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Old 03-04-2010, 05:28 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastermind
There have been many cases of abducted people whom seemed to have an opportunity to escape but don't seem to follow that logical pattern.
It's possible that Antoinette did try to do so and was severly punished in a failed attempt. That alone would make someone hesitant to try to escape.

"Stockholm syndrome" should also be considered.
Exactly. The Stockholm syndrome gets underrated at times. If it was 4-5 years after the fact she may have gotten attached to these people or like I said before a threat of never trying to escape again could do that.

But it leads me to the Tara Calico picture. If that picture isn't here then who is it? Ditto for the girl in the restaurant. Who was that if it wasn't her? Who acts weird like that and writes for help? I guess it could have been someone in an abused household who was lashing out, but something tells me it was her.
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Old 03-04-2010, 08:30 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by burbqueen
ok i've heard the call and the mom said it was her by the way she pronounced the last name. i do believe it was her, but the sighting was a bit odd. If it wasnt her then who was it? why would she write help??
Well, I guess it could have been her, but it also could have been:

1) Someone playing a joke
2) Another girl who unfortunately had been kidnapped
3) Maybe a girl whose parents were abusive

The thing that makes me hesitant is that this was in another state, five years later.
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Old 03-06-2010, 05:50 PM   #108
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In terms of the call, and I mentioned this before: Since the girl was not in the jurisdiction of the original kidnapping when she called (she was in Albuquerque, according to the caller, how was she able to reach the local police station where Antoinnette was originally abducted? When you dial 911, you get the local police operating center, so the caller would have gotten the Albuquerque operator. For her to get the operator she got, wouldn't she have to dial a seven digit number of that specific precinct?
Interesting point.

The caller may have said they had info on the Cayedito case. Considering that Alberquerque is a large city police department the may have a sophisticated phone system that allows call forwarding. The operators then may have patched her into the right jurisdiction and precinct. quite simply they put the call on hold and waited for the correct jurisdiction to come on the phone line.
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Old 03-06-2010, 08:00 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Mastermind
Interesting point.

The caller may have said they had info on the Cayedito case. Considering that Alberquerque is a large city police department the may have a sophisticated phone system that allows call forwarding. The operators then may have patched her into the right jurisdiction and precinct. quite simply they put the call on hold and waited for the correct jurisdiction to come on the phone line.
I thought about that, but the call we heard played on UM sounded like the girl was urgently making a plea for help, as if the call had just been picked up by the operator; your idea means that the girl got someone else at first, told them it was about Cayedito, and then waited for the next operator to pick up. From the way the girl sounded, I find that hard to believe.

This is one of those cases where it would be nice to ask the officers some more questions and try to get some details.
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Old 03-09-2010, 10:00 PM   #110
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I had some free time on my hands (well, actually I was procrastinating and read the thread again; I don't know UMers, if the two time poster above who seemed to be a local resident has any credibility, I tend to lean towards the possibility that the family is clearly hiding something, perhaps something sinister.

If we can give any credence to the posters remarks, apparently the locals tend to believe that this is what happened, and I would like to think they have more to base their beliefs on than we do.

The poster mentioned that one of the theories is that the mother was in on the idea of staging a kidnapping for money. If you start to think about that idea, the rest makes logical sense:

If the kidnapping was staged by the mother so that she would be kidnapped:

1) That's why the mother didn't answer the door at 3am, and Anntoinette did.
2) The call could have, in fact, been real! That might have been Anntoinette trying to get help.
3) Did you all notice that the sister couldn't remember anything UNTIL the LE began to re-question everybody after that call... that's when the mother might have told 10 year old sister to go with this scenario... in other words, "This is what happened, remember? Now tell them that." And lets face it, the story worked wonders. If you read the posts on this thread, 75% of them are basing all theories on the sister's claims.
4) The new, expensive car gotten two weeks after the kidnapping, which, according to the poster, was not a gift or charity, and the mother gave conflicting stories.
5) Add to that the absolute possibility that LE wanted to be politically correct and not create a backlash in the NA community by aggressively going after the mother.

I know well watch that program and think that the mother looks sad and is grieving, but the same could be said for Susan Smith, and many other mom's who actually made public appeals for their child's safe return. We all know that it can happen.

I'd be very interested to know if the mother took a polygraph test.

Is it possible to call the local LE office in Gallup NM and ask these questions? I've never done this before, but I know some of you had. What do you think? Should I shoot them an email for some updates???
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Old 03-09-2010, 10:41 PM   #111
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Well stranger things have happened, after all Andrea Yates looked like a mother grieving until we all realized that it was her who drowned all of her children (not a UM segment). It's worth a shot to email the sheriff and throw that idea out to him, I will however say that I think they may have exhausted that possibility already. But you never know.

I am one that has always been skeptical of her sister's story about answering the door at 3am. Where was the mother? Did she even wake up? And why remember that 5 years later? It could have been a dream when you think of it and the kid thinks its real after all this time.
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Old 03-10-2010, 12:01 PM   #112
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Is it possible to call the local LE office in Gallup NM and ask these questions? I've never done this before, but I know some of you had. What do you think? Should I shoot them an email for some updates???
Keep in mind that the FBI was involved directly in this investigation. Gallup NM may not own the file.Especially considering this was a kidnapping. The FBI had jurisdiction in the first 48 hours and they were involved with wiretapping. The information they give you may be limited. Or they may be unable to share information on a federal investigation.

If the FBI was involved you would have to contact the Alberquerque FBI Resident agency. If you do, try to avoid getting dumped to public relations blackhole. Try to see if you can get the email of the agent(s) that are stationed on the reservations around Gallup. You may be able to get the name of those agent(s) via the Gallup police. Maybe Gallup has an FBI liason stationed? ( i doubt it in this current terrorism climate).


If the mother is involved in this it is more likely she is guilty of murder than of staging a kidnapping.

If she was involved in a kidnapping her daughter to "sell" to someone, it makes no sense why she would be trying so hard to find her daughter. She stands a lot to lose if Antoinette is identified and found. She could go to jail or suffer retribution from the people she sold Antoinette to. Why is she going on UM, which could increase the chances of Antoinette being found? Why would she affirm that the voice on the call is indeed Antoinette? Wouldn;t it be in her best interest to denounce that the voice is Antoinette? Affirming it just puts the police on the right track and potentially leading to Antoinette being found.

Now, if Antoinette was killed by her mother, the above actions make a lot more sense. It makes a lot of sense for the mother to actively search for Antoinette. It helps bolster the kidnapping story. It has no negative reprecussions in that Antoinette cannot be found since she's dead. Going on UM and affirming the phone call provide perfect cover for hiding Antoinettes death.

Quote:
Add to that the absolute possibility that LE wanted to be politically correct and not create a backlash in the NA community by aggressively going after the mother.
This is an interesting jurisdictional snafu.

Technically the FBI are only interested in the kidnapping angle, while the Gallup Police would take lead on the murder case. But there is the reservation issue which technically makes the FBI involved on even a simple murder case.

I could see the Gallup police worrying about backlash. But would the FBI take the same concern. I don;t know the answer to that...depends how the federal relations were in tribal areas around the time.


Quote:
I tend to lean towards the possibility that the family is clearly hiding something, perhaps something sinister.
I think the Cayedito family may have been involved in some illegal activity (drugs, contraband, illegal immigration)

This could explain the car and why Antoinette's mother is hesitant in her explanation.

This also could explain why Antoinette was kidnapped. Antoinette possibly could have been kidnapped as a marker or as retribution.

Perhaps Uncle Joe owed someone money. It would explain why they used him as the name to lure Antoinette. Heck Uncle Joe may have actually been the one that took Antoinette.

Quote:
I am one that has always been skeptical of her sister's story about answering the door at 3am. Where was the mother? Did she even wake up? And why remember that 5 years later? It could have been a dream when you think of it and the kid thinks its real after all this time.
I think the sister's story is partially true. I think Antoinette was kidnapped, but I don't think it was as forceful an abduction as what was depicted. I have a feeling the abduction was more casual and that the Cayedito's knew the people that came for Antoinette.
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Old 03-11-2010, 03:08 PM   #113
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Hi,

For what it's worth, I don't think the family was involved at all but that is really neither here nor there. I cannot believe that the FBI was involved and somehow overlooked this rumored car or any other shady dealings. Of course, the first place they are going to look is the family and the very fact that they kept this an active investigation over several years makes me certain that they checked out and cleared the family.

Also, I have posted this earlier but several websites now claim that the FBI & police believe Anthonette is now dead. There is no reason for them to make such a claim unless they know more than what is known publicly. Also, at the end of the episode, Stack notes that the psychic Indian healer gave details which were surprisingly in line with what the FBI investigation had turned up but does not elaborate. I think that there is much more to this case than meets the eye but that we will never know unless somebody does somehow a freedom of information request and even then who knows what is classified and declassified after nearly 25 years.

What I really wanted to say when I hit reply is that a year or two ago I contacted the Gallup Police Department via their website and never received any type of reply, not even an acknowledgment. Good luck if any of you contact them. Perhaps a call is a better approach?
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Old 05-12-2010, 09:03 PM   #114
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Just watched this again today and I have to say, I think it was an inside job too...too many unexplained things from the family. Like where were they in the middle of the night and why was the kids answering the door?

Still, maybe there is a chance she is still alive.
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Old 05-13-2010, 09:01 AM   #115
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I think the family was involved in some sort of way. They may not have orchestrated it, but I believe they may know who took her and aren't saying who it is. Did anyone see the movie "Man on Fire" with Denzel Washington? In that movie, Denzel is a bodyguard to a little girl whose father sets up a kidnapping so he can collect on the insurance money when all hell breaks loose. I'm not saying that happened in Anthonette's case but I wouldn't be surprised. My only question would be that, if that were true, why would her mother be parading all over TV pleading for the return of her daughter? The kidnappers may get pissed any phone in an anonymous tip that the parents were in on it.

Also, I find it very odd that two young children are awake and alert at 3am and answering the door. When I was a kid, I was afraid of walking around the house that late at night, let alone answering a door. I wonder if the mother had said something to Anthonette earlier in the day, possibly letting her know that she was expecting someone and for her to answer the door if they identified themselves as "Uncle Joe". Basically what I'm getting at, is that this was planned and the mother's part was to make sure Anthonette answered the door.

Maybe the plan backfired and Anthonette was sold to someone else or killed. I don't know what happened, but I believe the family knows more than they are letting on.
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Old 05-13-2010, 02:12 PM   #116
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My only question would be that, if that were true, why would her mother be parading all over TV pleading for the return of her daughter? The kidnappers may get pissed any phone in an anonymous tip that the parents were in on it.
1.Well, it would be suspicious if she didn't try to do everything to get her daughter back.

2. If she knows the daughter is dead and knows that the perp will never be found (like the perp is a family member, dead or in jail), there really is no risk in bringing the case to UM.
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Old 05-15-2010, 03:01 PM   #117
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This case has always fascinated me as well and I think there must be many details that UM left out.

As other posters have mentioned, I, too, have always been puzzled why the girls would be up at 3AM – or that Anthonette would go to the door and ask who was there. Everyone is different, but if I heard the door knocking at 3AM at age 9, I would no way in hell go to answer it by myself (hell, even now I’d be terrified); I would run to my mom’s room, wake her up, and tell her that someone is at the door. Why didn’t the knock/voices wake up Penny? I guess she might be a heavy sleeper, but it seems odd. If their house looked anything like the reenactment house, it wasn't that big. Not that I suspect her as having anything to do with her daughter’s disappearance; she seemed very heartbroken and desperate to find Anthonette. The lip licking? Maybe she just has dry lips. LOL. But seriously, I never suspected her. Why would she go to that clairvoyant lady? Unless they were in cahoots or something, wouldn’t Penny be afraid that the clairvoyant would find her out? I guess that all depends on if you believe in psychics, but there’s always a chance. That’s why I don’t see Penny as being so willing to go to the clairvoyant if she were a guilty person herself.

The poster who stated that he/she was a friend to Anthonette and that there was a party the night she disappeared sheds a bit more light on things, though. Maybe the party ran late and that’s why the girls were still up. They assumed the door knocker was a partier/family member who had possibly forgotten something at their house and this eliminated some of their fear. Why didn’t UM mention the party, though? What reason would there be to leave that detail out? This may seem "out there", but Penny may have gotten hammered at the party and that explains her “dead to the world” slumber that night!

The sex slave/prostitution theory seems the most likely to me. I really can’t think of another motive….. unless someone had a vendetta against the Cayedito family that UM didn’t mention, and they kidnapped Anthonette for revenge.
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Old 05-15-2010, 03:44 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by Dionysus
This case has always fascinated me as well and I think there must be many details that UM left out.

As other posters have mentioned, I, too, have always been puzzled why the girls would be up at 3AM – or that Anthonette would go to the door and ask who was there. Everyone is different, but if I heard the door knocking at 3AM at age 9, I would no way in hell go to answer it by myself (hell, even now I’d be terrified); I would run to my mom’s room, wake her up, and tell her that someone is at the door. Why didn’t the knock/voices wake up Penny? I guess she might be a heavy sleeper, but it seems odd. If their house looked anything like the reenactment house, it wasn't that big. Not that I suspect her as having anything to do with her daughter’s disappearance; she seemed very heartbroken and desperate to find Anthonette. The lip licking? Maybe she just has dry lips. LOL. But seriously, I never suspected her. Why would she go to that clairvoyant lady? Unless they were in cahoots or something, wouldn’t Penny be afraid that the clairvoyant would find her out? I guess that all depends on if you believe in psychics, but there’s always a chance. That’s why I don’t see Penny as being so willing to go to the clairvoyant if she were a guilty person herself.

The poster who stated that he/she was a friend to Anthonette and that there was a party the night she disappeared sheds a bit more light on things, though. Maybe the party ran late and that’s why the girls were still up. They assumed the door knocker was a partier/family member who had possibly forgotten something at their house and this eliminated some of their fear. Why didn’t UM mention the party, though? What reason would there be to leave that detail out? This may seem "out there", but Penny may have gotten hammered at the party and that explains her “dead to the world” slumber that night!

The sex slave/prostitution theory seems the most likely to me. I really can’t think of another motive….. unless someone had a vendetta against the Cayedito family that UM didn’t mention, and they kidnapped Anthonette for revenge.
Good points! Yeah, the whole "answering the door at 3am" threw me off too; the poster who said there was a huge neighborhood party going on added more to the mystery. For all we know, the mom wasn't even in the home when the supposed knock on the door happened. Maybe she was still out at the "party."

What I am more perplexed by is the fact that the whole "knock on the door/Uncle Joe" thing was relayed to the LE 5 years after Anthonette vanished. I'm still not convinced that what the sister said is exactly what happened.

I'm leaning towards thinking the mother did not have something to do with the kidnapping, but I also think that the segment (through no fault of its own) probably left out some things that might not put the family in the best of light. I've often read that LE purposely presents a positive image of the family so that the public will be more likely to help and come forward. If we were to hear, for example, that mom was passed out drunk, or that mom frequently had male visitors over all the time, and the girls were used to opening the door for them at all hours of the night, the public might be a little less sympathetic.

I don't know.. This is a true mystery, and I wish we could read the police report to know everything there is to know about this one; something tells me we'd be surprised.
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Old 05-17-2010, 08:07 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dionysus
The poster who stated that he/she was a friend to Anthonette and that there was a party the night she disappeared sheds a bit more light on things, though. Maybe the party ran late and that’s why the girls were still up. They assumed the door knocker was a partier/family member who had possibly forgotten something at their house and this eliminated some of their fear. Why didn’t UM mention the party, though? What reason would there be to leave that detail out? This may seem "out there", but Penny may have gotten hammered at the party and that explains her “dead to the world” slumber that night!
I took it to mean that there was a neighborhood party somewhere else in the neighborhood, not at the Cayedito residence. If it was at the Cayedito's, maybe the perpetrator(s) were at the party and purposely tried to get Penny drunk enough or slipped her some type of pill so that she wouldn't answer the door late at night and they could grab Anthonette. However, I don't think the party was at their house because if so, UM definitely would have mentioned it or at least put out a plea to the party goers that night to see if they remembered a guest that drove a similar vehicle at the kidnappers or even remembered any type of suspicious activity.
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Old 08-23-2010, 11:08 AM   #120
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The neighborhood party that the friend posted about, could have been at another house in the same neighborhood and perhaps the perps knew the mom was at this party and knew the girls would be home alone. That may have also been why Anthonette answered the door to begin with. She may have thought it was her mom coming back home. It makes sense if you believe that the mother was not home to begin with, which is what I think.

It would make no sense for the girls to wake up at 3 am and answer the door if their mother was home. No way. I have a 6 year old and he would not answer the door, let alone hear the knocking at 3 am.

This is a very sad case. I do believe the 911 call to be Anthonette. The child's voice sounds authentic. I'm not too sure about the diner sighting however. We all know how unreliable witness's can be. It's hard to tell.

I think that there is a slim chance that Anthonette may still be alive. After all, look at Jaycee Dugard. You can't rule it out entirely.

As for the younger sister's account of what happened, why would she make that up is my question? Especially 5 years later. I think she is telling the truth.
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