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Old 08-21-2009, 09:06 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by mattc
Hey, thanks for the responses guys..... I don't know what you mean about me contradicting myself.. I did write that post late, and it wasn't worded very well. My point is, after watching the segment, I just wonder how the little girl was able to call her local town's emergency number from another part of the state. That's all.

So many questions, really.
I suppose she could have called 411 (directory assistance) and asked for that police department, but that doesn't seem likely, does it? If I were a kidnapped ten year old, I'd just grab the phone and call 911.
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Old 08-22-2009, 02:17 AM   #62
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One thing that makes me think the 911 call may have been a hoax is that it was very risky for the supposed abductor to speak into the phone. There have been numerous cases of victims calling 911 for help, but in the cases where the perp finds out, the perp always just hangs up the phone, not speak into it.

It's also intersting to note that the mother is 100% confident that the voice on the 911 call is Antoinette, but she doesn't say anything about the man. This would lead me to believe that if it's Antoinette, then she doesn't know who kidnapped her, and that may make Uncle Joe seem less likely of a suspect.

But then again, somebody made a good point earlier about Antoinette should be able to recognize Uncle Joe's voice at the front door. Of cousre, anyone could claim to be Uncle Joe, but Antoinette is probably going to know what his voice sounds like. So not only does this guy know Uncle Joe, but must be him or at least sound like him.

not sure what I think about this case now.
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Old 08-22-2009, 04:02 AM   #63
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nice to hear that my comments have sparked some thought. as much as people argue the sex slave angle. I just don't buy it. I prefer to think in terms of what is most likely and investigate that first.

I think the police department fudged this investigation. out of sympathies to the indian community...it seems theya re a small town that knows everybody...i think they failed to suspect the mom. by the time the fbi came in...that other guy on the UM segment, the evidence that might ahve been from mother's house is gone.

i also think that why athonette's mom is going through such great lengths to prove that her daughter is being abducted...even going to a navajo medicine healer thing. i suspect what UM didn't show is that the police now suspect her and she has been trying to prove otherwise. either way the case has gotten very old and without a body or a confession somewhere its impossible to really have this case solved.
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Old 08-22-2009, 02:04 PM   #64
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I think the police department fudged this investigation. out of sympathies to the indian community...it seems theya re a small town that knows everybody...i think they failed to suspect the mom. by the time the fbi came in...that other guy on the UM segment, the evidence that might ahve been from mother's house is gone.
I believe the tribal police were involved as well as the FBI agents who deal with investigatios on that reservation.

I don;t think the police fudged the investigation. Missing persons cases are the most difficult investigations to close. It's not surprising no answer has been found yet.
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Old 08-22-2009, 02:11 PM   #65
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I believe the tribal police were involved as well as the FBI agents who deal with investigatios on that reservation.

I don;t think the police fudged the investigation. Missing persons cases are the most difficult investigations to close. It's not surprising no answer has been found yet.
if i am correct, the tribal police would be first on scene with the fbi coming in later. the tribal police could feasibly be pursuing the missing persons angle instead of some sort of accidental death. the mother could very well be popular within the community and probably knew the police officers perseonally. to me, this could have hindered the critical early parts of the investigation.
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Old 08-22-2009, 02:53 PM   #66
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if i am correct, the tribal police would be first on scene with the fbi coming in later. t
Not necessarily. If the call was for a missing child, the FBI in any city would be called in to assist as soon as possible. In such a case the tribal police would defer to the experince of the FBI.

In some reservations the local FBI agent(s) is pretty much the de facto investigative unit of the place. They get called for any type of major investigation like murder or abduction.

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the tribal police could feasibly be pursuing the missing persons angle instead of some sort of accidental death. the mother could very well be popular within the community and probably knew the police officers perseonally. to me, this could have hindered the critical early parts of the investigation.
I could be wrong on this, but I do think the FBI has jurisdiction to directly investigate civilian homicide on a Native American Reservation. I think the agent could investigate that angle if necessary.
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Old 08-22-2009, 03:18 PM   #67
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in that case i wonder how soon the fbi was called in. from my understanding, local authorities have always had problems with feds and vice versa regarding this. in the critical early stges that might have been key. i know from the um segment there was a local enforcement detective interviewed.

also, fbi wouldn't directly investigate because this is not a homicide...didn't it start out as a missing person. the murder/abduction theories only happened way later.
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Old 08-22-2009, 05:07 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phanekim

I think the police department fudged this investigation. out of sympathies to the indian community...it seems theya re a small town that knows everybody...i think they failed to suspect the mom. by the time the fbi came in...that other guy on the UM segment, the evidence that might ahve been from mother's house is gone.

i also think that why athonette's mom is going through such great lengths to prove that her daughter is being abducted...even going to a navajo medicine healer thing. i suspect what UM didn't show is that the police now suspect her and she has been trying to prove otherwise. either way the case has gotten very old and without a body or a confession somewhere its impossible to really have this case solved.
Or they investigated and already ruled out the mom, which would seem to be the most likely, since the UM segement was filmed years after the abduction happened. And on other UM segments they have mentioned where other persons are suspected, but they had no proof. This was not so in the UM segment.

There's no concrete proof, they dont' even have what they had before the bodies showed up in the Scott Peterson case. Mom going through such great lengths to prove herself innocent sounds like, wow--an innocent person! Good grief I'd go through whatever I had to just to prove myself innocent. Cooperating with police, telling what she knows (mostly, she could be holding something back on a suspect). Consulting an Indian medicine woman wouldn't be unusual for someone like her. I look at her, and hear her story, and I fully believe her for the most part. But I think that's because I'm a woman and a mother, and I understand thinking from both ends. I don't see a killer looking at her, I see a genuinely distraught woman in pain. I've been around and around wtih this, thrown out ideas, pointed out things, and in the end, if someone is determined that someone must be guilty, then hey, nothing anyone says will change their minds. Of course that's also why some cases are shot---police focusing on only one possible person, and how innocent people can end up in jail. I've looked at the mom over and over and I can't find anything much out of the ordinary with her, so it's not a line of reasoning I will be continuing with.

Quote:
One thing that makes me think the 911 call may have been a hoax is that it was very risky for the supposed abductor to speak into the phone. There have been numerous cases of victims calling 911 for help, but in the cases where the perp finds out, the perp always just hangs up the phone, not speak into it.

It's also intersting to note that the mother is 100% confident that the voice on the 911 call is Antoinette, but she doesn't say anything about the man. This would lead me to believe that if it's Antoinette, then she doesn't know who kidnapped her, and that may make Uncle Joe seem less likely of a suspect.
The abductor didn't speak into the phone, he was heard in the back ground. Likely hard to tell a voice. It could have been an associate or a friend of Uncle Joe's as well...someone who somewhat knew the family.
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Old 08-22-2009, 05:36 PM   #69
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There's no concrete proof, they dont' even have what they had before the bodies showed up in the Scott Peterson case. Mom going through such great lengths to prove herself innocent sounds like, wow--an innocent person! Good grief I'd go through whatever I had to just to prove myself innocent. Cooperating with police, telling what she knows (mostly, she could be holding something back on a suspect). Consulting an Indian medicine woman wouldn't be unusual for someone like her. I look at her, and hear her story, and I fully believe her for the most part. But I think that's because I'm a woman and a mother, and I understand thinking from both ends. I don't see a killer looking at her, I see a genuinely distraught woman in pain. I've been around and around wtih this, thrown out ideas, pointed out things, and in the end, if someone is determined that someone must be guilty, then hey, nothing anyone says will change their minds. Of course that's also why some cases are shot---police focusing on only one possible person, and how innocent people can end up in jail. I've looked at the mom over and over and I can't find anything much out of the ordinary with her, so it's not a line of reasoning I will be continuing with.
Believe me. I do not like the thought of the mother at some sort of fault here. But you have to look at it objectively. Me and many others on this forum have posted several interesting things out that lead back to the mother. Also, I understand you are a mother. But it could have been very well an accidental death. But going on purely on your gut instinct isn't very good investigating. I mean how do you account for her sister's testimony. If this was a planned sex slave kidnapping why would they be so brazen to knock on front door knowing full well she would open it instead of the head of the household, the mother. if you were going to kidnap someone for those purposes wouldn't you just go into her room and kidnap her? This and other things we've all pointed out all lead back to the mother and the people in the house at the time.
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Old 08-22-2009, 09:32 PM   #70
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one thing that would be helpful to know is if it wasn't uncommon for Uncle Joe to pay a visit to the house in the middle of the night. If he had a tendency to do that, I would be more apt to believe Uncle Joe might have been responsible, but if he had never done that before, I would imagine it was someone not related to the family.
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Old 08-22-2009, 10:13 PM   #71
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Quote:
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one thing that would be helpful to know is if it wasn't uncommon for Uncle Joe to pay a visit to the house in the middle of the night. If he had a tendency to do that, I would be more apt to believe Uncle Joe might have been responsible, but if he had never done that before, I would imagine it was someone not related to the family.
another good point.
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Old 08-23-2009, 12:24 AM   #72
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In the segment, one of the detectives explains that in 1986, "Uncle Joe" was married to Penny's sister. Since he said "was" I'm inclined to believe that they had since divorced/split up. I'd be curious to know what happened there, and how Uncle Joe was thought of by family members after that. Perhaps I am really reaching with this one, but I think it is possible that someone in the family had a grudge against Uncle Joe and decided to coach the younger sister in telling this story. It could fit with why she suddenly came forward with this detailed story five years after Anthonette vanished.
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Old 08-23-2009, 12:37 AM   #73
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another thing that bugs me about that 911 call is that she just keeps saying her name over and over, and that she's in Albuquerque. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to fault Antoinette or whoever the girl may be, but it would seem like she would be rattling off as many details as possible. She may not know exactly where she is, as in street name, address, things like that, but she could describe her abductors, where she's being kept (is it a house, apartment or whatever), but she just keeps saying her name over and over. perhaps the call was a hoax.
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Old 08-23-2009, 03:56 PM   #74
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another thing that bugs me about that 911 call is that she just keeps saying her name over and over, and that she's in Albuquerque. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to fault Antoinette or whoever the girl may be, but it would seem like she would be rattling off as many details as possible. She may not know exactly where she is, as in street name, address, things like that, but she could describe her abductors, where she's being kept (is it a house, apartment or whatever), but she just keeps saying her name over and over. perhaps the call was a hoax.
I didn't view the phone call that way. She says her name, then when the operator said, "What?" she said her name again and where she was as though perhaps the operator (and police who would later investigate the call) would recognize the name (which of course they did). THEN before she could say anything else the man in the background came on. She only said her name twice, I believe, and had no chance to say anything else. I know we have to look at the evidence carefully, but that phone call just seems so genuine. The sound of fear and pain... it could have been acted out, but I feel it was not a hoax.
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Old 08-23-2009, 10:28 PM   #75
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I didn't view the phone call that way. She says her name, then when the operator said, "What?" she said her name again and where she was as though perhaps the operator (and police who would later investigate the call) would recognize the name (which of course they did). THEN before she could say anything else the man in the background came on. She only said her name twice, I believe, and had no chance to say anything else. I know we have to look at the evidence carefully, but that phone call just seems so genuine. The sound of fear and pain... it could have been acted out, but I feel it was not a hoax.
that's just it, though. The girl never states that she's in trouble, in addition to not mentioning any details about where she's at/the abductors. the only thing she states is her name in location. If i called 911 right now and just gave my name and location, they would be like "so what's the problem?" Again, I'm not faulting Antoinette or whoever it was, but the call just seems odd to me.
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