Sitcoms Online - Main Page / Message Boards - Main Page / News Blog / Photo Galleries / DVD Reviews / Buy TV Shows on DVD and Blu-ray

View Today's Active Threads / View New Posts / Mark All Boards Read / Chit Chat Board


Unsolved Mysteries Online Main Page / Message Board / Show History / Episode Guide (1987-2002) / Expanded Episode Guide #2 / Expanded Episode Guide #3 / Case Updates / Wiki / Official Site / Related Links / True Crime Shows Message Board / All Other Cases Message Board / Buy The Best of Unsolved Mysteries DVD / Buy Unsolved Mysteries - The Ultimate Collection DVD

Unsolved Mysteries: Original Robert Stack Episodes - The Complete First Season

Watch or Buy Unsolved Mysteries: Original Robert Stack Episodes - The Complete First Season on Amazon Instant Video
/
Season 2
/ Season 3 / Season 4 /
Season 5
/ Season 6 / Season 7 /
Season 8
/ Season 9 / Season 10 /
Season 11
/ Season 12 / Watch on YouTube

Unsolved Mysteries with Dennis Farina Episodes

Watch or Buy Unsolved Mysteries with Dennis Farina - The Complete First Season Episodes on Amazon Instant Video
/ Season 2 / Season 3 / Season 4 / Season 5 / Season 6 / Season 7 / Season 8 / Watch on YouTube


Unsolved Mysteries: UFOs

Buy Unsolved Mysteries: UFOs DVD Set
Unsolved Mysteries: Ghosts

Buy Unsolved Mysteries: Ghosts DVD Set
Unsolved Mysteries: Miracles

Buy Unsolved Mysteries: Miracles DVD Set
Unsolved Mysteries: Bizarre Murders

Buy Unsolved Mysteries: Bizarre Murders DVD Set
Unsolved Mysteries: Psychics

Buy Unsolved Mysteries: Psychics DVD Set
Unsolved Mysteries: Strange Legends

Buy Unsolved Mysteries: Strange Legends DVD Set

Sitcoms Online Message Boards - Forums  

Go Back   Sitcoms Online Message Boards - Forums > Unsolved Mysteries

Notices

SitcomsOnline.com News Blog Headlines Twitter Facebook Instagram RSS

Sitcom Stars on Talk Shows; This Week in Sitcoms (Week of December 16, 2019)
SitcomsOnline Digest: HBO Max Developing Comedy Series Based Upon Vacation Films; Beverly Hillbillies Mansion Sells for $150 Million
Fri-Yay: Hope for Sitcoms of the 2020s; Good Times Cast Announced for Next Live in Front of a Studio Audience
All in the Family Cast Announced for Next Live in Front of a Studio Audience; Curb Returns Jan. 19
Reno 911 Returning with New Episodes; Remembering Philip McKeon of Alice
77th Annual Golden Globe Awards Nominees; Hugh Laurie HBO Comedy Set for January
Remembering René Auberjonois of Benson; Brady Bunch Star to Give Tour of White House on HGTV


New on DVD/Blu-ray (October/November/December)

Life with Lucy - The Complete Series Step by Step - The Complete Fifth Season The Big Bang Theory - The Twelfth and Final Season The King of Queens - The Complete Series (Mill Creek) Fuller House - The Complete Fourth Season

10/08 - Leave it to Beaver - The Complete Series
10/08 - Life with Lucy - The Complete Series
10/15 - Mom - The Complete Sixth Season
10/16 - Our Miss Brooks - Season 1 - Volume 1
10/16 - Our Miss Brooks - Season 1 - Volume 2
11/05 - The Fonz and the Happy Days Gang - The Complete Animated Series
11/05 - Laverne & Shirley in the Army (Animated Series) - The DVD Edition
11/05 - Letterkenny - Seasons 1 & 2
11/05 - Step by Step - The Complete Fifth Season (WBShop.com)
11/12 - The Big Bang Theory - The Twelfth and Final Season (Blu-ray)
11/12 - The Big Bang Theory - The Complete Series (Blu-ray Limited Edition)
11/18 - The Guest Book - Season Two
11/19 - The King of Queens - The Complete Series (Mill Creek)
11/19 - The Kominsky Method - The Complete First Season (Blu-ray)
12/03 - The Simpsons - The Nineteenth Season
12/03 - The Simpsons - Seasons 1-20: Limited Collector's Set
12/10 - Family Guy - Season Seventeen
12/17 - Fuller House - The Complete Fourth Season
More TV DVD Releases / DVD Reviews Archive / SitcomsOnline Digest


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-24-2007, 09:40 PM   #16
nohwheregirl
THE Mystery Machine
Senior Member
 
nohwheregirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 23, 2004
Posts: 1,043
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thiussat
I am no medical examiner....
That's right, you're not. I'm not either, but I don't think that because I took a forensic anthropology class in college, I could possibly know what a medical examiner could or could not tell from Crystal's partially decomposed body.

The fact that the medical examiner ruled manner of death as "natural causes" when they could not actually determine the cause, and basically ignored the circumstances of her death, is what sounds suspicious to me. There have been cases where they knew that the victim was murdered because of the circumstances surrounding the death, and yet still could not determine a cause of death because of the decomposition of the body (see, for example, the murder of Kristi Johnson in L.A.). How "accurate" an autopsy can be after decades should be judged on a case by case basis. It has only been in recent years that pathologists and forensic anthropologist have done actual extensive experimental research on body composition (i.e., Forensic Anthropology Research Center at the University of Tennessee).

Also, blunt force trauma would probably be among the easiest to determine because there would be damage to the skeleton or ruptured organs.
nohwheregirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2007, 11:24 PM   #17
Jediknight1823
Member
Forum Regular
 
Join Date: Jun 07, 2006
Posts: 250
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thiussat
Again, I haven't seen the segment. But I must ask, for those of you who think she was murdered, how do you get around the fact that the medical examiner could find no evidence of it? Usually when someone is murdered, they receive either a knife wound, a gunshot wound, asphyxiation, or blunt force trauma. None of these happened to her. That means if she was murdered it had to be some "internal" source like poisons. Poisons or drugs are not consistent with screams.
According to the autopsy, Crystal Spencer grew about 7 inches, and gained over 30 pounds from when she was last seen. I'm not putting too much faith in that autopsy report.
Jediknight1823 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2007, 12:37 AM   #18
spark19
Member
Frequent Poster
 
Join Date: May 07, 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 122
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediknight1823
According to the autopsy, Crystal Spencer grew about 7 inches, and gained over 30 pounds from when she was last seen. I'm not putting too much faith in that autopsy report.

Oh that's right! I totally forgot about that!

Yea, I've always felt that she was murdered, and most likely by someone that is associated with law enforcement. That is the only thing that could explain the completely inaccurate autopsy report, and the police trying to force the idea of her being an addict or just being sick...
spark19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2007, 05:32 AM   #19
wiseguy182
Member
Senior Member
 
wiseguy182's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 11, 2006
Location: Wendy's salad bar
Posts: 6,907
Default

Thiussat, It is a realistic scenario that Crystal could have screamed bloody murder upon being poisoned. If an intruder was in her home, that alone would explain the screams.

I too believe Crystal was murdered. There wouldn't be any reason for her to scream if she was about to commit suicide. Typically, people that commit suicide seem happier than usual, as they tell themselves that they will not have to endure the stresses of their lives much longer.

The probable murderer appears to be very good at covering his tracks. That would explain the lack of an obvious cause of death and possible signs of a struggle. Kind of reminds me of the Kurt Sova case in that sense.

I am a bit puzzled by the lack of signs of a forced entry. That would lead me to believe it was someone she knew. Or it was the landlord. I wonder if anyone has checked into the landlord, as he/she would probably a way to get into her apartment.

In the Tara Breckinridge segment, it mentions that the security guard for the gentleman's club assisted each of the ladies to their vehicles. It's possible that Crystal had an admirer, I guess you could call it, that did her in. She must have been a prime target for someone as she was a female living alone in L.A. and was what many would consider attractive.

I totally missed the Flock of Seagulls haircuts on the neighbors. I tend to miss things like that. I'll have to rewatch it and check that out. I guess I was too distracted by my thinking they were morons for not calling the police.
wiseguy182 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2007, 06:59 AM   #20
Thiussat
Member
Forum Regular
 
Thiussat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 09, 2007
Posts: 579
Default

Quote:
The fact that the medical examiner ruled manner of death as "natural causes" when they could not actually determine the cause, and basically ignored the circumstances of her death, is what sounds suspicious to me.
Is this in the segment? If not, then what makes you think the ME "could not determine the manner of her death?" And if he/she couldn't, what motive would they have for covering it up? This sounds like a conspiracy theory without any proof to me.

Quote:
There have been cases where they knew that the victim was murdered because of the circumstances surrounding the death, and yet still could not determine a cause of death because of the decomposition of the body (see, for example, the murder of Kristi Johnson in L.A.).
Depends on the level of decomposition. Crystal was dead for about a week, correct? I know her face was unrecognizable and her skin was darkened, but I doubt her body was too decomposed for a cause of death to be determined.

Quote:
How "accurate" an autopsy can be after decades should be judged on a case by case basis. It has only been in recent years that pathologists and forensic anthropologist have done actual extensive experimental research on body composition (i.e., Forensic Anthropology Research Center at the University of Tennessee).
I am not sure about this. I think forensic scientists have known about how decomposed a body can be for determining cause of death for quite a while before the "body farm" at UT was ever opened.

Quote:
Also, blunt force trauma would probably be among the easiest to determine because there would be damage to the skeleton or ruptured organs.
Exactly, and there was no sign of it. What I meant with it being difficult was that her skin may have been in a such state that obvious bruises would not be detected. Internally, however, you're right, it would be easy. Also, I think if she was shot or stabbed that would be quite easy to see (hell, I could see that). This would leave asphyxiation, which should be detectable too.

Basically what we are left with are three options:

A) The autopsy report was done by the most incompetent pathologist in America.

B) The pathologist was not incompetent but was rather involved in a police cover-up (no one has yet to put forth a plausible theory as to why)

C) The pathologist was right and she was killed by natural causes.
Thiussat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2007, 07:09 PM   #21
nohwheregirl
THE Mystery Machine
Senior Member
 
nohwheregirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 23, 2004
Posts: 1,043
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thiussat
Is this in the segment? If not, then what makes you think the ME "could not determine the manner of her death?" And if he/she couldn't, what motive would they have for covering it up? This sounds like a conspiracy theory without any proof to me.
If they had determined the cause of death, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. With all due respect, you are talking out of your a**. Please take the time to watch the segment, and/or back up your statements with some kind of proof/references rather than arguing just for the sake of arguing.
nohwheregirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2007, 09:20 PM   #22
Jediknight1823
Member
Forum Regular
 
Join Date: Jun 07, 2006
Posts: 250
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thiussat
B) The pathologist was not incompetent but was rather involved in a police cover-up (no one has yet to put forth a plausible theory as to why)
She was a stripper, there's the possibility that the medical examiner or a police officer saw her dancing a lot. He developed a thing for her, he went to see if he could start something with her, after she shot him down he snapped and killed her. And it was proceeded to be covered up.

People have killed for less. It's completely possible that this was the case. I think that she was murdered, it may not have been a cop that did it. But I do think that she was killed and at the very least the medical examiner screwed up massively.
Jediknight1823 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2007, 02:19 AM   #23
wiseguy182
Member
Senior Member
 
wiseguy182's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 11, 2006
Location: Wendy's salad bar
Posts: 6,907
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Space Invaderz
this case is more memorable for the neighbours "Flock of Seagulls" haircuts
I don't know why, but when I rewatched the segment yesterday, I thought the guy looked like the lead singer from Air Supply, and the girl looked like the xlyphonohist from the Thompson Twins. Or maybe I'm just crazy.

It's really difficult to determine what happened here. The sounds that different people in the apartment complex heard were described as sounds they had never heard before. And, as mentioned before, the cause of death was undetermined.

That one guy that passed off the discrpancies in Crystal's height and weight with the autopsy report as a minor error due to the heavy workload of the examiners really irritated me. I get the impression he knows more than he's saying.
wiseguy182 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2007, 02:31 AM   #24
Thiussat
Member
Forum Regular
 
Thiussat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 09, 2007
Posts: 579
Default

Quote:
If they had determined the cause of death, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. With all due respect, you are talking out of your a**. Please take the time to watch the segment, and/or back up your statements with some kind of proof/references rather than arguing just for the sake of arguing.
My, my, snappy aren't we?

The cause of death is not the issue, if we are to believe the ME. He/she ruled it as "natural causes." Natural causes does not equate to "maybe a murder, but I'm not sure."

Again, you are left with two options: an incompetent ME or a massive cover-up by the police. The second option seems absurd. Perhaps the first option is the right one, but I can't see why a second autopsy was not done if there was this much doubt in the case.
Thiussat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2007, 03:40 AM   #25
Awsi Dooger
Member
Senior Member
 
Awsi Dooger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 18, 2003
Location: Miami
Posts: 1,507
Default

A couple of things:

In reading those articles Justin posted in the other thread a couple of nights ago, I think the boyfriend did say he tried to call several times after last seeing Crystal, but never got through. It might have been a busy signal. At least one of the articles said Crystal had a tendency to keep her phone off the hook.

Also, FWIW it looks like Susan Akin and Jet Taylor are no longer married, although I don't know the specifics. One blurb said she has became a wife and mother, and "over the next 17 years, Ms. Akin's experiences have led her down a path of joy and grief, hope and despair, challenge and fear, excitement and disappointment." All the recent references call her Susan Akins, not Susan Akins-Taylor. She is a professional speaker.

http://www.c4pd.com/keynote_akin.htm
Awsi Dooger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2007, 09:30 AM   #26
nohwheregirl
THE Mystery Machine
Senior Member
 
nohwheregirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 23, 2004
Posts: 1,043
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thiussat
Natural causes does not equate to "maybe a murder, but I'm not sure."
When did I ever say or imply this? You're either misunderstanding my arguement, or you're willfully mischaracterizing it.
nohwheregirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2007, 11:38 AM   #27
mozartpc27
Vigilante Logician
Forum Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 09, 2006
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 823
Default

With respect to the medical examiner's ruling, the UM segment said it was "undetermined," if I remember correctly. Does that ruling rule anything out? I assume she was not shot, because a bullet likely would have been found, but I'm not sure what else can be definitively ruled out by "undetermined" causes.

Moreover, the fact that the body was described wildly innacurately in the autopsy report leads me to question if it was Crystal Spencer's body that that particular autopsy report refers to at all. I know they say her remains were independently identified by two different finger print labs, but all that proves in my mind is that the Los Angeles coroner indeed had Crystal Spencer's body in their possession. It does not prove that the body that was autopsied under the name of Crystal Spencer was in fact her. Stranger things have happened then one corpse being mistaken for another in a coroner's office as large and as busy as the one in Los Angeles. All that would have to happen would be for two sets of finger print IDs to be accidentally switched --- one that goes with Crystal Spencer was given to another body (the one autopsied under her name), and the one belonging to someone esle stuck with Crystal Spencer. In other words, I'm not entirely sure how much credence can be lent to the autopsy report at all --- we cannot even be 100% sure if the report that was made corresponds to the body of Crystal Spencer!

The strongest evidence for murder is the "earwitness" testimony of the couple who both say they heard terrible, blood-curdling shrieks coming from the direction of Crystal's apartment the night she died. They could, of course, be lying, but they don't seem to have much of a motive to be doing so --- and the woman seemed pretty genuine in the segment when she said she would regret not calling the police for the rest of her life. Assuming they were telling the truth, I think it's too much of a coincidence that such screams would be heard one night and one night only and that a woman would have died in that apartment complex on the same night.

The second piece of evidence I find quite compelling is the position and state of undress of the body. I asked this before, but I will ask it again: why would this woman get half undressed, end up on the floor, and die --- of "natural causes" --- at this spot? I can think of some things that might have happened to her that would have resulted in the body being found as it was --- a sudden heart attack, a stroke --- but I doubt they would have been accompanied by the kind of loud, consistent screaming heard that night. The only way I can see to put the two together is some kind of torture/murder scenario.

One possibility does remain here: perhaps someone followed her home or she invited someone up for a one-nighter, and that person played rougher than she was anticipating. This would explain the screams. Perhaps what the person was doing to her was upsetting enough, and her reaction violent enough, that cardiac arrest was induced in her. So, this person did not kill her intentionally (or perhaps had the intent to kill her, but she died before that could happen), and he just took off before anyone found out he was there, for fear of being charged with a crime, even though he hadn't actually done anything to kill her per se.

It's unfortunate that her body was cremated; perhaps another autopsy could have been more enlightening about 1)whether the body ultimately tagged as Crystal Spencer was, in fact, hers, and 2)what her cause of death actually was.
mozartpc27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2007, 12:27 PM   #28
Thiussat
Member
Forum Regular
 
Thiussat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 09, 2007
Posts: 579
Default

Quote:
One possibility does remain here: perhaps someone followed her home or she invited someone up for a one-nighter, and that person played rougher than she was anticipating. This would explain the screams. Perhaps what the person was doing to her was upsetting enough, and her reaction violent enough, that cardiac arrest was induced in her. So, this person did not kill her intentionally (or perhaps had the intent to kill her, but she died before that could happen), and he just took off before anyone found out he was there, for fear of being charged with a crime, even though he hadn't actually done anything to kill her per se.

It's unfortunate that her body was cremated; perhaps another autopsy could have been more enlightening about 1)whether the body ultimately tagged as Crystal Spencer was, in fact, hers, and 2)what her cause of death actually was.
This is the most logical and plausible argument I have seen by the adherents of the theory that Crystal was murdered. Being a stripper, it is possible that she had some sort of "affair" with a "client" that ended up in an accidental death due to S&M practice. This type of thing is not unheard of. It is possible she was hooking on the side for extra cash (some strippers do this).

Now, as to how I would explain her bodily position, I would say that it is possible that she was in a panic due to a medical emergency (who knows what) and was also hyperthermic, so she began taking off clothes. Often times, certain drugs can make you feel extremely warm. Her being partially unclothed would not necessarily have to mean that someone was there with her. Hell, I run around my house partially unclothed when I am alone.
Thiussat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2007, 01:29 PM   #29
mozartpc27
Vigilante Logician
Forum Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 09, 2006
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 823
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thiussat
This is the most logical and plausible argument I have seen by the adherents of the theory that Crystal was murdered. Being a stripper, it is possible that she had some sort of "affair" with a "client" that ended up in an accidental death due to S&M practice. This type of thing is not unheard of. It is possible she was hooking on the side for extra cash (some strippers do this).

Now, as to how I would explain her bodily position, I would say that it is possible that she was in a panic due to a medical emergency (who knows what) and was also hyperthermic, so she began taking off clothes. Often times, certain drugs can make you feel extremely warm. Her being partially unclothed would not necessarily have to mean that someone was there with her. Hell, I run around my house partially unclothed when I am alone.
No, the nudity itself proves nothing in particular, I agree, but it's the combination of circumstances: the half naked body, the choking followed by screaming that lasted for several minutes, and the position of the body that are all suggestive in my mind of a death brought on by something other than "natural causes." A drug overdose is a possibility, particularly if one throws out the ME report as likely an autopsy of another person; if that autopsy is indeed of Crystal Spencer, no drugs were found, so a drug overdoes becomes profoundly less likely (there could have been something in her system for which they didn't test, which doesn't do anything more to increase my faith in this particular autopsy).

However, I don't know that even an accidental overdose would have led to the kind of screaming described by the two witnesses, who are very credible in my opinion. When I think of an overdose, I think of someone who becomes quickly incapacitated --- not someone with the kind of energy required to produce the kind of screams described by the witnesses for the length of time they were apparently going on. I still think someone else was with her, doing things to her that she did not want done; I think an intentional murder is likely in that scenario, though, as I suggested, it is also quite conceivable that she was literally "scared to death." Perhaps prior drug abuse had weakened her heart?
mozartpc27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2007, 02:56 PM   #30
LooksLikeCRicci
Likes to live in a clean house
Moderator
Senior Member
 
LooksLikeCRicci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 27, 2005
Posts: 3,773
Send a message via AIM to LooksLikeCRicci Send a message via Yahoo to LooksLikeCRicci
Default

Interesting theory, nonetheless! Thanks for posting that!
LooksLikeCRicci is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:20 AM.


Frequently Asked Questions

1) How do I contact Unsolved Mysteries with information on segments?

If you any information on cases, you can contact them via:

Website: www.unsolved.com

Contact form on official Unsolved Mysteries site

Please note that their old mailing address and 1-800 phone number no longer work.


2) Where can I watch Unsolved Mysteries?

Unsolved Mysteries is available for streaming on Amazon Instant Video, YouTube and Hulu.


Although the administrators and moderators of the Sitcoms Online Message Boards will attempt to keep all objectionable messages off this forum, it is impossible for us to review all messages. All messages express the views of the author, and neither the owners of the Sitcoms Online Message Boards, nor vBulletin Solutions Inc. (developers of vBulletin) will be held responsible for the content of any message. The owners of the Sitcoms Online Message Boards reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.