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Old 03-11-2004, 03:19 PM   #46
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Back on topic, I have to agree with Dr. Thong. I think that this was a show that shouldn't have ended with "unfinished business." A great series finale with the cast from over the years (like Happy Days' finale) would have been a great finish to an otherwise mediocre final season.
The Happy Days finale was missing Anson Williams (Potsie) and Donny Most (Ralph). On the other hand, they had Ron Howard and if he'd been missing from the finale, it would have been far more noticeable.

Thanks for concurring with me, Brian - the same thing happened ("unfinished business") with Archie Bunker's Place the same year! To this day, Danielle Brisbois (Stephanie) complains that they pulled the rug out from under them and disrespected a beloved character who'd entertained audiences for 12 years. The late Carroll O' Connor deserved better than that...
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Old 03-11-2004, 03:20 PM   #47
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Every time I see one of those late eighth season episodes with only Penny Marshall and David L. Lander credited in the opening, I reach for the remote. They should have renamed those episodes "Laverne & Squiggy".
Yes!

LOL!
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Old 03-11-2004, 07:47 PM   #48
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Thanks for concurring with me, Brian - the same thing happened ("unfinished business") with Archie Bunker's Place the same year! To this day, Danielle Brisbois (Stephanie) complains that they pulled the rug out from under them and disrespected a beloved character who'd entertained audiences for 12 years. The late Carroll O' Connor deserved better than that...
Unfortuately, that's the risk you run when you run a series into the ground, such as what happened with "L&S" and "Archie Bunker's Place". CBS actually gave Carroll the option of saying that he was ending the series, but he refused, because he didn't want to be the one responsible for putting people out of work. It would have been nice if the producers of both of these shows recognized during their final seasons that the ratings were really falling and it was time to wrap things up. But they held out hope for another year, and lost their chance to do a series finale that brought some closure.
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Old 03-12-2004, 12:38 AM   #49
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Unfortuately, that's the risk you run when you run a series into the ground, such as what happened with "L&S" and "Archie Bunker's Place". CBS actually gave Carroll the option of saying that he was ending the series, but he refused, because he didn't want to be the one responsible for putting people out of work. It would have been nice if the producers of both of these shows recognized during their final seasons that the ratings were really falling and it was time to wrap things up. But they held out hope for another year, and lost their chance to do a series finale that brought some closure.

Surprisingly L&S finished #20 in it's last season.
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Old 03-12-2004, 01:14 AM   #50
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Surprisingly L&S finished #20 in it's last season.
No, it was 25th, and the ratings were much lower at the end of the season than at the beginning. The A-Team came on in the middle of the year and was clobbering it. The final episodes weren't even in the top 30 and everyone knew it was the end.

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Old 03-12-2004, 10:29 AM   #51
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No, it was 25th, and the ratings were much lower at the end of the season than at the beginning. The A-Team came on in the middle of the year and was clobbering it. The final episodes weren't even in the top 30 and everyone knew it was the end.


i just know the show lost something when the setting switched to california. I couldn;t put my finger on it but it lost something.
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Old 03-12-2004, 03:09 PM   #52
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Unfortuately, that's the risk you run when you run a series into the ground, such as what happened with "L&S" and "Archie Bunker's Place". CBS actually gave Carroll the option of saying that he was ending the series, but he refused, because he didn't want to be the one responsible for putting people out of work. It would have been nice if the producers of both of these shows recognized during their final seasons that the ratings were really falling and it was time to wrap things up. But they held out hope for another year, and lost their chance to do a series finale that brought some closure.
True. However, Archie Bunker's Place finished ahead of other shows like The Dukes Of Hazzard, which had significantly lower ratings, yet was renewed for the following season. It has been implied that one of the Warner Bros. execs had a connection with one of the programming chiefs at CBS or had himself been a one-time programming person at CBS.

Makes you wonder..

At any rate, they should have retired Archie and Edith when Mike and Gloria moved to California and let that be the end of the series.

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Old 03-12-2004, 04:33 PM   #53
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I've heard that about the CBS programming chief (I think it was Robert Daly) at that time. But you'll always find some cancelled shows that rank higher than rewnewed shows. It's about more than just simple rankings -- it's about context.

A network might consider a top-25 show on Friday night, when audience levels are low, to be a hit. But a top-25 show that follows a top-5 show on Thursday night will be a candidate for cancellation, because it's losing too much of its lead-in (look at all those cancelled shows that followed "Friends"). Momentum is taken into account as well: a show that has moved up from number 40 to number 30 will probably get renewed, while a show that has dropped from number 20 to number 30 may get cancelled, especially if it is an older, more expensive show that is past its peak creatively. Network programmers look at more than just rankings when making these decisions.

In the case of "The Dukes of Hazzard", the 1982-83 season was the one where the two leads were replaced temporarily due to a contract dispute. The original leads returned at the end of the season and the ratings spiked. But the final ranking for the season was lower than the previous year due to the absence of the two stars for most of the year. CBS took this into account when making its decision to renew the show.

"Archie," meanwhile, was moved off of Sunday night in mid-season because it was losing too much audience from its lead-in, "60 Minutes", which was the number 1 show at the time. When "Archie" moved to Mondays, its ratings fell even further. CBS saw it as an aging, expensive, creatively-spent show and felt that it had no place to go but down. Frankly, I think Carroll O'Connor should have seen it coming and made the call himself, so there could have been a series finale, but that's just my opinion.

I agree with you that the show should have ended with "The Stivics Move West", which would have ranked as one of the best series finales ever, IMHO.
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Old 03-13-2004, 01:46 PM   #54
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"Archie," meanwhile, was moved off of Sunday night in mid-season because it was losing too much audience from its lead-in, "60 Minutes", which was the number 1 show at the time. When "Archie" moved to Mondays, its ratings fell even further. CBS saw it as an aging, expensive, creatively-spent show and felt that it had no place to go but down. Frankly, I think Carroll O'Connor should have seen it coming and made the call himself, so there could have been a series finale, but that's just my opinion.

I agree with you that the show should have ended with "The Stivics Move West", which would have ranked as one of the best series finales ever, IMHO.
TV Guy,

You make some excellent points here. For me, Archie's Place began its decline when Martin Balsam left. Once Murray was gone, Archie had no one to spar with and became soft.

The show was basically done and things happen for a reason, but O' Connor probably didn't want to admit it was over. Oh well, we still have the classic All In The Family reruns and in those, Archie will always remain in his prime.
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Old 04-22-2004, 01:55 PM   #55
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The show wasn't the same when Shirley, Lenny & Edna left. Yes, Cindy left 'cause she was going 2 have a baby, the priducers wanted 2 give her more money, but she left the show & sued them so million dollars. Betty left 'cause she was going 2 do another play. Michael left for 6 eps 2 do "Spinal Tap". That's my final answer!

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