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Old 01-05-2010, 06:47 PM   #46
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Default Tragic Accident...

Yeah but to me the whole case is strange..I mean they were most likely drunk driving in icy weather ( as according to the grandparents who stated they had had too much to drink to take their baby home that night) and flipped the car over. It really is weird that a killer would be waiting in freezing temps outside in the middle of essestially nowhere to kill them. Plus, what's the motive? Rudy's cousin whom they left in the car never heard any screams or noises after they both exited the car. When recuse personal came to the scene, no blood was found in the area or signs of a struggle. There's just no motive. Random killings usually have a motive such as robbery, rape, ect. Yet, nothing was taken and to rape someone outside in freezing weather ( below 0) doesn't make any sense. Again, the fact that some killer was walking around in that weather in the middle of nowhere, where they flipped the car over is a little odd to me to say the least. Remember, when that happened forensic technology and things like that were in their infancy. I'v been reading some things online about it and I believe that in all probability this is what happened....All 3 were intoxicated from a long night of partying. They chose to drive. The grandparents noticed they were intoxicated and advised it would be better to pick up their daughter in the morning. I believe it was a combination of icy weather and being intoxicated that the car flipped into the ditch. Arnold freed himself from the car and went over to help Rudy get out. Why did they not help their cousin? Well, there's a few explainations...1) If they're drunk they aren't thinking in a rational state of mind. 2) Panic, they knew the cops would be to the crash scene soon and they had been drunk driving. I believe they fled the crash scene and again, as they were intoxicated weren't thinking clearly to judge where the ice was too thin and they fell threw. Anyone who's fallen into freezing water in below 0 temps knows that your body goes into shock right within seconds. Plus all the heavy winter clothes they had on would weigh them down and make it very hard to pull themselves out. Even if they pulled themselves out, hypothermia with those temps would set it immediately. Remember they were in the middle of nowhere..this was not a populated area. The medical examiner stated they died from exposure. If you research this case further..no signs of stabbing, strangling, ect was found on the bodies. Nothing. Even with just bones left many medical examiners have been able to detemain strangulation (e.i the hyoid down is broken) or stab wounds that struck the bones. However, in this case the bodies were decently preserved because of the cold. Nothing was found. In recent years, more technology and research (The Body Farm, which specializes in decomposition of bodies for investigators (thats where Caley Anthony's body was sent) has found that even 2 bodies in the same place might not decay the same depending on many factors. The hair found on the road might have blown there after the spring thaw. Their friends who stated they saw arnold after the crash and passed polygraph tests in all probability were just mistaken about the date. So, in that case they weren't lying and would've passed the lie detector. Consider Arnold was found wearing the same clothes he had on the night of the crash, it seems that his friends were just mistaken of the date. Why would he have been walking around in the same clothes for that many days? and the friends NEVER saw Ruby. So, does that mean that Arnold was spared by the killer but Ruby wasn't? And that Arnold never said anything and just went to a party with his friends? And somehow the killer came back for Arnold later? Highly doubtful. That has happened in many investigations were witnesses were mistaken about the date. Also, the police department was very small and did not have the resources that larger agencies have or the technology we have today. So they might have combed the area in the winter but in area's like that until the spring thaw many things can go unnoticed especially with as little man power as that had. Honestly, this just seems like a horrible tragic accident. Questions can always remain like "Why didn't they just stay in the car"? "Why didn't they help Ruby's cousin?" ect But like I said being drunk and being in a panic state of mind can alter rational thinking.
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Old 01-05-2010, 08:28 PM   #47
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Umm, you don't have to post in every thread....

Let's stick to the original post here.

Again as said previously..

How do you explain the unidentified car and house keys that were found on Arnold?
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Old 10-04-2010, 11:33 PM   #48
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It looks like "sioux indian reservation car accident" is on the lifetime schedule for tomorrow. Anyone know if this the Ruby and Arnold case, just listed by lifetime under a different segment name that I'm unfamiliar with?

If anything good has come out of what happened to this couple and their cousin, I guess it would be that the grandparents convinced them to leave the baby at home with them instead of taking the child out on their drive that night. That decision could have very well prevented another death.
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Old 10-06-2010, 08:42 AM   #49
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OK i alway thought Arnold cousin was kinda cute but neither here nor there! Tracy looks innocent but for a moment think about it tracy is driving she goes head long into the ditch killing the other two or hurting them very bad, Now were in the middle of nowhere so a car or two max go by late at night and miss the car all the while tracy has called mom dad and some other folks to help her clean up Chapaquita style but it works and now the bodies are gone so too are Arnold and Ruby. Both now missing and most people think they are drunks anyway so its easy for the community to believe they were driving and crashed and left Tracy.Tracy gets back in the car turns the lights on and is found in no time. And the bodies are stored till spring when it would be safe to put them back. I believe the Indians are treated worse then most ethnic groups in the USA and as such have little respect for the law the same law that for the last 400 yrs told them they are heathens and inferior , now this is a double edged sword drinking and drug use are high on Indian Reservation .As well as drinking and drugs, clanishness is a problem on Reservations its like the Indian version of "Stop The Snitching" this allows problems to be dealt with by indians alone. If you want to read a good book about the "Res" read Lone Ranger and Tonto Fistfight in Heaven by Sherman Alexie it is great!
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Old 10-06-2010, 10:06 AM   #50
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Why is this case even considered a "mystery?"

1) Everybody involved was intoxicated.
2) In below freezing weather.
3) They were stunned after a car accident.
4) They were found in a nearby body of water after a thaw.
5) The police performed a less than thorough search in frigid weather.

The details about the unknown keys,the "changed clothing" and people "seeing" Arnold at a later time are all distractions.
The keys could have come from anywhere and Arnold may have even found them much earlier than the accident.

The clothing being changed could have either happened while they were out...or maybe it never happened,and he was just wearing something that nobody really noticed.

And people stating that they have "seen" someone is usually not a very reliable source of information.
People can conflate the details of of one more more situations or they even lie to bring attention to themselves.
W/O video or photographic evidence, eyewitness statements,IMHO,are usually worthless.

Bottom line:This was likely the case of people who got drunk,got into accident and died from exposure or drowning or both.
They then weren't found until much later after a less than thorough police search when the body of water that they were located in, thawed.

Again,not much of a "mystery" here.

Last edited by cocytus; 12-31-2010 at 02:32 PM.
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Old 10-06-2010, 03:10 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n8riley
If you want to read a good book about the "Res" read Lone Ranger and Tonto Fistfight in Heaven by Sherman Alexie it is great!
That's actually a good point. Even though it is fictional, I'd recommend it to anyone who's gone on a moral tirade about some of the elements involved in this case.
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Old 10-07-2010, 11:22 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cocytus
Why is this case even considered a "mystery?"

1) Everybody involved was intoxicated.
2) In below freezing weather.
3) They were stunned after a car accident.
4) They were found in a nearby body of water after a thaw.
5) The police performed a less than thorough search in frigid weather.

The details about the unknown keys,the "changed clothing" and people "seeing" Arnold at a later time are all distractions.
The keys could have come from anywhere and Arnold may have even found them much earlier than the accident.

The clothing being changed could have either happened while they were out...or maybe it never happened,and he was just wearing something that nobody really noticed.

And people stating that they have "seen" someone is usually not a very reliable source of information.
People can conflate the details of of one more more situations or they even lie to bring attention to themselves.
W/O video or photographic evidence, eyewitness statements,IMHO,are usually worthless.

Bottom line:This was likely the case of people who got drunk,got into accident and died from exposure or drowning or both.
They then where found until much later after a less than thorough police search when they body of water that they were located in, thawed.

Again,not much of a "mystery" here.
My thoughts exactly.
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Old 10-07-2010, 12:44 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SageSlowdive
My thoughts exactly.
Mine too.
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Old 12-31-2010, 02:16 PM   #54
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Yeah I agree
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Old 01-01-2011, 01:14 PM   #55
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I don't think its that simple here. If the police officer lied then it could have happened this way. He claims there was a complete search of this area and there is no way they could have been there.

Here's my sticking point, if it's so cold and frozen that the ice will support the weight of a vehilce that weighs over a ton then how does the ice not support the weight of the two people?? Also how do you explain the hair from Ruby being found months later on the road?
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Old 01-01-2011, 02:18 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kane7474
Also how do you explain the hair from Ruby being found months later on the road?

If she'd been in the vicinity all that time, animal foraging or just plain decomposition is an easy explanation for that. I don't remember if that was touched on in the segment or not; it's been a long while since I've seen it.
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Old 01-01-2011, 04:46 PM   #57
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I think in other previous posts I have leaned to the other side of this, or at least been on the fence, but yeah, I have to admit that the more I think about this one, I agree it was likely just an accident. I think some details are perhaps not being divulged by the surviving member of the accident, and this in turn might be making the case seem more enigmatic, but either way it seems that their bodies were just likely missed during the search. As far as the ice being able to support a car and not two people, only thing I can say is that they were found some distance from the car. Maybe that area just was not as strong and they broke through.
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Old 01-01-2011, 05:41 PM   #58
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does anyone know what happened to Arnold and Rubys daughter Erica? She would be 18 or so now.
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Old 01-01-2011, 05:44 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kane7474
I don't think its that simple here. If the police officer lied then it could have happened this way. He claims there was a complete search of this area and there is no way they could have been there.

Here's my sticking point, if it's so cold and frozen that the ice will support the weight of a vehilce that weighs over a ton then how does the ice not support the weight of the two people?? Also how do you explain the hair from Ruby being found months later on the road?

Let's see:

1) The police officer/deputy sheriff probably didn't lie. They probably did the best search that they could in subzero weather. W/O ground penetrating radar or IR equipment, it might be very easy to miss two bodies floating under thick ice.
It seem to have been easy.

2) Supporting the vehicle would have depended on the thickness of the ice, which wouldn't have been uniform across its breadth. Some spots (like the one where the car landed) may have been many inches to a foot or more thick. Other spots may have only been a fraction of an inch thick,especially near the banks.

In fact, IMO, they were very lucky (at least at first) that the car landed where it did. If it had landed on a portion of the ice that was thinner, they would have all drowned and there wouldn't have been a "mystery."

3) The hair can explained far more easily than the bodies. It's likely that snow/ice was on and around the road. The hair may simply been overlooked during the initial search. It wasn't a large amount of hair, so it being missed isn't (to me at least) an enigma.

If it's indeed Ruby's hair, then she may have made it out the pond and then went back for Arnold or her cousin. Or maybe it was tracked up to the road by one of the searchers.
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Old 01-01-2011, 08:56 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cocytus
Why is this case even considered a "mystery?"

1) Everybody involved was intoxicated.
2) In below freezing weather.
3) They were stunned after a car accident.
4) They were found in a nearby body of water after a thaw.
5) The police performed a less than thorough search in frigid weather.

The details about the unknown keys,the "changed clothing" and people "seeing" Arnold at a later time are all distractions.
The keys could have come from anywhere and Arnold may have even found them much earlier than the accident.

The clothing being changed could have either happened while they were out...or maybe it never happened,and he was just wearing something that nobody really noticed.

And people stating that they have "seen" someone is usually not a very reliable source of information.
People can conflate the details of of one more more situations or they even lie to bring attention to themselves.
W/O video or photographic evidence, eyewitness statements,IMHO,are usually worthless.

Bottom line:This was likely the case of people who got drunk,got into accident and died from exposure or drowning or both.
They then weren't found until much later after a less than thorough police search when the body of water that they were located in, thawed.

Again,not much of a "mystery" here.
I agree too.
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