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Old 11-09-2008, 11:49 PM   #16
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Default so many question....

ok this case is extremely baffling. having first heard about this case on a unsolved mysteries episode and living no where near south dakota i still think there is something off about this whole case. think about it: arnold wasnt in the car when it finished rolling down into the icy ditch, we know this because tracy (ruby's cousin) told us this very fact so the onli factor that makes sense would be that arnold was thrown from the car during the crash. there was also no way that arnold opened the door to get ruby out, she got out herself, if he was able to do that he would have been able to get tracy out too. y did ruby shut the door in tracys face? who knows maybe she was scared and unsure about where arnold was coz she knew where tracy was and she wanted to go see if arnold was ok. what happened after that? there are some seriously sick people out there so who knows...someone or some people could have attacked them taken them back to their hideouts or house or whatever and drugged them and **** and then dumped them back around the area. just because the bodies didnt look like there was any foul play doesnt mean stuff didnt happen to them before they died? weather conditions can also do alot to bodies- maybe the coldness of the area covered up the fact that there actually were drugs in their systems?

or maybe they did die out there due to exposure of coldness?? but y was arnolds body very decomposed and ruby's was in good condition? again u can blame the weather for that depending how exposed there bodies were to the open, how far the bodies had travelled due to natural environmental factors. but why werent they discovered sooner? the detectives searcheed a million times and other people who had nothing to do with the case had searched it too...but hmmm maybe they DID have something to do with the case...hmm maybe im being to suspicious here..

Also did anyone hear the part of the episode that states...' there is a questionas far in our investigation if arnold was wearing the same clothes he was the night of the accident'?? what the??? that could mean one of two things....that no one can remember what he was wearing that night and so the police cant rule it out...meh fair enuff...or it could mean what else??? that he changed clothes sumtime between the night of the accident and when his body was found???? it just doesnt make sense...argh i am so frustrated by this case its just so confusing with so many questions unanswered...will it ever be solved???
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Old 11-10-2008, 12:24 AM   #17
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I remember the use of the word "you know" from the girl that survived the crash.
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Old 11-10-2008, 04:39 AM   #18
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If, as the theories state, Ruby's body was near the surface, quite possibly it was found by animals shortly before it was recovered. Predators such as wolves and coyotes will spread things, and hair often stays pretty well-preserved. So the clump of hair appeared shortly after Ruby's body thawed out enough for animals to discover, and its appearance led to a closer look which led to the discovery of her body. Arnold took longer to find. The alleged sighting of him after the accident is beginning to sound very Keri Lynn Nixonish now.
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Old 11-10-2008, 01:24 PM   #19
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I think the answer to this case is very simple. They missed them while searching the first time. Yes the cop said he searched and searched, but he IS human and could miss something. There's just no logic to taking bodies away for the winter and bringing them back. The tuft of hair being misplaced is easily explained by forraging animals.
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Old 11-13-2008, 03:53 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Clairvoyant
Perhaps so.. but we don't know that to be the case.. the police walked the entire lake and none of there weight broke the ice while looking for the couple, not mention there would have been evidence of them falling through the ice.. None was ever found. and there bodies where not that far from the crash site, so this means that radius would most certainly been searched in the following days after the accident.. I also doubt the validity of the claim that Arnold and Ruby was wondering around disoriented , Arnold didn't seem to be so out of it to come back for Ruby and open the car door and then even take time to close the door back.. doesn't sound like the actions of a disoriented person to me.. foul play is somewhere in this case.. proving it will probably be impossible.. and if they both fell in the ice wouldn't you think there would have been together frozen in the ice huddling together? NO there were found a good distance apart.. then there is the state of decomposition they were found in.. none of this makes sense.
There is often a tendency to believe that foul play must have occurred in a mysterious case such as this but the likelihood of foul play in any such case is actually slim. There was a much-publicized case of a missing boy here in Canada (the Barrie, Ontario area) recently. The boy was missing for a few weeks before they finally found his body a week or so ago. Upon finding his body, some locals were interviewed on TV proclaiming that this boy MUST have been the victim of foul play (the boy had left his home willingly, by the way, after a dispute with his parents over his excessive X-Box play). Well, not surprisingly, there was no foul play involved as it is now thought that the boy fell from a tree to his death. I suspect that no foul play was involved in the case being discussed in this thread as well for many of the reasons that have already been given.
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Old 11-13-2008, 07:10 AM   #21
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"Go get some healthy outdoor exercise! Climb a tree or something!"
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Old 11-13-2008, 12:27 PM   #22
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I think Tracy should've been questioned more, or at least had more screen time on the segment. Now, she was in the car with Ruby and Arnold...WHAT DID SHE SEE DURING THE ACCIDENT? I know car accidents are very sudden and shock inducing, but did she SEE Arnold get ejected from the car? I wish she had given more details of what she witnessed during the actual accident.
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Old 11-22-2008, 03:33 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cori aka ChrisSCrush
"Go get some healthy outdoor exercise! Climb a tree or something!"

I think he may have been lost and was trying to get a better vantage point so he could figure which direction was home. The boy's name was Brandon Crisp.
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Old 01-02-2009, 06:48 PM   #24
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For your information the police did a fine investigation. This lake everyone is talking about is a ditch along side the lake. It had 10" of water and ice in it when the accident happened. People said they seen them but someone has them scared. I remember the day they found Ruby. She was floating in that same ditch the car wrecked in face down badly decomposed. So they drained the ditch (at this time with the thaw it was fuller than before). Then they found Arnold (he was not as decomposed as Ruby) he was submerged in the water at the bottom of the ditch. The police did a really good job with this investigation. This happened on a unallotted indian reservation. Where the car wrecked was on state land. But just to the south is tribal land. I know at the time State and tribal police did work together on this but if you have never spent time on the reservation you would never know. No one will rat anyone out.
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Old 01-04-2009, 07:16 AM   #25
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Ten inches of water is not much but could he have been submerged in mud?
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Old 01-09-2009, 12:36 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_Jen
For your information the police did a fine investigation. This lake everyone is talking about is a ditch along side the lake. It had 10" of water and ice in it when the accident happened. People said they seen them but someone has them scared. I remember the day they found Ruby. She was floating in that same ditch the car wrecked in face down badly decomposed. So they drained the ditch (at this time with the thaw it was fuller than before). Then they found Arnold (he was not as decomposed as Ruby) he was submerged in the water at the bottom of the ditch. The police did a really good job with this investigation. This happened on a unallotted indian reservation. Where the car wrecked was on state land. But just to the south is tribal land. I know at the time State and tribal police did work together on this but if you have never spent time on the reservation you would never know. No one will rat anyone out.
So what if they did a really good investigation? That doesn't disprove that they were under the ice the whole time. Humans are capable of making errors. My friend said she couldn't believe the World Trade Towers fell because they were "really well built buildings." So what? They still fell.
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Old 02-11-2009, 03:54 PM   #27
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This just aired again today on Spike TV. While watching the episode and then coming to these boards because I was intrigued enough to do a Google search on "Arnold Archambeau" I have had a few thoughts I would like to share.

Sherlock Holmes was a fan of deduction. He said that if you rule out the impossible, then whatever is left, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.

Applying deduction would be impossible here. We simply cannot know enough of the facts about this case based on a 10-minute, edited for TV segment that ran on a populist entertainment program. There are too many unknowns to make good educated guesses even.

If I were an outside investigator I would assume that everyone involved with the case was lying, simply to avoid having my beliefs tainted by their assertions of what is or what was.

There are a few glaring reason that would suggest this was not a case of foul-play, and more likely just a case of inept and botched investigation. The primary one being that the cause of death found by the coroner upon autopsy was exposure. Even if you assume there was foul-play, how would you kill someone in a way that would look like exposure? There may be a few:

1) Lock them in a deep freezer.

2) Submerge them in freezing water, but not all the way lest they die by drowning.

3) Restrain them outside in sub-freezing to freezing weather.

But it seems to me that if any of these methods was employed then there would have been some evidence of them on the bodies once they were recovered.

Let's assume that the impact of the crash has enough force to throw Arnold Archambeau out of the car and propel him through the ice. Maybe his head hits the ice with enough force to daze or concuss him. Maybe it even outright kills him. He stops breathing once he become submerged so he does not take water into his lungs thereby not drowning. After the accident, Ruby is dazed and comes to. In shock she leaves the car looking for Arnold, leaving her cousin behind and shutting the door. She finds the hole where he went through the ice and thinking to save him she jumps in after him. She cannot find him however because his body was propelled down into the creek bed. She becomes trapped in the hole she jumped into because the water is deep enough that she cannot gain enough purchase to remove herself from the water. The cold saps her strength quickly and she soon dies of exposure, slipping beneath the ice to join Arnold in death, but much closer to the surface since she was not "thrown" into the creek. Finally, during the course of the night while Ruby's cousin is waiting to be rescued, the ice re-freezes over the hole made by Arnold's impact, hiding both Arnold and Ruby from discovery until the spring thaw.

This is a very sketchy theory at best and relies on a lot of improbable events, however, I would submit it as being far more likely than a scenario involving foul-play and body relocation.

As to the hair being found on the side of the road. According to the show's edited time-line the hair was not found until after Ruby was removed from the water. Therefore, it could have easily fallen or been placed there after or during the body's recovery.

Just Jen said:

"this lake everyone is talking about is a ditch along side the lake. It had 10" of water and ice in it when the accident happened"

This would probably squash my theory if it was true. How do you know this? And can you support it with evidence? The fact is pertinent enough to the story that I am surprised it did not make it into the segment. I knew it was a ditch and not a lake but I have seen some very deep ditches before. My theory was based on the assumption that the ditch contained at least 4-5 feet of water and ice.
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Old 02-11-2009, 04:17 PM   #28
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Ruby's shoes were off. This leads me to believe that she had been walking around for a while and starting to suffer from severe hypothermia. Hypothermia victims can get so disoriented that they start removing their clothing and are often found partially clothed. UM never said if her shoes were ever found.

I think the tuft of her hair was found after she was removed from the ditch because of the level of decomposition and no one noticed that it fell from her body.

The cop said he has the suspicious keys found in Arnold's pocket, belonging to an unidentified vehicle and home, in his possession, but has he ever taken them to friends and family to see if they can identify which vehicle or home they belong to?
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Old 02-13-2009, 02:10 PM   #29
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Quote:
This is a very sketchy theory at best and relies on a lot of improbable events, however, I would submit it as being far more likely than a scenario involving foul-play and body relocation.


By default, since there is not enough evidence to prove foul play it must be considered natural causes.


IMHO, there is some information that is incorrect here, that may be why nothing makes logical sense; either

1. Someone is lying
2. The time line is incorrect
3. Crime scene has been contaminated.

i have to watch this episode again, and get baqck to you guys.
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Old 02-13-2009, 03:08 PM   #30
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Watched the segment...made a complete 180 on this case!

1.There is a piece of evidence on this case that is on the Unsolved.com website that was not featured in the segment. (at least i think it wasn't shown)

Soon there was another startling revelation. A witness claimed to have seen Arnold, accompanied by three other people on New Year’s Eve, almost three weeks after he was reported missing. Authorities brought the witness in for a polygraph exam. She passed.

This becomes interesting since there is a possibility that Arnold was not wearing the same clothes when his body was found.

Regarding the keys... it's important to keep in mind that they were BOTH car keys and house keys. Like you and i would carry. People usually don't give both their house and car keys to an individual. They give on or the other depending on whether they need the house or the car.

This leads me to think that the keys were stolen, or picked up by mistake. Which means most likely he was at some point at the house of the keys owner.

Or he was given the keys by the owner who was driving with him, and for some reason Arnold stopped the car and left or was killed and the owner of the keys ditched the car and left the keys with Arnold.

sorry if this is a little confused, im thinking while typing.

3. If you take this as a murder case. The ultimate target of this murder would be Ruby. From what the segment said Ruby and Arnold were having difficulties. If Arnold wanted to get away from his life with Ruby, this would be a good opportuinity. Arnold might have been killed by the people he was hiding out with.

4. I could understand the police overlooking one body....but missing two bodies? And it wasn;t like they both were two of the smallest people in the world.

5. The fact that Arnold was not frozen to the ground tells me that Arnold definitely did not die in the ditch around the time of the accident. He died much later and was thrown into the ditch by someone privy to the circumstances of the case.


This is definitely foul play!!!!!
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