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Old 07-12-2005, 06:03 PM   #1
Agent 13
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Default How long is too long to wait on a trader?

Recently traders have privately expressed with me some of their frustration with slooooooooooow traders, so I am wondering what everyone else thinks about the matter.

Here's my situation: I've been waiting on a trader since November, 2004. I haven't posted a bad trader post for a couple of reasons (the guy has a violent temper, manipulative, etc.). I'm not sure if I ever will post an official bad trader post, but if someone posts a trader check, I probably will.

It is frustrating waiting and waiting on a trade to be complete. When do you wash your hands and label them a bad trader publically? I'm not speaking to those that jump off the handle at the drop of a hat but to those that think before they speak.

Last edited by Agent 13; 07-12-2005 at 06:44 PM.
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Old 07-12-2005, 06:44 PM   #2
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Old 07-12-2005, 06:44 PM   #3
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For me, it usually takes me months before I 'go off the deep end' with a trader. I'm a very mild tempered person, and will go out of my way to help my trading friends - but even that has limits.

I'll give you an example, I've been waiting on a trader (she's well known on this board and others) to complete her portion of the trade for about 3 months now. Initially, after the first month passed, I was a bit concerned, and the trader told me things were happening in her life, problems, etc. I understood, and figured I'd cut her some slack... well, that was over 2 months ago. Since then I've been getting "I'll have them out next week", "Oh, I'm running behind, I'll get them out priority on Monday", etc. Nothing in my hands as of yet. My stuff? Was in her hands in 3 days after we agreed on the trade. Do I now consider her a "Bad trader"? Wouldn't you?

I'm a firm believer that if you're delayed, or problems come up, communicate frequently - if you're committed to deliver something, you took the trade, then you take the responsibility to follow through with it and complete it. Making trades aren't madatory, no one holds a gun to your head. But if you can't do them, don't attempt them! If you know you're going to be too busy soon, don't start the trade now. Wait until you have the cycles. Common sense stuff.
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Old 07-12-2005, 06:59 PM   #4
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Default My Take

I try to give benefit of the doubt whenever possible especially if someone I know. That being said, I am not a speed demon any longer, I am a CPA and have a 1 year old, so time is not what it once was. I do let people know up front I am forever behind. I diligently try with 2 -4 weeks to complete a trade depending on how big it is.

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Old 07-12-2005, 07:12 PM   #5
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Oh No Tape trading politics

Three months does seem like too long of a time, but what bothers most about situations like this is lack of communication coupled with poor time management.

I had another situation when I first started trading with someone who was at that time considered to be reputable in the trading world. We had several trades over a period of time, trading approximately 50 slp videos, but I was only able to track 2 of his tapes in total. When I confronted him, he insisted that the problem was with my machines. (I kept trading with him hoping that the next set would work. Yes, I'm a glutton for punishment.)

I fell for it, figuring that since he was a trading veteran I was the dummy. And now, over a year later, it's finally come out that I was far from the only one who had problems with his stuff, and I wasn't the only trader afraid to speak up.

I often feel guilty because if I had spoken up sooner, would I have helped open the door for others to speak up, or would I have been black balled for speaking against a trading veteran?

I hate politics. Let's just do what's right and communicate when we have a problem. Above all, don't accept trades from others when you haven't made right on your current/past ones (a pet peeve of mine).

Off my soapbox...
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Old 07-12-2005, 09:49 PM   #6
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Anything beyond a month bugs me. After 2 months, I send an email once a month and ask when they will ship my dvds. Some well-known traders tend to have a lot of problems and I can deal with that, until I find out they are selling and burning dvds and getting those shipped out while my stuff has been put on hold. I've hit trading "burn-out" because of bad trades. New traders are sending multi-session dvds, corrupt dvds, and committing to too many trades at one time, which takes them forever to get my side shipped and then I get garbage. Recently, I've received a stack of dvds without sleeves sliding around in an envelope. I've also received recycled, dirty sleeves with other show titles written on them. One "well-known-respected-trader" sent dvds in sleeves with labels from software half ripped off, dirty, worn out, and/or with other show titles written on them.

I don't set up trades if I can't get their dvds mailed within one-two weeks and then I tell the trader up front that it will "be next week until I can send their dvds." It gives them the option of setting up the trade or waiting until I'm ready to burn their dvds. I never commit myself beyond 2 weeks and even that bugs me until I've mailed everything.

I'd say you have waited too long already. It's time we quit "protecting" these well-known traders as being "good traders" - because they aren't. I know "life" happens but some of these people are habitually slow and full of excuses. One trader kept me waiting for months while they were burning & selling a LOT of dvds on a daily basis. I don't mind waiting for those with a real life crisis to come through - but, when I hear they have put my trade on hold indefinitely because they are "swamped with sales" - it gets pretty annoying.

I'd say at the very least, if you don't want to "call them out" on the board, lets get them removed from the good trader list.
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Old 07-12-2005, 10:37 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nannyfan
Anything beyond a month bugs me. After 2 months, I send an email once a month and ask when they will ship my dvds. Some well-known traders tend to have a lot of problems and I can deal with that, until I find out they are selling and burning dvds and getting those shipped out while my stuff has been put on hold. I've hit trading "burn-out" because of bad trades. New traders are sending multi-session dvds, corrupt dvds, and committing to too many trades at one time, which takes them forever to get my side shipped and then I get garbage. Recently, I've received a stack of dvds without sleeves sliding around in an envelope. I've also received recycled, dirty sleeves with other show titles written on them. One "well-known-respected-trader" sent dvds in sleeves with labels from software half ripped off, dirty, worn out, and/or with other show titles written on them.

I don't set up trades if I can't get their dvds mailed within one-two weeks and then I tell the trader up front that it will "be next week until I can send their dvds." It gives them the option of setting up the trade or waiting until I'm ready to burn their dvds. I never commit myself beyond 2 weeks and even that bugs me until I've mailed everything.

I'd say you have waited too long already. It's time we quit "protecting" these well-known traders as being "good traders" - because they aren't. I know "life" happens but some of these people are habitually slow and full of excuses. One trader kept me waiting for months while they were burning & selling a LOT of dvds on a daily basis. I don't mind waiting for those with a real life crisis to come through - but, when I hear they have put my trade on hold indefinitely because they are "swamped with sales" - it gets pretty annoying.

I'd say at the very least, if you don't want to "call them out" on the board, lets get them removed from the good trader list.
This week I received a trade from a newbie here on the board this week and couldn't believe my eyes when I opened the package the discs were not protected at all.
There were no DVD sleeves or anything else of that matter on them to keep them from getting damaged. They had some bubble wrap around the whole stack of 15 discs and taped. Isn't it common courtiousy to use at least something to protect the discs? I mean you can put 2 or 3 discs in some DVD sleeves and they not get damaged. I turn the burned sides up against each other so that they do not get scrathed from the DVD envelope, with the label side outward.

It is worth the couple of extra cents for the sleeves then for the receiver to get damaged discs and have to replace them because they will not play + pay postage to send them again. If they will even replace them at all.


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Old 07-12-2005, 11:35 PM   #8
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Mel - I think I've traded with the same trader! I've recently received dvds packaged exactly as you did.

One of the discs I received wouldn't work and the trader replaced it promptly.

I suppose we should all work out all of the details of the trade up front - everything from clarifying brand of media (cheap garbage vs. acceptable media), packaging, and method of mailing (media, Priority, etc.) and then we won't be disappointed in the end. I seem to always forget to do this, though. I just take it for granted that people will give what they would like to receive. Unfortunately, this doesn't always seem to be the case

Hence, my temporary break from trading...I need a break!!!
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Old 07-13-2005, 01:12 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nannyfan
Mel - I think I've traded with the same trader! I've recently received dvds packaged exactly as you did.

One of the discs I received wouldn't work and the trader replaced it promptly.

I suppose we should all work out all of the details of the trade up front - everything from clarifying brand of media (cheap garbage vs. acceptable media), packaging, and method of mailing (media, Priority, etc.) and then we won't be disappointed in the end. I seem to always forget to do this, though. I just take it for granted that people will give what they would like to receive. Unfortunately, this doesn't always seem to be the case

Hence, my temporary break from trading...I need a break!!!
I have not checked the discs I got so I better do it quickly so that they will replace mine

Mel
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Old 07-13-2005, 07:11 AM   #10
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Placing discs back to back in a single envelope is not a good idea. Yes, the recorded surfaces do not rub against each other, but I've had far too many trades arrive where the ink used to label the disc has sealed the two discs together. Sleeves aren't so expensive that you can't put one to a sleeve, or buy sleeves that are designed to safely store a disc on either side.

I won't commit to a trade I can't perform within the month. A lot of my trades in the past two years have been for series I have on tape (Beta or VHS, some dating back to 1978), which take time to convert to disc. In recent months, I've pretty much had to refuse to do those types of trades any longer, and I'm working on a new list that's just my stuff available on disc. The fact that far too many traders - new and old - think that it's a simple matter to just slap a show on disc from tape and put it out there is discouraging. I don't have the equipment (or money to buy same) to do customized menus and such, but when I put something on disc, I want the best quality I can produce.

When evaluating the time it takes to do a trade, it's important to consider the level of effort to do the trade - is it duplicating discs? I agree - those shouldn't take ages to accomplish. Is it recording a show off the air? If so, have you agreed to incremental trades, or will you have to wait until the show has aired completely? Is it doing conversions? Do you find you need to replace an episode because your reception was bad that night, and you have to trade someone else to get it? Different types of production will take different times to finish.
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Old 07-13-2005, 07:27 AM   #11
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Default Response about sleeves

I am not sure how most store their dvds, but I do not use Paper Sleeeves. What I do use these for is to mail trades, put 2 dvds in the sleeve and it works great.

Who cares if they are recycled or have writing? they are not a good storage solution anyhow in my opinion, but they certainly work for the mail.

To me, common courtesy is to package the dvds properly (or tapes), make sure they work when sent and send them within the agreed upon time frame.


Trading is supposed to be fun, yet lately all I read is complaints.

SO, to be up front, if you approach me for a trade, I would love to trade with you, I try to trade with anyone who asks and I accept just about anything I don't have. HOWEVER, this is NOT my real job, I have regular trading partners who will take precedent over new trades (because they are ongoing), I make the discs as fast as I can, I do give prompt updates, BUT it may take me a month.


While on the subject, I think QUALITY is another topic. If you are getting VHS to dvd transfers of a show from the 1970s, etc. DO NOT expect modern dvd quality, it just can't happen. What can happen is decent copies that are enjoyable on most tv's. I know on HD Widescreens in the 50 plus inches some tapes will look distorted, if I knew how to fix it, I would as I do have one of those wonderful new tvs!

Example, Sanford Arms, I now have exactly 4 versions of all 4 episodes (16 different tries), I have 2 sets that are decent viewing, but have flaws, especially the pilot episode. Now, unfortunately, that is the way it is, I can't make them better, but they are probably better than what you will find elsewhere considering the best set came from a non internet trader and the next best was from a relatively inactive trader. SO, point is if you want some shows, you have to take what you get. Other shows, it's different. IE if I had a Get Smart set that I knew was available elsewhere in better quality, I would send you there, I wouldn't trade you an inferior set.

Off the box,

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Old 07-13-2005, 07:33 AM   #12
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Cool

i have noticed that my attitude toward trading has changed quite a bit in the last 6 months or so.the thought of churning out tape after tape for someone really gets too me now,i seem to have lost the enjoyment that comes from it.
the first set of tapes i ever packaged up i sent to jen, from memory i think i sent them quite promtly and spent some effort on really doing them right.the next package i sent her took a lot longer and i didn't even bother to label the tapes properly i was just glad to see them off .
my health had been pretty bad at that time and everything seemed like a real chore ,now that i am almost 100% i still haven't got the enthusiasm for it that i used to have .
when i decided to offer up things on my trade list i was only ever going to do one trade at a time but even that seems too much!!
i still haven't lost the enthusiasm to help people out though that is why i can't seem to give it up.because i know how hard it is to find someone with something your after and pull the deal off.
because i am taking longer with trades i have even more patience with others than i used to have.i received 55 episodes of rhoda from nanny fine, from the start i said i was happy to wait as long as six months for them they came in 4 months and it didn't really worry me at all.she stated that she was a slow trader from the start so i knew what i was getting into.
if anybody out there knows of a way that i can give copies of my shows to people with out actually having to make the copies myself and the method is still safe and secure i would be grateful to hear it
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Old 07-13-2005, 08:01 AM   #13
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Default Good points/ counterpoint

[QUOTE=debwalsh]Placing discs back to back in a single envelope is not a good idea. Yes, the recorded surfaces do not rub against each other, but I've had far too many trades arrive where the ink used to label the disc has sealed the two discs together. Sleeves aren't so expensive that you can't put one to a sleeve, or buy sleeves that are designed to safely store a disc on either side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by debwalsh
When evaluating the time it takes to do a trade, it's important to consider the level of effort to do the trade - is it duplicating discs? I agree - those shouldn't take ages to accomplish. Is it recording a show off the air? If so, have you agreed to incremental trades, or will you have to wait until the show has aired completely? Is it doing conversions? Do you find you need to replace an episode because your reception was bad that night, and you have to trade someone else to get it? Different types of production will take different times to finish.


Counterpoint: I have never had a problem with 2 discs stored in the same envelope no matter which way they are facing, it is fairly tight and if put in a package correctly, there should be NO movement.

POINT: This is a great point and folks should realize just how long it takes to do vhs to dvd conversion trades. It is not fast at all. Great point again.

Tom D.
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Old 07-13-2005, 08:28 AM   #14
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Tom,

I think for most of the trades we're talking about, they're straight duplications (dvd/dvd, tape/tape). I think if its known its a tape>dvd conversion, the receiver is going to expect some longer times. Its the basic duplication trade, and in my case dvd duplication trades, that shouldn't take almost 3 months.
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Old 07-13-2005, 09:04 AM   #15
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If I'm contacted for a trade about something I really reallywant-Example:Checking In from 1981, then i don;t want to wait at all. I want the trade to happen right away especially if it's a show i been looking for years.
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