #32
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I watched "The Wedding" again today, and I have to say I looove the scene where Max goes to find out what's wrong with Fran, and he tells her all the things he loves about her. I actually think I had to wipe a tear, LOL. It's one of the moments when I love Maxwell the most. Even with all his faults, he really is a great guy.
Four and half years of him not moving fast enough for her, and now she's almost backing out. Actually, there were a few times after the proposal she almost did.

I actually don't think Max taking four and a half years from first meeting Fran before proposing to her is itself so bad. A lot of media (books as well as TV) imply that there's something wrong with someone who takes relationships slowly. Whatever reason they give, their friends always seem to say, "Oh, you're just afraid - you know you're in love - just jump in." Indeed, drama, problems in the relationship - and, indeed, an inability to talk to each other about feelings, are often said to be evidence of the strength of the feelings - the feelings must be intense if they scare you enough to avoid them. To some extent they did imply that about Max. He often could tell other people, such as Niles, how he felt about Fran - but not her.

And if the character is a single parent, and they say they're being cautious because of how it might affect their kids, someone always says, "Oh, nonsense, you're just rationalizing your own fear," or "Stop being so serious and live life."

I don't think his taking back his first "I love you" is exactly a good thing, but let's face it - he could have gotten her into bed and THEN taken back his "I love you" or said he wasn't serious about her. He's more decent than to do that. There were a couple of other times she seemed ready to sleep with him and he backed off because, to him, that was getting serious. "Fran's Gotta Have It" is the big one. You felt like he was almost as scared of the sex itself as of commitment, but it seemed classy at the time. Then in season 5 they changed that a little...there were times he seemed willing to get more intimate and didn't happen because something else got in the way, but he would have. And then they implied in season 5 that he'd had a casual fling (or two) with other women. That seemed very...un-Max. Out of character.

I actually view Fran's obsessive need to get married NOW as a fault of hers, and it makes her far less lovable than she could have been. She's a quirky "fish out of water" character, but she's not comfortable with her differentness in an inspiring way...she's very insecure, and not just about Max, or marriage.

I do think it's a little strange for someone who has already been married, whose first marriage lasted until the partner tragically died, to describe themselves as "afraid of commitment." I've always heard a lot of widowers in that situation are eager to marry again. Phrases like, "I feel like I'm being disloyal to my first wife," "I'm afraid I could lose her the way I lost my first wife - if my first wife could die young, so could Fran" or "I don't want the children to think I didn't love their mother" or such, would sound better (even if they weren't actually logical.)

Last edited by JL82; 08-31-2018 at 03:28 PM.
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Old 08-26-2018, 02:20 PM   #33
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Yeah, "Not Without My Nanny" is great! How can you not melt when he says, "Fran, I love you"?! And the most important thing is, HE DIDN'T TAKE IT BACK!!! LOL!
Am I the only one who notices, however, that she does not say it back, EITHER time? I'm not sure exactly how much time is supposed to have passed before his saying it on the plane in "A Pup in Paris" and his taking it back, but it seems like enough time for her to have said it back. She gloats (in voiceover/narration) "I had finally gotten him to say it," which seems less in love with him than excited about getting a guy of his stature to fall for her and/or just snagging a man, period. I kind of wish he had pointed that out to her when he tried to explain why he was scared enough to take it back.

And she doesn't say it at the end of "Not Without My Nanny" or the beginning of the following episode...although I suppose melting into his arms for the kiss (in that outfit, no less) is probably satisfactory from his point of view.
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