View Full Version : What I don't understand about the Stanley Gryziec case....


hostedbyrobertstack
06-23-2011, 11:37 PM
I have watched this segment numerous times over the years. The thing that I find odd, is that they still haven't cracked this case. Reason being, if Patsy Peck, the bookstore owner, had spoken to these 2 men in her bookstore and they were obviously acquainted with her husband, how does he/she not know the names of these two individuals??? This is the part that does not make sense. Any thoughts?

DarkDante
06-23-2011, 11:54 PM
I was going to post something similar and just kept putting it off. This case baffles me on a number of levels.

First there seems to be evidence of either shoddy police work or a police cover up in how they handled the crime scene. The insistence on the part of the police that Gryziec was stabbed to death when no stab wounds were found on his body to me is extremely interesting.

The next point of contention is the fact that the suspects in this case are believed to have been known to the police and were still alive at the time of the UM airing (1990) and they apparently knew where this individual could be located but were wary about providing any more details regarding this individual for reasons they did not disclose to the public. In addition the UM broadcast brought in over 300 tips in regards to the Gryziec case.

I've been trying to figure out exactly what the connection is with the bar and Gryziec's murder. The UM segment alleged potential narcotics trafficking that may have taken place in the bar which resulted in the bar's liquor license being revoked. I've been trying like mad to find out the name of the bar that Gryziec's brother owned with no success. I think finding the name of the bar might be a good jumping off point to finding out more information on this case.

DarkDante
06-24-2011, 12:03 AM
The following was posted by "The Third Man" a few years ago:

Post Standard (Syracuse) January 6, 1991

A Central New York man is suspected of committing a 14-year-old murder featured on the NBC television series "Unsolved Mysteries" three months ago.

William Kernan, an assistant district attorney in Oneida County, declined to name the male suspect. The man is living in the Syracuse-Utica area and might not know he is suspected of the Nov. 6, 1976 fatal shooting of Stanley Gryziec in his South Street home in Rome, Kernan said.

"He hasn't hired a lawyer," Kernan said. "On some days I say, 'You know we could still possibly get an indictment.' On other days you think, 'No. We're never going to get an indictment because so many of the prime witnesses are deceased or have moved away."'

Oneida County Sheriff's Investigator Robert Saunders and Rome city police Investigator John Keys have received about 320 telephone calls from people who saw the "Unsolved Mysteries" episode Oct. 10 and claim to have information about Gryziec, who was 59 when he died.

"FIFTY PERCENT of what came in was advantageous," Saunders said. "A lot of it was repetitious. . . . We still get about two calls a week."

The death of Gryziec -- owner of a liquor store and manager of a car dealership -- initially was believed to be a robbery gone awry. The case was reopened in 1987 after new evidence surfaced during an unrelated arson investigation. Saunders said he now believes Gryziec might have been the innocent victim of a local crime ring.

He said the murderer might have killed the wrong man or went after Gryziec to keep him from revealing information about illegal activities. Gryziec was killed by two men in ski masks who burst into his home late at night, handcuffed his wife, choked her until she fell unconscious and shot him in the chest. His wife, Esther Gryziec, died of natural causes 23 months later.

SEVERAL PEOPLE have asked the investigators to test fire their .25-caliber automatic handguns -- the same caliber as the gun that killed Gryziec, Saunders said. The gun owners are worried that the murder could be pinned on them because they own similar guns, he said.

Saunders and Keys are still looking for Charles Bucrzinski, a potential witness who jumped bail in 1977 when he was being tried in Oneida County on drug-related charges, Saunders said. A composite sketch of Bucrzinski was aired during the 18-minute "Unsolved Mysteries" segment called "The Man who Knew too Much."

"WE HAVEN'T gotten anything new on him. We are really very interested in talking to him," Saunders said.

Saunders and Keys have been assigned to the case full-time and are working out of the Oneida County District Attorney's Office. The pair is expected to complete the investigation in February. Saunders, Keys and Kernan will then review the evidence and decide whether they have enough to charge the suspect, Kernan said.

Post-Standard (Syracuse) October 12, 1990

The morning after the television show "Unsolved Mysteries" focused on a murder here 14 years ago, police revealed that they might have their man.

"We think we know who did it, but we're not at liberty to talk about his whereabouts," Police Chief Edward Cretaro said Thursday. "That was the whole purpose of the show, to get more information, to button it up."

The 18-minute segment of the hour-long show featured a re-enactment of the murder of Stanley Gryziec. The program generated about 150 telephone calls nationwide from people offering information on the crime, Cretaro said.

Cretaro said his department has a suspect, but not enough evidence to convict that person of a crime.

"We have enough to indict, but probably not enough to convict," Cretaro said. "We don't want to indict without a conviction."

Gryziec was 59 when he was shot and killed Nov. 6, 1976, in his home in south Rome. His wife, Esther, was tied up in the kitchen while two men ransacked the house. She died of natural causes two years later.

Victoria81
01-13-2014, 11:03 AM
Watching this now!

MegtheEgg86
01-14-2014, 01:32 AM
This segment has always scared me. From everything I've ever read about Stanley Gryziec in newspaper archives, he seemed like a gracious, honest, hardworking man. I remember one of his daughters saying something to the effect of "his being honest was the cause of his death"--the implication being that he was about to shine a lot of light on some illegal activities allegedly going on at that bar Peter Gryziec owned and operated.

I don't know what to think. The fact that they were so interested in talking to Chuck Brucrzinski, a former bar employee who also just so happened to skip bail on a drug charge, might be a little telling. The Rome Police Department's (by all accounts) less-than-stellar 1976 investigation is very troubling.

Ultimately, I think a LOT more information on Peter Gryziec would be most helpful. As would the uncut version of Patsy Peck's UM interview--or shoot, anything to explain the relationship she and her husband had with those two men.

TheCars1986
01-14-2014, 08:41 AM
Ultimately, I think a LOT more information on Peter Gryziec would be most helpful. As would the uncut version of Patsy Peck's UM interview--or shoot, anything to explain the relationship she and her husband had with those two men.

I agree. The answers lie with Peter. I believe Stanley was killed to be silenced on what he knew about what was going on at the bar.

DarkDante
01-14-2014, 10:25 AM
I agree. The answers lie with Peter. I believe Stanley was killed to be silenced on what he knew about what was going on at the bar.

I'm still trying to get an exact location of where that bar is or more than likely was. I'd be interested to know if it's near where Gryziec lived or in a seedier area of town?

TheCars1986
01-14-2014, 08:54 PM
I'm still trying to get an exact location of where that bar is or more than likely was. I'd be interested to know if it's near where Gryziec lived or in a seedier area of town?

I may be remembering incorrectly, but I believe there is a main Stanley Gryziec thread where someone found the location of Gryziec's home, the gas station, and the bar. I definitely remember seeing a picture of the home/gas station because whoever owns it now converted the gas station (but the structure is still the same).

MegtheEgg86
01-14-2014, 09:32 PM
I may be remembering incorrectly, but I believe there is a main Stanley Gryziec thread where someone found the location of Gryziec's home, the gas station, and the bar. I definitely remember seeing a picture of the home/gas station because whoever owns it now converted the gas station (but the structure is still the same).

Just the house and the garage. I don't think anyone here has found the bar yet because none of us have unearthed an address for it so far. Post #13:

www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=279342

dynoguy88
01-14-2014, 10:33 PM
Just the house and the garage. I don't think anyone here has found the bar yet because none of us have unearthed an address for it so far. Post #13:

www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=279342

The address of the house is 608 S. James Street in Rome New York. The gas station next door is on the corner of S. James and S. Street for those that would like to check out the area on Google maps.

WishfulDreamer
01-19-2014, 01:43 AM
I also find this case really unsettling. The obvious coverup (not finding the shell of the gun, calling it a stab wound) and rift between Stanley and Peter make it all the more creepy. Two brothers who had always been close not speaking again even though Peter was deathly ill? I think the theory that shady stuff was going on at his bar makes total sense here. I think Stanley was killed to keep him quiet over it. :(

Mystery Man
01-19-2014, 07:17 PM
Yeah, this case was really sad. He seemed like a great guy. :(

I had no idea they actually had suspects, though. That's good to know. I have a hankering they were probably responsible.

TheCars1986
01-20-2014, 11:29 AM
Seems to me like there should be enough evidence to warrant an arrest. You have the drug dealer eyewitness who said someone approached him to burglarize the Gryziec home, the neighbor to the Gryziec's who saw two men getting into a white car, the neighbor also claimed that she was followed by the same men she saw near Gryziec's home, another witness at a bar witnessed a guy who saw a man he knew had two strange men (who matched the composite sketches) money and then the men left the bar, and then you have the bookstore lady who's husband knew both men. With the exception of the drug dealer (whose credibility would be questioned at a trial), there's still 3-4 other witnesses who could identify these men as the murderers of Stanley.

DarkDante
11-02-2014, 11:20 PM
Here is a quick and somewhat random/bizarre update on the Gryziec case:

There is a Rome, NY forum hosted by the Topix community where community members have been discussing an unrelated crime that occurred in the area.

Around halfway through the thread a forum user brought up the Gryziec case and basically summarized the case stating the following:

On November 6, 1976 Stanley Gryziec was shot and killed in his home on South James Street in Rome, NY. His wife, Esther, was tied up during the murder She died about two years later. This is another "unsolved" murder in the City of Rome. Most older Roman's know who did this, maybe not the actual shooter but who was behind it. Actually it was an attempt to collect gambling debt's incurred by Stanly's brother but that's another story. Point is, people know who was behind the murder but no one was ever arrested. Moot point now since the person who put the wheels in motion that ended up with this killing is now dead himself, old age.
Same sort of business as the (I've withheld the names of the victims in the unrelated crimes) killings but different crime groups. One group was involved in illegal gambling, the other in illegal drugs. Both groups ran their illegal businesses more or less under the noses of the cops before and after the killings with little interference. Their customers also must have known who was responsible but chose not to cooperate with the police either because they were afraid or more likely, because they wanted to continue buying drugs or gambling.

Shortly after posting this message, the OP met some resistance from other forum members who called into question what he had posted. He responded by posting the following information:

Everything posted is truth?? I am pretty sure (I've withheld the name of the individual the OP named as a suspect) did the Grysiec murder, his car was seen parked outside - again, maybe not pulling the trigger but right there at the scene. Why he wasn't arrested? Who knows?? His brother was scared ****less and never gave up the info he had which would have led to possibly an arrest.
I may be nuts but not crazy - and the matters are known by first hand knowledge of some of the facts and reading up on the rest. What part of the original statement/post do you think is street myth? what part an outright lie? Stanley Gryseic did nothing to get shot over, the thugs thought they could scare him into paying off his brother's debt - Period.

Here is a link to the Topix forum for those who want more information:
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/rome-ny/TQJOC08AKAKPV84LF/p4

dynoguy88
11-03-2014, 10:28 AM
Assuming that guy is right, the story makes sense. I wish we could have found out more about Stanley's brother. You would think Stanley's three kids (all of whom were interviewed in the segment) would have demanded their uncle tell them everything he knew.

Reading that old article at the top of the thread, I was surprised to find out Stanley was only 59 when he was murdered. I always assumed he was much older.

DarkDante
11-03-2014, 02:32 PM
Assuming that guy is right, the story makes sense. I wish we could have found out more about Stanley's brother. You would think Stanley's three kids (all of whom were interviewed in the segment) would have demanded their uncle tell them everything he knew.

Reading that old article at the top of the thread, I was surprised to find out Stanley was only 59 when he was murdered. I always assumed he was much older.

One thing that I think the OP was incorrect about was the notion that Peter Gryziec (Stanley's brother) was alive at the time that Stanley was murdered. If you recall the segment, Peter Gryziec actually predeceased his brother and they reenacted a scene where allegedly Peter Gryziec confessed to Stanley about illegal activities going on in the bar. It was mentioned that the two brothers never spoke again after this conversation.

So the long and the short of it is Peter Gryziec would not have figured into the investigation of his brother's murder other than the allegations that were made by the OP that it was Peter Gryziec's activities that may have eventually gotten his brother killed.

dynoguy88
11-04-2014, 12:14 AM
I'm such an idiot. I forgot that he died beforehand. I should probably go back and watch that segment again.

DarkDante
11-04-2014, 06:57 AM
I'm such an idiot. I forgot that he died beforehand. I should probably go back and watch that segment again.

Some further thoughts: Don't feel bad. It's hard to keep everything straight when you have hundreds of cases to recall.

Anyhow as it pertains to Gryziec, I think I've pretty much got an idea about what went down that night that Stanley Gryziec was murdered in terms of both motive and really a botched execution. It's really not breaking any new ground but in tying together the loose ends from the segment and various articles I've read on the case here is what I came up with:

Stanley's brother was involved in an illegal gambling ring with some pretty heavy hitters, the type of guys you don't want to end up owing money to (especially large sums of money to). The OP on the Rome, NY forum alleged that this was an organized crime family which may be true but to what extent I'm not sure. Stanley's brother died before being able to pay his debt to these heavy hitters and a marker was put out to collect the money that Stanley's brother owed from the Gryziec family.

Now subjectively speaking I don't believe that there was ever a hit put out on either Stanley or Esther Gryziec's life by the people who were owed money by Stanley's late brother. The common theme that keeps coming up in all of the newspaper clippings and the UM segment is that the people who broke into Stanley Gryziec's house that evening were after the money plain and simple. If you watch the recreation of the conversation on UM between the drug dealer who turned down the opportunity to rob the Gryziecs and the man who allegedly ordered it, you'll notice that the conversation centered around robbery and the idea that the individual who ordered the robbery believed that the Gryziecs kept a lot of cash in the house. I don't believe that Stanley Gryziec was killed because the gambling ring wanted to keep him quiet or anything of that nature because I personally don't believe they were even aware that Stanley Gryziec was aware of his brother's activities. It's not necessarily something that you would brag to your family members about being involved in anyway. I do however, believe that Stanley Gryziec's brother did confess his involvement in this gambling ring to his brother on his death bed and that is the reason why the two brothers subsequently never spoke to one another again.

I believe the Gryziec children are pretty much spot on in terms of what they believe happened to their parents the night of the robbery. The robbers broke into the house and Stanley Gryziec confronted them leading to a struggle in which Stanley was shot and killed. The robbers spent the next several hours rifling through the house looking for the phantom large amounts of cash that they were told would be there only not to come away with a red cent. Essentially in my opinion this was a botched robbery, with the robbers walking away with nothing other than a murder rap.

I firmly believe that the robbery attempt on Stanley and Esther Gryziec and the subsequent murder of Stanley Gryziec was nothing other than a robbery attempt gone wrong with the motive being a) trying to collect a debt owed to the gambling ring by Stanley's brother and b) working off the inaccurate information that the Gryziecs kept a large sums of cash lying around the house.

One final note and that is throughout the segment there seems to be some insinuation of a botched investigation or cover-up by the authorities who investigated the case back in 1976. I'm not so sure. Shortly after the UM aired, the original investigators on the case cried foul, stating that a lot of the information that UM presented as being newly unearthed was in fact fruits of their original investigations back in 1976. Indeed, news articles from that period of time show that the investigators had both identified and were in search of the vehicle seen parked outside the Gryziec residence the night of the robbery/murder. So personally, I'm not sure that blaming the authorities in this case is necessarily appropriate.

TheCars1986
11-05-2014, 04:17 PM
I haven't seen the segment in so long, but that scenario that DarkDante posted seems very likely to me. That would also account for why they didn't murder Stanley's wife. They were there for money that was never there.

Huskerz85
02-16-2017, 02:13 PM
I just watched this segment again today after a long while - incredibly sad. I have to say though, the information unearthed here is quite fascinating and I'm in concurrence with DarkDante's theory about how it went down.

One minor quibble I have though - why would UM make it look as if the police borked things up? I was about to say something on that when I read the last sentence in DD's post........

MegtheEgg86
04-04-2017, 12:56 PM
One thing I always found to be very strange about this segment is that Patsy Peck talks about the two men who visited her bookstore (who are also suspects in Gryziec's murder) with some degree of familiarity, and the reenactment sort of implies as much (I think Peck even hugged one of the men). However, UM also seems to present the relationship as unfamiliar, referring to them somewhat unceremoniously as "men visiting the bookstore".

I've always wanted to know the nature of that relationship, and without having a single additional piece of information to go on, I assume that Peck and/or her husband considered the men friends or close acquaintances. Meaning that almost certainly, she had names. It's revealed in the segment that Peck spoke with original investigators, so I suppose it's reasonable to assume she provided those names at that time.

To address DD's much earlier post, I wonder if this wasn't largely a case of a poor hand-off from one team of investigators to another.

TheCars1986
04-04-2017, 01:47 PM
One thing I always found to be very strange about this segment is that Patsy Peck talks about the two men who visited her bookstore (who are also suspects in Gryziec's murder) with some degree of familiarity, and the reenactment sort of implies as much (I think Peck even hugged one of the men). However, UM also seems to present the relationship as unfamiliar, referring to them somewhat unceremoniously as "men visiting the bookstore".

I've always wanted to know the nature of that relationship, and without having a single additional piece of information to go on, I assume that Peck and/or her husband considered the men friends or close acquaintances. Meaning that almost certainly, she had names. It's revealed in the segment that Peck spoke with original investigators, so I suppose it's reasonable to assume she provided those names at that time.

To address DD's much earlier post, I wonder if this wasn't largely a case of a poor hand-off from one team of investigators to another.

I think it's possible that LE knew who these people were, and knew their names, but didn't have enough evidence to implicate them outright on national television. That was my first impression after viewing the segment again on Prime. That wouldn't explain the police sketches they used, though.

Latka Gravas
10-06-2020, 12:10 PM
Recently saw this SG segment. Especially sad case, given that I don't believe SG, his wife, kids, etc. were involved in anything shady - but that his death (by the criminals who broke in) was probably a robbery gone wrong.

I also suspect the authorities knew more than they were telling about the case, and that it was possibly intentionally botched from day 1.

One thing I always found to be very strange about this segment is that Patsy Peck talks about the two men who visited her bookstore (who are also suspects in Gryziec's murder) with some degree of familiarity, and the reenactment sort of implies as much (I think Peck even hugged one of the men). However, UM also seems to present the relationship as unfamiliar, referring to them somewhat unceremoniously as "men visiting the bookstore".

Agreed. I think PP and her husband knew who these two were, and almost definitely knew their names. The fact that there was no follow-up (or none mentioned, at least) is suspect.

mphs95
10-17-2020, 03:59 PM
I'm still trying to get an exact location of where that bar is or more than likely was. I'd be interested to know if it's near where Gryziec lived or in a seedier area of town?

When hubby and myself went on our honeymoon in 2013, we drove through Rome, NY and found the Gryziec's home. The neighborhood was a older one, so not run down, but not fancy either.

**Sorry for being so large that you have to scroll right. I couldn't get it any smaller.**

Huskerz85
10-28-2021, 09:51 AM
That the authorities may not have had/do not have enough evidence to convict makes sense - that part I totally get. If the suspects were known to them and/or Patsy though, why not at least bring them in for questioning and go from there? They could've done that and then still gone on UM with no issue.

If they didn't want to start digging into the shooters, they could've also tried to dig into Peter's background. I know someone earlier in the thread mentioned he wouldn't have figured into the case at all, but if the authorities understood that this was a case of mistaken identity, then connecting the dots between Peter, the bar and the shady goings-on would've eventually led to the guy who ordered the hit (and is now dead according to something someone else posted)