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Old 09-11-2017, 11:00 PM   #91
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Another possibly unpopular opinion I have regards the Dick Hansen murder. I never put much stock in the license plate theory. I've always believed that "Jean" knew more about the crime than she told LE. JMO of course.
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Old 09-11-2017, 11:18 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueGalexy
Another possibly unpopular opinion I have regards the Dick Hansen murder. I never put much stock in the license plate theory. I've always believed that "Jean" knew more about the crime than she told LE. JMO of course.
I've never been convinced by the license plate theory. If Jean's story is accurate, the killer may have been pointing at Jean herself, and that's why Dick flipped out. He may have said something sexual, for example.

That's an interesting theory that Jean could know more. I think that's more likely than the license plate theory.
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Old 09-11-2017, 11:30 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by TheCars1986
-Family members of people who's deaths were ruled suicides but believe they were murdered should not be held in a higher regard than the official version given by coroners, police departments, etc.
^^^
THIS

That is what I was getting at, but I think the point got lost when folks became fixated on the specific cases I mentioned.

Seriously, why do we give the leg up to family/defendant-based theories and assume the police were wrong?
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Old 09-12-2017, 05:31 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justins5256
^^^
THIS

That is what I was getting at, but I think the point got lost when folks became fixated on the specific cases I mentioned.

Seriously, why do we give the leg up to family/defendant-based theories and assume the police were wrong?
I agree with both of you, however for me, it depends on the case. Like Amy Lynn Bradley's parents. They tried so hard to get her case looked at as an sexual slavery angle to the point where they lost valuable time and money. No one has ever seem to have doubted her parents and just went with their theory without questioning it.

But to answer the initial question, it's sympathy. When you look at Amy Lynn Bradley's parents investigating, and appearing on every show then people are going to get sympathetic and side with them, and blame the police for not caring/trying hard. People want the family to get justice, so they start "rooting" for them so to speak, especially if the police aren't seeming helpful.
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Old 09-12-2017, 07:30 AM   #95
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James Harrod was not the trigger man in the Tovrea hit. No chance in hell he was capable of traversing the terrain to make it into the house. Police fabricated evidence against him. Wether that evidence was fabricated to get him to flip to catch a bigger fish or to protect the actual shooter, I do not know yet. I would have to move to Arizona and immerse myself in the case full time to accomplish that.
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Old 09-12-2017, 07:34 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freakbook
I agree with both of you, however for me, it depends on the case. Like Amy Lynn Bradley's parents. They tried so hard to get her case looked at as an sexual slavery angle to the point where they lost valuable time and money. No one has ever seem to have doubted her parents and just went with their theory without questioning it.

But to answer the initial question, it's sympathy. When you look at Amy Lynn Bradley's parents investigating, and appearing on every show then people are going to get sympathetic and side with them, and blame the police for not caring/trying hard. People want the family to get justice, so they start "rooting" for them so to speak, especially if the police aren't seeming helpful.
That's my main issue though. Family members will go on TV and claim the police were rude to them, lied about specifics, didn't investigate so and so properly, etc. and people automatically believe it. It's weird. I used to side with the families for reasons you listed until I saw/read about the Morgan Ingram case. Her mother made several claims about a stalker, and actually had surveillance footage that showed someone standing near/in their driveway before Morgan was found dead shortly after. Her parents even went on Dr. Phil and accused a friend of Morgan's of murder, and that her parents helped with a cover up. It was all ridiculous, and it was pointed out on the Dr. Phil show that near the driveway of the house where Morgan lived was a pathway in some woods that people would use to walk through the neighborhood. All in all, the mother's claims all lacked any credibility. I don't get why we are so quick to question the official version based off of some very biased anecdotes and stories from family members. That's not to say that the official version is always right. It's just that more credence shouldn't be given to the version pushed by the relatives of a deceased person who died of a suspicious death.
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:09 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCars1986
That's my main issue though. Family members will go on TV and claim the police were rude to them, lied about specifics, didn't investigate so and so properly, etc. and people automatically believe it. It's weird. I used to side with the families for reasons you listed until I saw/read about the Morgan Ingram case. Her mother made several claims about a stalker, and actually had surveillance footage that showed someone standing near/in their driveway before Morgan was found dead shortly after. Her parents even went on Dr. Phil and accused a friend of Morgan's of murder, and that her parents helped with a cover up. It was all ridiculous, and it was pointed out on the Dr. Phil show that near the driveway of the house where Morgan lived was a pathway in some woods that people would use to walk through the neighborhood. All in all, the mother's claims all lacked any credibility. I don't get why we are so quick to question the official version based off of some very biased anecdotes and stories from family members. That's not to say that the official version is always right. It's just that more credence shouldn't be given to the version pushed by the relatives of a deceased person who died of a suspicious death.
You know, when I used to watch the show when I was younger, and before the Internet was around, I pretty much ate up whatever theory the show was proposing at the time. It wasn't until I matured and I also started digging deeper into some of the cases (sparked by curiosity) and reading about them in books, newspaper articles, appellate briefs, and so on that I realized how much the show heavily skewed things toward whatever specific conclusion they wanted the viewer to arrive at.

I always considered myself a casual viewer/fan of UM and got in to it more as time went on. However, I can't help but feel that a lot of folks probably just don't think about the segments they watched when the show is over and the TV is off. Couple this with poor and/or underdeveloped critical reasoning skills, personal biases, and lack of outside research and it is understandable why some folks arrive at the conclusions they do.

To be clear, I don't mean any of the above as a knock at all. Just being realistic. I highly doubt the casual viewer goes to the lengths some of us do on here to find out about these cases and spends lots of time thinking about them. Not that this is right or wrong or good or bad, just the way it is.
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:20 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justins5256
You know, when I used to watch the show when I was younger, and before the Internet was around, I pretty much ate up whatever theory the show was proposing at the time. It wasn't until I matured and I also started digging deeper into some of the cases (sparked by curiosity) and reading about them in books, newspaper articles, appellate briefs, and so on that I realized how much the show heavily skewed things toward whatever specific conclusion they wanted the viewer to arrive at.

I always considered myself a casual viewer/fan of UM and got in to it more as time went on. However, I can't help but feel that a lot of folks probably just don't think about the segments they watched when the show is over and the TV is off. Couple this with poor and/or underdeveloped critical reasoning skills, personal biases, and lack of outside research and it is understandable why some folks arrive at the conclusions they do.

To be clear, I don't mean any of the above as a knock at all. Just being realistic. I highly doubt the casual viewer goes to the lengths some of us do on here to find out about these cases and spends lots of time thinking about them. Not that this is right or wrong or good or bad, just the way it is.
Agreed.

Another example for me would be the Keith Warren case. As far as I can tell, everyone on here, including me, believed he was either murdered or died accidentally and some of his friends freaked out and made it look like a suicide. Suicide was never an option. Until I saw more information related to the case I realized that suicide was a possibility, and the UM segment presented a decent case for murder by some shady people that could've been involved with drugs (Mark Finley was one of them). Then years later I saw a local news station report on the case that was filmed prior to the UM segment where it was alleged that Keith was lynched and it was a racially motivated hate crime. The UM segment makes no mention of this, and specifically says that a car full of black teens/men were looking for him shortly before he died. This was known back when Keith was found dead. Why the sudden change of a motive in the span of 3-4 years?
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Old 09-12-2017, 10:38 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justins5256
You know, when I used to watch the show when I was younger, and before the Internet was around, I pretty much ate up whatever theory the show was proposing at the time. It wasn't until I matured and I also started digging deeper into some of the cases (sparked by curiosity) and reading about them in books, newspaper articles, appellate briefs, and so on that I realized how much the show heavily skewed things toward whatever specific conclusion they wanted the viewer to arrive at.

I always considered myself a casual viewer/fan of UM and got in to it more as time went on. However, I can't help but feel that a lot of folks probably just don't think about the segments they watched when the show is over and the TV is off. Couple this with poor and/or underdeveloped critical reasoning skills, personal biases, and lack of outside research and it is understandable why some folks arrive at the conclusions they do.

To be clear, I don't mean any of the above as a knock at all. Just being realistic. I highly doubt the casual viewer goes to the lengths some of us do on here to find out about these cases and spends lots of time thinking about them. Not that this is right or wrong or good or bad, just the way it is.
I completely get what you are saying.

UM debuted when I was 11 (1987) and I began watching shortly after. It was a constant in my life in my teens and I watched reruns on Lifetime, naturally.

The person I was at 12 or 13 watching this and the person I am at 41 is obviously night and day. My interest in cases that wouldn't generally be classified as "true crime" plummeted in the ensuing years. I can enjoy the non "true crime" elements of UM as an entertaining diversion from the real world but that's ALL it is.

Also, I think there is something to be said for where we are as a society in 2017 when juxtaposed with 1987. The access to knowledge, science and truth has only gone up since then and, luckily, the interest in those areas has also flourished. The world of 30 years ago was still a world of 3 (or 4) major networks and some cable. While it could be argued that technology and access to knowledge has made us dumber, because many people choose to let their minds atrophy; the converse could just as easily be argued.

Sorry for rambling.

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Old 09-12-2017, 01:16 PM   #100
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I don't believe that Tammy Lynn Leppert was anywhere near as happy with her career or home life as her mother made it out to be. Nor were some of Tammy's modeling photos appropriate for a teenage girl. The photo of her in the black and white zebra print bathing suit is a perfect example.
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Old 09-12-2017, 02:05 PM   #101
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I've always believed Larry Race, Mark Nichols and Tim McClure were innocent. In Nichols' case, his wife clearly had mental issues and wanted out of her life. Maybe it's because I am close to my own mother that I sympathize with McClure.
I also happen to think Jeffrey MacDonald is innocent. The segment outright states that investigators took his comments on the Dick Cavett Show personally and thereafter pursued him with a vengeance. At the very least, there was always enough room for doubt.
I also think Ed Baker actually died in that car explosion outside Houston.
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Old 09-12-2017, 02:53 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schmave
I've always believed Larry Race, Mark Nichols and Tim McClure were innocent. In Nichols' case, his wife clearly had mental issues and wanted out of her life. Maybe it's because I am close to my own mother that I sympathize with McClure.
I also happen to think Jeffrey MacDonald is innocent. The segment outright states that investigators took his comments on the Dick Cavett Show personally and thereafter pursued him with a vengeance. At the very least, there was always enough room for doubt.
I also think Ed Baker actually died in that car explosion outside Houston.



The forensic evidence proves that MacDonald did it though
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:13 PM   #103
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Okay my fellow UM fans, don't hate me, but here goes... I don't believe that Ted Binion was murdered. I think it's more likely that his chronic and long term drug abuse finally caught up with him. JMO of course.

Now that being said, I also feel that Murphy and Tabish took advantage of Binion's untimely death in shady and despicable ways, and was glad to see them both held accountable for it.
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Old 09-12-2017, 11:17 PM   #104
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That Tony Ballesteros was guilty.
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Old 09-13-2017, 01:16 AM   #105
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Quote:
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That Tony Ballesteros was guilty.
Now that's an interesting opinion I've never heard thrown out there before. Care to elaborate?
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