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Old 05-20-2021, 08:50 AM   #76
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Carr's father lived in New York, in Yonkers. It's possible that he could have traveled repeatedly from North Dakota to NYC to commit "cult" murders, but highly unlikely.



This article says that the Carr's had a sister. Her name? Wheat. There's the "Wheaties" connection.



All of the composite sketches resemble Berkowitz more than either Carr brother. And, according to the Innocence Project, 70% of wrongful convictions that were overturned by DNA mistaken eyewitnesses were a primary factor in those convictions. Meaning, just because someone says that the shooter they saw absolutely was not Berkowitz, is meaningless. Eyewitnesses are notorious for being wrong.



The problem is, you need evidence besides "the composites didn't all look like Berkowitz", of which Maury Terry has never really produced over the years. He couldn't even conclusively link Berkowitz to the Carrs, or a cult.
That's definitely a matter of opinion. I think you ought to go back and look at them. And the Stacy Moscowitts shooter definitely did not look like Berkowitz.

And according to Berkowitz, Carr was likely only involved in a one or two of the shootings, meaning he only had to be in New York two nights.
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Old 05-20-2021, 09:30 AM   #77
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It is a shame with MT-if he had just left it at the slack & rushed job the cops did rather than Satanic Cults then he might have raised a lot of doubts in people's minds. The crazy part is it is almost certain if DB had plead not guilty then he wouldn't have been convicted-seeing as they searched his car illegally & so that evidence would have all been inadmissible. Not sure if he had legal representation-but if so then his lawyer sucked.
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Old 05-20-2021, 09:52 AM   #78
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That's definitely a matter of opinion. I think you ought to go back and look at them. And the Stacy Moscowitts shooter definitely did not look like Berkowitz.


Berkowitz in the army:



The shootings occurred over the course of a year. Berkowitz could have changed hairstyles, put on or lost weight, etc. over that time span. Neither Carr brother looks anything any composite sketch.

John:



Michael:

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Old 05-20-2021, 11:04 AM   #79
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Also, it seems weird to me that this cult would have members from as far away as North Dakota, who would hold all of their activities in a park that was 2.5 miles away from where they lived. Again, Maury Terry cannot link Berkowitz to Untermeyer Park.

And maybe it's just me, but if I was involved in the Son of Sam murders in conjunction with Berkowitz, I don't think I would have sat down for an interview with the New York Times to complain about the notoriety the case was bringing me, let alone speak about the continued harassment from Berkowitz. You would think they would want to distance themselves as far away from the case as possible. And I certainly wouldn't have consented to having my picture taken (which is where the photo above of Michael comes from).
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Old 05-20-2021, 01:35 PM   #80
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If you see no resemblance between John Carr and that June 27th sketch or the one next to it, I honestly don't know what to tell you. Its almost a dead ringer. If anything Carr looks more like that one than Berkowitz resembles the one on the far right which looks most like him.

And you left out the wavy haired one and the one of the Stacy Moscowitts shooter, neither of which looks anything like either of Berkowitz or Carr.

Again, I can't say for certain Berkowitz didn't act alone. None of us were there. But to dismiss it completely is just disingenuous given all the facts.
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Old 05-20-2021, 02:57 PM   #81
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If you see no resemblance between John Carr and that June 27th sketch or the one next to it, I honestly don't know what to tell you. Its almost a dead ringer. If anything Carr looks more like that one than Berkowitz resembles the one on the far right which looks most like him.

And you left out the wavy haired one and the one of the Stacy Moscowitts shooter, neither of which looks anything like either of Berkowitz or Carr.

Again, I can't say for certain Berkowitz didn't act alone. None of us were there. But to dismiss it completely is just disingenuous given all the facts.
Looks more like Paul McCartney, Carr looks more like John Lennon-it is all in the eye of the beholder.
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Old 05-20-2021, 03:08 PM   #82
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But to dismiss it completely is just disingenuous given all the facts.
What facts?

There is nothing but speculation about the Carr's involvement. No one can place them as having known or associated with Berkowitz. There is nothing concrete tying them to the murders, outside of the name "Wheaties" and blaming their father's dog as the one who gave him orders to murder. Berkowitz was a prototype for the incel of today; angry, lonely, and misogynistic.
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Old 06-14-2021, 11:37 AM   #83
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Maury Terry might've fallen off the deep end with some of the conclusions in his book, but even still, this Investigative Reports segment (link) has me convinced the 'Process Church' had a hand in this somehow.

You can label DB however you want and ascribe whatever motive you want to him. To me, there's just no consistency (or not enough of it) for me to believe he's the one and only shooter.
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Old 06-14-2021, 12:12 PM   #84
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Maury Terry might've fallen off the deep end with some of the conclusions in his book, but even still, this Investigative Reports segment (link) has me convinced the 'Process Church' had a hand in this somehow.

You can label DB however you want and ascribe whatever motive you want to him. To me, there's just no consistency (or not enough of it) for me to believe he's the one and only shooter.
What would the Process Church motive be?
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Old 06-15-2021, 09:09 AM   #85
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Maury Terry might've fallen off the deep end with some of the conclusions in his book, but even still, this Investigative Reports segment (link) has me convinced the 'Process Church' had a hand in this somehow.

You can label DB however you want and ascribe whatever motive you want to him. To me, there's just no consistency (or not enough of it) for me to believe he's the one and only shooter.
Thank you for posting this. I was going to post the video link as well but never did . The video now requires age verification (it's been up for years but didn't used to require sign-in). I still get a kick out of the one guy's costume (the law enforcement agent in silhouette). It looks like the Undertaker's garb from his 1999 run (albeit with a baseball hat on). The Investigative Reports episode is fantastic.

I have been looking for the Ira Einhorn Investigative Reports episode but have not been able to find it. The one on Youtube is not in English and is not subtitled.
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Old 06-15-2021, 03:44 PM   #86
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What would the Process Church motive be?
From the following link (click here)


"Decorated former NYPD Detectives Jim Rothstein and Michael Cordella espouse not just the multiple-shooter notion, but that the Process Church enacted the entire campaign. Both ex-cops state that they came to this conclusion after being involved when the city reopened the Son of Sam case in the early 1990s, looking to tie up loose ends.

Codella says that, in America, the Process Church established ties with outlaw biker gangs, primarily to make money by running drugs, but also for human trafficking and other unsavory criminal activities. Cordella further alleges that one of his biker informants personally witnessed the Process sacrifice a human being."
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Old 06-15-2021, 06:04 PM   #87
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From the following link (click here)


"Decorated former NYPD Detectives Jim Rothstein and Michael Cordella espouse not just the multiple-shooter notion, but that the Process Church enacted the entire campaign. Both ex-cops state that they came to this conclusion after being involved when the city reopened the Son of Sam case in the early 1990s, looking to tie up loose ends.

Codella says that, in America, the Process Church established ties with outlaw biker gangs, primarily to make money by running drugs, but also for human trafficking and other unsavory criminal activities. Cordella further alleges that one of his biker informants personally witnessed the Process sacrifice a human being."
I don't know if the Process Church did any of that, but if they did, then killing random beautiful women/couples seem off their mark
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Old 06-18-2021, 03:02 PM   #88
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I am uncertain of this case as well. I tend to believe he acted alone. But, that being said, it is odd that while only two of the composite sketches resemble David, that at least one of the sketches resembles, very strongly, John Carr.

.

There were multiple sketches that resembled (almost to a T) John Carr. However, for some reason in the Dennis Farina re-airing, producers left off (probably just by sloppiness) one of the other photos that resembled John Carr.

Also, whoever killed Stacy Moskowitz was def not Berkowitz, as described by Tommy Zaino who saw the shooting and the suspect sprint off. As he said, there is no way Berkowitz could have run in that fashion, and/or gain 90 pounds a week later when he was finally arrested.
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Old 06-18-2021, 03:05 PM   #89
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What facts?

There is nothing but speculation about the Carr's involvement.
It can't simply be coincidence that 2-3 composites of one of the killers had almost uncanny similarities to how John Carr (and his hair) looked. Berkowitz and Carr looked nothing alike either.

The final murder also - if we take Tommy Zaino and his gf at their word - could in no way have been Berkowitz (as to the shooter, I mean). Berkowitz was not in that type of physical shape to run off in the manner that the shooter did.
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Old 06-18-2021, 06:43 PM   #90
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This was kind of an unintentionally funny moment for me--Maury Terry taking his future wife to one of the shooting locations on their first date! There's being passionate about your research and then there's being practically married to it...
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