Darlie Routier - Guilty or innocent?

[Icedberry]

Regarding Darlie's neck wound, it is commonly reported that the knife cut necked the sheath of her carotid artery and was 2mm away from the artery itself. Ironically, the knife missing the artery actually harms Darlie's case, and not helps it.

Why? Because when the the neck is raised and pulled back, the carotid artery retreats into the neck as the sternomastoid muscles come over the artery bundle. As a result, the carotid artery will remain intact and a loss of blood is reduced.

When examining a deceased individual with a cut throat, medical examiners will study the carotid artery to determine whether it has been cut or not. This is helpful in determining the final manner of death (homicide or suicide). When neck wounds are self-inflicted, the individuals will typically raise their necks back and unwittingly avoid cutting their cartoid artery. These type of wounds are usually "neater" in appearances. When neck wounds are inflicted by a perpetrator, the skin around the neck is loose, not taut, and the cut is messier as the victim and perpetrator struggle. This will usually result in the carotid artery being cut, as the sternomastoid muscle cannot protect it (Essential Forensic Biology, Alan Gunn, 2011).

Since it is doubtful that Darlie would have willingly extended her neck back for the killer to cut her throat, her carotid artery should have been cut deeply. The fact that it wasn't is another possible (although not definite) sign that her neck wound was self-inflicted.

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by Icedberry

Regarding Darlie's neck wound, it is commonly reported that the knife cut necked the sheath of her carotid artery and was 2mm away from the artery itself. Ironically, the knife missing the artery actually harms Darlie's case, and not helps it.

Why? Because when the the neck is raised and pulled back, the carotid artery retreats into the neck as the sternomastoid muscles come over the artery bundle. As a result, the carotid artery will remain intact and a loss of blood is reduced.

When examining a deceased individual with a cut throat, medical examiners will study the carotid artery to determine whether it has been cut or not. This is helpful in determining the final manner of death (homicide or suicide). When neck wounds are self-inflicted, the individuals will typically raise their necks back and unwittingly avoid cutting their cartoid artery. These type of wounds are usually "neater" in appearances. When neck wounds are inflicted by a perpetrator, the skin around the neck is loose, not taut, and the cut is messier as the victim and perpetrator struggle. This will usually result in the carotid artery being cut, as the sternomastoid muscle cannot protect it (Essential Forensic Biology, Alan Gunn, 2011).

Since it is doubtful that Darlie would have willingly extended her neck back for the killer to cut her throat, her carotid artery should have been cut deeply. The fact that it wasn't is another possible (although not definite) sign that her neck wound was self-inflicted.

This is an excellent point. Glad you brought it up, and it makes perfect sense why the artery was missed now. Thanks!

[MegtheEgg86]

Originally Posted by Icedberry

Regarding Darlie's neck wound, it is commonly reported that the knife cut necked the sheath of her carotid artery and was 2mm away from the artery itself. Ironically, the knife missing the artery actually harms Darlie's case, and not helps it.

Why? Because when the the neck is raised and pulled back, the carotid artery retreats into the neck as the sternomastoid muscles come over the artery bundle. As a result, the carotid artery will remain intact and a loss of blood is reduced.

When examining a deceased individual with a cut throat, medical examiners will study the carotid artery to determine whether it has been cut or not. This is helpful in determining the final manner of death (homicide or suicide). When neck wounds are self-inflicted, the individuals will typically raise their necks back and unwittingly avoid cutting their cartoid artery. These type of wounds are usually "neater" in appearances. When neck wounds are inflicted by a perpetrator, the skin around the neck is loose, not taut, and the cut is messier as the victim and perpetrator struggle. This will usually result in the carotid artery being cut, as the sternomastoid muscle cannot protect it (Essential Forensic Biology, Alan Gunn, 2011).

Since it is doubtful that Darlie would have willingly extended her neck back for the killer to cut her throat, her carotid artery should have been cut deeply. The fact that it wasn't is another possible (although not definite) sign that her neck wound was self-inflicted.

Nice! Great post. I was totally unaware of the "retreating" carotid until now but it makes perfect sense why that mechanism exists in the context of survival. In any event, it definitely doesn't seem to help her case.

[wiseguy182]

I just rewatched the American Justice episode on this I recorded a while back.

-A neighbor reported that she saw two unidenitifed man lurking around the Routier house on the night of the murders, one of which matched Darlie's vague description of her attacker.

-The silly string video is what got her arrested and convicted. There is no question of that. What the public and the jury *DIDN'T* see was videotaped footage from the same birthday celebration that showed Darlie grieving. This was enough to cause a male juror to state publicly that if the jury saw that evidence, it would have got her acquitted. He was 100% certain of that.

-The statements that Darlie and Darin never grieved for their children are simply not factual. There was an interview with Darlie where she was crying - and not fake crying that doesn't produce actual tears, but real crying (as in mascara running). Darin has also seemed choked up on every interview I've ever seen him in.

-the transcript of the trial containing 30,000 errors is actually lowballing it. It's more than 33,000.

There is no motive for Darlie to commit these murders. Some have offered that she thought Devon and Damon were getting in the way of her pampered lifestyle, but if that's the case, then why would she leave Drake unharmed? It doesn't make sense.

[nikkspence]

maybe she planned to kill all three children but Darin took Drake to bed with her and she lost that oppertunity.

Yes I find it hard to understand why the bruises are on her arms and none on her face. I believe the 'killer' would of finished Darlie off because he doesnt need a witness, some one who can give out a discription of him. It doesnt make sence. In a panic would you slash or stab? Is stabbing not more fatal than slashing? The info about the atery is a very valid one, thanks for the info. Again another reason to point to guilty.

I also didnt know about the gate being tied with wires shut, another relavent point.

Begging to be free also makes her look shifty. I would expect and innocent mother to be begging for the killer to be caught. She not a normal mother.


"well if I did it I don't remember". <---- no normal mother would say that!!!!

She's GUILTY!

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by wiseguy182

I-A neighbor reported that she saw two unidenitifed man lurking around the Routier house on the night of the murders, one of which matched Darlie's vague description of her attacker.

I must have watched a different one because I don't remember the program I watched make any mention of that. There was no evidence of an intruder in the house, according to investigators. The one investigator said that there was blood just about everywhere in the house and that if there was an intruder he would have left boot or shoe prints all through the kitchen, the garage, and some evidence outside of the residence. The program also said that one of the knives found in the kitchen block had threads which matched the slashed screen. Unless the intruder stole the Routier's knife beforehand, and then used it to slit the screen, and then put it back in the block there is no way that Darlie didn't cut the screen herself.

Originally Posted by wiseguy182

-The silly string video is what got her arrested and convicted. There is no question of that. What the public and the jury *DIDN'T* see was videotaped footage from the same birthday celebration that showed Darlie grieving. This was enough to cause a male juror to state publicly that if the jury saw that evidence, it would have got her acquitted. He was 100% certain of that.

Another female juror said the silly string didn't get her convicted, but rather her demeanor. Darin and Darlie did not come off good on the stand (according to both the defense and prosecution), and this helped convict Darlie, IMO. The defense were the ones who did not admit the surveillance footage, and it was not blocked or challenged by the prosecution or the judge. They could have admitted it into evidence but they chose not to.

Originally Posted by wiseguy182

-The statements that Darlie and Darin never grieved for their children are simply not factual. There was an interview with Darlie where she was crying - and not fake crying that doesn't produce actual tears, but real crying (as in mascara running). Darin has also seemed choked up on every interview I've ever seen him in.

Darin allegedly walked up to one of the officers at the hospital and kept saying how hot his wife looked, and kept complimenting her breasts. This was mere hours after both of his children were murdered.

Originally Posted by wiseguy182

-the transcript of the trial containing 30,000 errors is actually lowballing it. It's more than 33,000.

Now this I agree with. The errors are just ridiculous. I do think that the court reporter had a bias towards Darlie which would account for the errors. But the reporter was fired shortly after the errors were discovered. I still don't think this has any bearing on Darlie's guilt or innocence though.

Originally Posted by wiseguy182

There is no motive for Darlie to commit these murders. Some have offered that she thought Devon and Damon were getting in the way of her pampered lifestyle, but if that's the case, then why would she leave Drake unharmed? It doesn't make sense.

The show that I watched came up with a motive that I'd never heard before. It was "spousal revenge" or something like that. Basically the theory was that Darlie was frustrated with Darin because they were losing money, Darlie didn't have a car and she was stuck at home with the children all the time, she may have had PPD after having Drake, and that she and Darin began to argue over money. So the best way to get back at Darin (in her mind) was to kill his children. I think she murdered them in some sort of frenzy, and after she realized what she did she went around and staged the scene and then slashed her neck.

[wiseguy182]

Oh God, I just accidentally stumbled upon crime scene photos. Wasn't quite ready for that.

I read most of the transcript of the 911 call. Darlie keeps telling the 911 operator about her babies. Someone stabbed her babies. She refers to them a lot more than herself, even though she was also injured. This is really something. I think her motherly instincts were kicking in and she was more concerned about them than herself.

[TheCars1986]

The responding officer kept telling Darlie to get down on the floor and apply pressure to Damon's wounds because he was still alive. He testified at her trial that she ignored his repeated requests and stood there applying pressure to her neck wound.

[wiseguy182]

Originally Posted by Icedberry

Regarding Darlie's neck wound, it is commonly reported that the knife cut necked the sheath of her carotid artery and was 2mm away from the artery itself. Ironically, the knife missing the artery actually harms Darlie's case, and not helps it.

Why? Because when the the neck is raised and pulled back, the carotid artery retreats into the neck as the sternomastoid muscles come over the artery bundle. As a result, the carotid artery will remain intact and a loss of blood is reduced.

When examining a deceased individual with a cut throat, medical examiners will study the carotid artery to determine whether it has been cut or not. This is helpful in determining the final manner of death (homicide or suicide). When neck wounds are self-inflicted, the individuals will typically raise their necks back and unwittingly avoid cutting their cartoid artery. These type of wounds are usually "neater" in appearances. When neck wounds are inflicted by a perpetrator, the skin around the neck is loose, not taut, and the cut is messier as the victim and perpetrator struggle. This will usually result in the carotid artery being cut, as the sternomastoid muscle cannot protect it (Essential Forensic Biology, Alan Gunn, 2011).

Since it is doubtful that Darlie would have willingly extended her neck back for the killer to cut her throat, her carotid artery should have been cut deeply. The fact that it wasn't is another possible (although not definite) sign that her neck wound was self-inflicted.

I won't argue too much with any of that since you know more about anatomy than I do. But, it does seem to me unlikely that Darlie would take such a risk. I mean, if she miscalculates (even by a few millimeters) or has an involuntary flick of the wrist or something, she's a dead woman.

[wiseguy182]

I recently recorded and watched yet another program on this case. This one was "On Death Row" and it is/was written and directed by Werner Herzog. I'm not a film buff, but apparently he's a big deal in the industry, especially in his native Germany. This is another show where information on the net is pretty scarce. ID felt the need to interject bumpers with Paula Zahn, which were widely panned by viewers. The episode dates from 2011 I believe.

In any event, here are some interesting details that caught my eye.

-There was some evidence that Darlie's jewelry (of which she had quite a few pieces) was rifled through.

-15 years later, Darlie still has several large and noticeable scars, including the one on her neck.

-Everything I've seen out of Darlie indicates to me she loved her children. She lights up when bringing up fond memories of them. She said her first wish, if she got out, would be to have this great reunion with Drake (the unharmed son). Darlie had planned suicide some time before the murders and in the note she wrote to her 3 sons: "I love you more than anything. Please don't think of this as your fault." IMO, that makes her better than say, Gale Delano, who couldn't even be bothered to inform her children that she committed suicide.

-Some of the first responders and investigators formed their opinion that "Darlie did it" in the first few SECONDS they arrived on the scene. Not days, hours, or even minutes. SECONDS. Even more disturbing, one of the first responders felt that Darlie was involved because Darrin came out of the house and he told Darrin (thinking he might be the intruder/attacker) to stay put. As it turns out, Darrin was going over to a neighbor's house, who was a nurse and he thought she might be able to provide help. Why the first responder felt Darlie was guilty based on this, I'll never know but it's obvious that tunnel vision formed at the very outset of this case.

-The importance of the infamous silly string video cannot be understated. The jury watched it 9 times in deliberations. It was stated that after the trial was over, that was all you ever heard about was the silly string video. It was what got her convicted. I mentioned this before, but on the AJ episode, the prosecutors conveniently left out film footage from the very same day that showed a very emotional Darlie grieving at the very same location. The jury, of course, didn't see that. The prosecution picked and chose what they wanted to be shown.

Now, aside from the program, one thing that has never been explained to me is if Darlie wanted to kill her children, then why was Drake, you know, UNHARMED?! And Darlie knew he was upstairs sleeping with Darrin and it would be virtually impossible she could kill him without waking Darrin. That don't make a no sense. And if Darlie did plan to kill her children, would she do in a place where Darrin could easily stumble upon the scene? I'm sorry, but like a lead balloon, that just doesn't fly.

At this point, I feel there is way too much doubt to give Darlie the death penalty.

[wiseguy182]

Drake Routier suffered through Leukemia recently, but it looks like he's recovering nicely. Poor guy, hasn't he suffered enough?

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by wiseguy182

-There was some evidence that Darlie's jewelry (of which she had quite a few pieces) was rifled through.

I've never heard of this before, but it's still possible that this was either claimed by Darlie or committed by Darlie herself.

Originally Posted by wiseguy182

-15 years later, Darlie still has several large and noticeable scars, including the one on her neck.

They were horrible wounds, but testimony at her trial said that the wounds were self inflicted.

Originally Posted by wiseguy182

-Everything I've seen out of Darlie indicates to me she loved her children. She lights up when bringing up fond memories of them. She said her first wish, if she got out, would be to have this great reunion with Drake (the unharmed son). Darlie had planned suicide some time before the murders and in the note she wrote to her 3 sons: "I love you more than anything. Please don't think of this as your fault." IMO, that makes her better than say, Gale Delano, who couldn't even be bothered to inform her children that she committed suicide.

Except Gale Delano didn't murder her children.

Originally Posted by wiseguy182

-Some of the first responders and investigators formed their opinion that "Darlie did it" in the first few SECONDS they arrived on the scene. Not days, hours, or even minutes. SECONDS. Even more disturbing, one of the first responders felt that Darlie was involved because Darrin came out of the house and he told Darrin (thinking he might be the intruder/attacker) to stay put. As it turns out, Darrin was going over to a neighbor's house, who was a nurse and he thought she might be able to provide help. Why the first responder felt Darlie was guilty based on this, I'll never know but it's obvious that tunnel vision formed at the very outset of this case.

The first responders have probably seen several crime scenes before, and I'm sure domestic disputes have produced more carnage that the one Darlie alleged. The absence of any evidence of an intruder also probably made them suspicious, coupled with the way Darlie was acting at the scene. She mentioned that she touched the knife and that her prints might be on them, all the while her children were on the floor dying.

Originally Posted by wiseguy182

-The importance of the infamous silly string video cannot be understated. The jury watched it 9 times in deliberations. It was stated that after the trial was over, that was all you ever heard about was the silly string video. It was what got her convicted. I mentioned this before, but on the AJ episode, the prosecutors conveniently left out film footage from the very same day that showed a very emotional Darlie grieving at the very same location. The jury, of course, didn't see that. The prosecution picked and chose what they wanted to be shown.

The defense, not the prosecution, decided not to admit the surveillance video showing Darlie prior to the silly string incident. That's on Darlie's defense team, not the prosecution. And it's irrelevant either way. There is no evidence that has surfaced over the years that shows any hint of an intruder, or a reason as to why a guy would break into a house and murder two small children.

Originally Posted by wiseguy182

Now, aside from the program, one thing that has never been explained to me is if Darlie wanted to kill her children, then why was Drake, you know, UNHARMED?! And Darlie knew he was upstairs sleeping with Darrin and it would be virtually impossible she could kill him without waking Darrin. That don't make a no sense. And if Darlie did plan to kill her children, would she do in a place where Darrin could easily stumble upon the scene? I'm sorry, but like a lead balloon, that just doesn't fly.

Drake was upstairs asleep with Darrin, meaning she would have had to have gone into the bedroom to murder Drake while Darrin was in earshot. That's why Drake was spared. The Routier house was big, so there's no way in knowing how possible it would have been for Darrin to have heard what was going on downstairs with his relation to where the bedroom was located. The real lead balloon that doesn't fly is why an unarmed intruder would break into a house, motive unknown, and decide to murder two small children using a weapon from the Routier residence, as well as a sock from the laundry room to conceal prints. This "intruder" had no way of knowing if Darrin was in the house, if he was armed, and if he was awake or in a nearby room during this alleged attack. And by Darlie's own account, this "intruder" murdered her two children before deciding to attempt to sexually assault her.

Stuff like this is what's frustrating about cases like Darlie's. Her defenders keep throwing more and more "suspicious" things out there, hoping that something will stick to help drum up reasonable doubt. It doesn't work that way. Based off of the known evidence, even the more recent evidence (including the police officer's hair, not Darlie's being found in the slashed screen) has yet to show any conclusive proof that these murders were committed by anyone other than Darlie.

[everprincess]

If anything the suicide note to me seems to go towards her unstable mind and when you are unstable in the mind you do things. Believe me I'd love to believe that Darlie didn't commit these crimes but the evidence is overwhelming that she did.

[MegtheEgg86]

I guess the biggest thing that has always bothered me about this case is that like the MacDonald case, it is presented (on the defense side of the house) as an instance of a stranger-intruder coming in to physically harm the victim--whether that be assault, rape, or murder--in which said stranger-intruder fails to bring his or her own weapon. When the assailant is known to the victim and has presumably been in the victim's home, that theory just might hold some water. When the assailant's motive is thought to have been burglary--regardless of whether the assailant was known to the victim or not--I can even accept that, too. But a stranger breaking and entering a home and just hoping that somewhere in the night darkness he or she will be able to find a suitable object to utilize as a weapon is something that has always been very difficult for me to envision.

[TheCars1986]

You can take just about any murder case, even the ones where the murderer is 100% guilty (OJ for example), and use twisted facts and logic to come up with "alternate" suspects and scenarios. They are sometimes farfetched, but people still buy them. Darlie's case is no exception. She claims that a man broke into her house, murdered her two sleeping young children, and then attempted to rape/sexually assault her before trying to murder her as well. And she slept through all of it.