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Old 09-16-2008, 10:56 PM   #16
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Try the Doe Network: Case File 33UFTX. Hope this helps.
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Old 09-17-2008, 01:54 AM   #17
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Old threads are fun to remember a few years afterward. I had forgotten how hot Annette Schnee was. She was a real "stormbringer" if I've ever seen one!
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Old 09-17-2008, 01:14 PM   #18
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Oh, Dislimb.... you slay me.
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Old 09-18-2008, 01:57 AM   #19
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Oh, Dislimb.... you slay me.
If I "literally" slayed you then who would defend me when I was on trial for said slaying, my dear?
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Old 09-19-2008, 09:47 AM   #20
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I watched the show "Sensing Murder" and I do agree with them when they said that they think these 2 women were killed by 2 different killers! I agree. I think they were operating together to prey on women. They were collaborating with each other, which is why the 2 women disappeard on the same day only within a few hours of each other. It's more than likely that one killer would not have the time to do this. They were probably on the lookout for women who were alone and looked vulnerable; they were easy prey for guys like that. It didn't hurt that the women were attractive either; but I do think that they were definitely in the wrong place at the wrong time and paid the price for it, sad!
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Old 09-20-2008, 10:34 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmissd
I watched the show "Sensing Murder" and I do agree with them when they said that they think these 2 women were killed by 2 different killers! I agree. I think they were operating together to prey on women. They were collaborating with each other, which is why the 2 women disappeard on the same day only within a few hours of each other. It's more than likely that one killer would not have the time to do this. They were probably on the lookout for women who were alone and looked vulnerable; they were easy prey for guys like that. It didn't hurt that the women were attractive either; but I do think that they were definitely in the wrong place at the wrong time and paid the price for it, sad!
I remember watching the "Sensing Murder" special when it originally aired and I was dumbstruck over how accurate the psychics were in their notes compared to the Unsolved Mysteries segment, aritcles and book I have read on the case.

As I recall, the psychics said they thought two different men committed these murders, however BOTH of them were present for the murder of Annette. They suspected the friend that helped dump Annette's body got some sick high over the murder and wanted to do it himself...so he went out alone, found Bobbi and killed her.

The psychics believed the way in which the women were killed were pretty close to what we saw in the Unsolved Mysteries segment except for a few differences in Annette's case. In the UM segment, investigators speculated that she was driven down that dead end road, raped and murdered in that same area. However, the psychics saw in their visions Annette being driven to a different location and being raped inside a car. Then she dressed again in a hurry (her shirt was on inside out and one of her socks was in her jacket pocket) and was let go for some reason only to be shot. The men then put Annette's body in the trunk of the car, drove out to the creek and dumped her body where it would be found 6 months later.

Bobbi's death was spot in every detail with what we saw in the UM segment. Her attacker picked her up, drove her about 10 miles, attempted to rape her by binding her wrist, she fought him off and escaped out of the van running about 100 feet down the road. The killer followed her in his van and When he stopped his vehicle, Bobbi turned and ran off the road (probably in an attempt to hide behind some trees) and that was when she was shot in the back and killed.

One more detail in regards to Bobbi's killer, the psychics said she knew her killer and he had come on to her before when she had always wished he would just go away.

Even all these years later, this case still gives me the creeps.
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Old 03-15-2009, 02:59 PM   #22
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I have no idea why, but the Speed Limit 50 sign really freaks me out in the segment
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Old 03-15-2009, 04:50 PM   #23
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I have no idea why, but the Speed Limit 50 sign really freaks me out in the segment
?
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Old 03-16-2009, 11:52 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmissd
I watched the show "Sensing Murder" and I do agree with them when they said that they think these 2 women were killed by 2 different killers!
No one killer.
I think many times psychics destroys more than they help in a case. As to why the psychics is "spot on" many times is because they know the case. It is simply not believable that they did not have a lot of information on this case and all other cases on Sensing Murder. These are well know cases and a psychic are more interested in murder cases than a average person. They lie when they say that they know nothing about the cases. And this lie tells me that these people are not helping, on the contrary they are confusing and damaging the investigation. I have seen a lot of the episodes of Sensing Murder and not one new thing have "they" come up with. Not a single thing. What is the name of the killer, where is the licenses plate number, where does the killer live. Just bull**** like: I'm inside the head of the killer now, I can feel the victims pain, she is okey where she is now(talking to the victims parents).
But it is always good to have a case on the tv anyway. But I don't understand the concept of these programs: The lesser you know the better. This is of course bull****. The more information you have even if you are so called a psychic the better. And stop pretending you know nothing because you wanna impress with your psychic ability's; Deb Webber, Sue Nicholson, Kelvin Cruickshank and the rest.

And now to the Thomas Edward Luther speculation. It's not him ! Get that!
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“We were sure it was Luther,” McCormick said. But there wasn’t enough evidence to take the case to trial. No physical evidence tied him to the murder scenes, and when investigators interviewed him, he denied involvement.
Then in 1993, Luther was charged with the murder of Cher Elder, who was shot in the head and dumped. Luther had cut off her ring finger and lips because she threatened to expose an illegal sports-card ring connected to him.

Thomas Edward Luther

The following year, Luther was convicted in West Virginia in a the rape of a 30-year-old Virginia woman. In each of Luther’s convictions, he attacked women who resembled his mother, who abused him, prosecutors have said.

At about the same time, the blood on Oberholtzer’s wool glove that was found on the other side of a barbed wire fence along U.S. 285 was tested for DNA. Investigators had long believed that it was her blood because it was her blood type. But the DNA was that of a man.
“Whoever’s blood it is has a lot of explaining to do,” McCormick said. “We’re 99 percent sure it’s the blood of the killer.”
McCormick said investigators were convinced that the blood would link Luther to the crime and be the key evidence leading to his conviction. But his DNA did not match.

One theory is that Luther was with someone that night and that the blood is that of an accomplice, McCormick said. But when they tested the DNA of a friend of Luther’s from Vermont who had been with Luther in Colorado, there was no match, he said.
Luther remains a suspect, but in all likelihood, the culprit is someone else, McCormick said.
Jeff Oberholtzer’s blood was tested and also did not match. Several other suspects have been tested and excluded.

But another suspect, Tracy Petrocelli, on death row in Nevada after killing a man during a cross-country spree with stops in Colorado, continues to be a suspect, even though his blood didn’t match, either.
So now that he is out of question. Lets talk about the case
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Old 09-27-2009, 04:37 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StackTime
I have no idea why, but the Speed Limit 50 sign really freaks me out in the segment
I get you, bro.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dynoguy88
One more detail in regards to Bobbi's killer, the psychics said she knew her killer and he had come on to her before when she had always wished he would just go away.
I haven't seen the Sensing Murder episode, but I have read that Jeff Oberholtzer was sure his wife wouldn't have taken a ride from someone she didn't know, especially at night--she wasn't exactly fond of hitching, but had no choice as Jeff needed their only vehicle for work. He believed that whoever killed her was a friend or acquaintance; someone she trusted enough not to bother with calling Jeff and asking him to come pick her up.

The personalities of the two women are interesting elements. Bobbi has been described as "scrappy", outspoken, a very strong personality. Annette was somewhat docile, quiet, and introspective. Of the two, Bobbi would've been far more likely to fight against her attacker (evidence of which was found on Bobbi's wool glove and the several Kleenexs found with her backpack--the blood was not hers, but almost certainly the assailant's; authorities believe she may have popped him in the nose at some point during the struggle). I think her killer knew her--and this particular nuance of her personality--for two reasons:

1. The killer DID drive the correct route towards Bobbi's Alma home from Breckenridge with no deviations or detours. Perhaps he believed doing so would immediately arouse his passenger's suspicion and compel her to cause an unmanageable ruckus. That is why he waited until he got to Hoosier Pass before attacking her--it's not an uncommon place to find a parked vehicle, but obscure enough at that time of night, away from city lights, traffic, and activity.

2. The killer attempted to restrain her with flex-cuffs, something he did not do during the attack on Annette. He knew she would fight.


There is no way of knowing exactly where Annette was killed. If she was indeed murdered where she was found near the dead-end road off CO HWY 9, she was driven a pretty fair distance from her home in Blue River--past the Oberholtzer home, in fact. She would've certainly known she was in danger well before she was murdered. It seems Annette did not resist in an attempt to survive, and perhaps this is why her attacker felt he could take more liberties with her. Possibly he was acquainted with her as well. Perhaps he was simply banking on the debilitating fear he'd strike in her or just the stereotype that women are passive.

As a sidenote, Annette seems to have a lot of people in her story that are yet to be identified--the unknown woman she was talking to that day at The Drug Store in Breckenridge shortly before she set to hitch home, and an unidentified man whose photo was found with her belongings:

http://www.rockymountaincoldcase.com...erywoman50.jpg

http://www.rockymountaincoldcase.com...knownphoto.jpg
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Old 09-27-2009, 10:15 AM   #26
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2. The killer attempted to restrain her with flex-cuffs, something he did not do during the attack on Annette. He knew she would fight.
Really, he used flex-cuffs? How common are they among non-law enforcement back then?

I assume they could be bough in any army/navy store? no?
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Old 09-27-2009, 11:34 AM   #27
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Really, he used flex-cuffs? How common are they among non-law enforcement back then?

I assume they could be bough in any army/navy store? no?
I stand corrected. Turns out they were cable ties, the plastic zip ties used to bundle electronic wires together.

That provides a whole other interesting element altogether. One would have to at least know of cable ties, and where to go for them. I can't imagine those being readily available at your average discount store, especially in Alma. Perhaps an electronics store or repair shop (or someone's place of employment) in a bigger city, like Breckenridge or Denver.
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Old 09-27-2009, 12:45 PM   #28
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From COLD CASE ARREST STIRS HOPE FOR LOCAL INVESTIGATORS, Park County Bulletin NewsExtra (2 FEB 2008):


Can You Help Investigators?
Do you have any recollection of
or information on:

Old Colorado License Plate ZD-25
Anyone with any information or tips on possible owner of old local license plate is asked to contact investigators
(see image below)

Former Placer Valley residents sought Note: These individuals are sought for possible information only and not as suspects..
Do you remember two brothers who rented a house in Placer Valley known as the Chicken Coop? (2191 Park County Road 6 near Alma)
Other information on the brothers:
-Employed by NORDIC PLUMBING, a 1980s local business owned and operated by Fairplay resident, Brian Nordby
-They may have been from Kentucky or Tennessee.
-The younger brother may have just married at the time and had a small infant child
-They drove a gray Chevrolet or Dodge van


(Information released by Investigators)


See Contact Information Bottom of Page

http://parkbull.com/newsextra/080202dnadatabase.html
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Old 09-27-2009, 12:54 PM   #29
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Yes Megtheegg, very interesting. Cable ties. I would imagine that the killer's occupation also would involve something that used cable ties. Clearly he was familiar with them and how to use them to restrain someone. I think the odds are pretty good that Bobbie and Annette were killed by the same person or persons. I am not sure if it was one man or a two man team that did these killings.

I will say though, regardless of who did it, assuming it was the same person or persons that did this, they were pretty bold to do these killings on the same night. That tells me they were experienced in what they were doing. An inexperienced killer would not do two killings on the same night like this because frankly he would not know what to expect. So that tells me these were not the first and probably not the last killings this guy did.

I also find it interesting and I think there is a reasonable chance that at least Bobbi Oberholtzer knew who this killer was or at least had met him before. Clearly he knew where she lived, in that case he went the way of her home, whereas in Annette's case he went in a completely opposite direction. This leads me to believe that while the killer knew Bobbi Oberholtzer before this happened, he did not know Annette. That photo that Annette had of that unidentified man is interesting. Judging by his haircut he looks like he was in the military at the time the photo was taken. Either that or he was perhaps even a state prisoner as at least at that time it was not uncommon for prisoners to be required to have haircuts like that depending on what state they were in.
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Old 09-27-2009, 01:19 PM   #30
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Yes Megtheegg, very interesting. Cable ties. I would imagine that the killer's occupation also would involve something that used cable ties. Clearly he was familiar with them and how to use them to restrain someone. I think the odds are pretty good that Bobbie and Annette were killed by the same person or persons. I am not sure if it was one man or a two man team that did these killings.

I will say though, regardless of who did it, assuming it was the same person or persons that did this, they were pretty bold to do these killings on the same night. That tells me they were experienced in what they were doing. An inexperienced killer would not do two killings on the same night like this because frankly he would not know what to expect. So that tells me these were not the first and probably not the last killings this guy did.
I agree. It was brazen to commit two murders on the same night, and I too think whomever did this had certainly done it before--maybe in the same area, perhaps not. I get a weird feeling I can't quite put my finger on that leads me to believe the individual(s) had lived in the Breckenridge/general vicinity of South Park area for a good while, but was/were not originally from that area. And aren't in that area anymore.

Quote:
I also find it interesting and I think there is a reasonable chance that at least Bobbi Oberholtzer knew who this killer was or at least had met him before. Clearly he knew where she lived, in that case he went the way of her home, whereas in Annette's case he went in a completely opposite direction. This leads me to believe that while the killer knew Bobbi Oberholtzer before this happened, he did not know Annette. That photo that Annette had of that unidentified man is interesting. Judging by his haircut he looks like he was in the military at the time the photo was taken. Either that or he was perhaps even a state prisoner as at least at that time it was not uncommon for prisoners to be required to have haircuts like that depending on what state they were in.
That's exactly what I thought about the photo. It's poor quality, but the clothing he's wearing reminds me of an enlisted Navy uniform--or a prisoner's attire. His hairstyle is a stark contrast to the longish looks of the early '80s worn by many men--facial hair was also fashionable then; this man is clean-shaven. In fact, I contacted rockymountaincoldcase.com and mentioned that. The individual who replied agreed and allowed to me that absolutely no one with ANY ties whatsover to Annette thus far has been able to provide even an idea of who the man may be--including her family in Iowa. (The people at rockymountaincoldcase.com are great, by the way. They replied to my message within 24 hours and are very friendly.)

Is it just me, or does his right eye look impaired in some way? It almost looks like someone's socked him, but there's not any intelligible significant bruising surrounding the eye that I can see.
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