Sitcoms Online - Main Page / Message Boards - Main Page / News Blog / Photo Galleries / DVD Reviews / Buy TV Shows on DVD and Blu-ray

View Today's Active Threads / View New Posts / Mark All Boards Read / Chit Chat Board

Games / Movies / Music / Sports / Random Posts / Politics


Sitcoms Online Message Boards - Forums  

Go Back   Sitcoms Online Message Boards - Forums > Chit Chat
User Name
Password


Welcome to the Sitcoms Online Message Boards - Forums.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, search, view attachments, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

SitcomsOnline.com News Blog Headlines Twitter Facebook Instagram RSS

Sitcom Stars on Talk Shows; This Week in Sitcoms (Week of October 23, 2017)
SitcomsOnline Digest: Another Attempt at a Magnum P.I. Reboot?; New Warner Archive Releases for November
Fri-Yay: How Are This Season's Sitcoms Doing?; COZI TV's 3rd Annual Munster-thon
Freeform Announces Comedy Block for Wednesdays; The Simpsons Documentary Airs on Fox Sunday
COZI TV to Air Mary Tyler Moore, Dick Van Dyke Specials; Roseanne Revival Gets Underway for ABC
Wyatt Cenac Heads to HBO Comedy Series; Nat Geo Acquires Running Wild with Bear Grylls
New Comedy for Sundance Now Service from Peep Show Stars; Showtime's SMILF Gets Set for Premiere


New on DVD/Blu-ray (October)

2 Broke Girls - The Complete Series The Good Place - The Complete First Season Green Acres - The Complete Series Rhoda - The Final (Fifth) Season The Jamie Foxx Show - The Complete Fourth Season

10/03 - 2 Broke Girls - The Complete Sixth Season
10/03 - 2 Broke Girls - The Complete Series
10/03 - Rules of Engagement - Seasons 1-4 Collection
10/10 - The Brady Bunch - A Very Brady Christmas
10/10 - Everybody Hates Chris - The Complete Series
10/10 - Frasier - Christmas Episodes
10/10 - The Honeymooners - Christmas Laughter
10/10 - Sabrina, the Teenage Witch - The Christmas Episodes
10/17 - The Good Place - The Complete First Season
10/17 - Green Acres - The Complete Series
10/17 - Rhoda - The Final (Fifth) Season
10/24 - The Jamie Foxx Show - The Complete Fourth Season
More TV DVD Releases / DVD Reviews Archive / SitcomsOnline Digest


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-14-2009, 09:36 PM   #1
*Pleasant Tomorrow*
Forum Legend
Member
 
*Pleasant Tomorrow*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 19, 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 69,155
Default 10 years later, the real story behind Columbine

10 years later, the real story behind Columbine

By Greg Toppo, USA TODAY

They weren't goths or loners.

The two teenagers who killed 13 people and themselves at suburban Denver's Columbine High School 10 years ago next week weren't in the "Trenchcoat Mafia," disaffected videogamers who wore cowboy dusters. The killings ignited a national debate over bullying, but the record now shows Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold hadn't been bullied in fact, they had bragged in diaries about picking on freshmen and "****."

Their rampage put schools on alert for "enemies lists" made by troubled students, but the enemies on their list had graduated from Columbine a year earlier. Contrary to early reports, Harris and Klebold weren't on antidepressant medication and didn't target jocks, blacks or Christians, police now say, citing the killers' journals and witness accounts. That story about a student being shot in the head after she said she believed in God? Never happened, the FBI says now.

A decade after Harris and Klebold made Columbine a synonym for rage, new information including several books that analyze the tragedy through diaries, e-mails, appointment books, videotape, police affidavits and interviews with witnesses, friends and survivors indicate that much of what the public has been told about the shootings is wrong.

In fact, the pair's suicidal attack was planned as a grand if badly implemented terrorist bombing that quickly devolved into a 49-minute shooting rampage when the bombs Harris built fizzled.

"He was so bad at wiring those bombs, apparently they weren't even close to working," says Dave Cullen, author of Columbine, a new account of the attack.

So whom did they hope to kill?

Everyone including friends.

What's left, after peeling away a decade of myths, is perhaps more comforting than the "good kids harassed into retaliation" narrative or perhaps not.

It's a portrait of Harris and Klebold as a sort of In Cold Blood criminal duo a deeply disturbed, suicidal pair who over more than a year psyched each other up for an Oklahoma City-style terrorist bombing, an apolitical, over-the-top revenge fantasy against years of snubs, slights and cruelties, real and imagined.

Along the way, they saved money from after-school jobs, took Advanced Placement classes, assembled a small arsenal and fooled everyone friends, parents, teachers, psychologists, cops and judges.

"These are not ordinary kids who were bullied into retaliation," psychologist Peter Langman writes in his new book, Why Kids Kill: Inside the Minds of School Shooters. "These are not ordinary kids who played too many video games. These are not ordinary kids who just wanted to be famous. These are simply not ordinary kids. These are kids with serious psychological problems."

Deceiving the adults

Harris, who conceived the attacks, was more than just troubled. He was, psychologists now say, a cold-blooded, predatory psychopath a smart, charming liar with "a preposterously grand superiority complex, a revulsion for authority and an excruciating need for control," Cullen writes.

Harris, a senior, read voraciously and got good grades when he tried, pleasing his teachers with dazzling prose then writing in his journal about killing thousands.

"I referred to him and I'm dating myself as the Eddie Haskel of Columbine High School," says Principal Frank DeAngelis, referring to the deceptively polite teen on the 1950s and '60s sitcom Leave it to Beaver. "He was the type of kid who, when he was in front of adults, he'd tell you what you wanted to hear."

When he wasn't, he mixed napalm in the kitchen .

According to Cullen, one of Harris' last journal entries read: "I hate you people for leaving me out of so many fun things. And no don't say, 'Well that's your fault,' because it isn't, you people had my phone #, and I asked and all, but no. No no no don't let the weird-looking Eric KID come along."

As he walked into the school the morning of April 20, Harris' T-shirt read: Natural Selection.

Klebold, on the other hand, was anxious and lovelorn, summing up his life at one point in his journal as "the most miserable existence in the history of time," Langman notes.

Harris drew swastikas in his journal; Klebold drew hearts.

As laid out in their writings, the contrast between the two was stark.

Harris seemed to feel superior to everyone he once wrote, "I feel like God and I wish I was, having everyone being OFFICIALLY lower than me" while Klebold was suicidally depressed and getting angrier all the time. "Me is a god, a god of sadness," he wrote in September 1997, around his 16th birthday.

Klebold also was paranoid. "I have always been hated, by everyone and everything," he wrote.

On the day of the attacks, his T-shirt read: Wrath.

Shooter profiles emerge

Columbine wasn't the first K-12 school shooting. But at the time it was by far the worst, and the first to play out largely on live television.

The U.S. Secret Service and U.S. Education Department soon began studying school shooters. In 2002, researchers presented their first findings: School shooters, they said, followed no set profile, but most were depressed and felt persecuted.

Princeton sociologist Katherine Newman, co-author of the 2004 book Rampage: The Social Roots of School Shootings, says young people such as Harris and Klebold are not loners they're just not accepted by the kids who count. "Getting attention by becoming notorious is better than being a failure."

The Secret Service found that school shooters usually tell other kids about their plans.

"Other students often even egg them on," says Newman, who led a congressionally mandated study on school shootings. "Then they end up with this escalating commitment. It's not a sudden snapping."

Langman, whose book profiles 10 shooters, including Harris and Klebold, found that nine suffered from depression and suicidal thoughts, a "potentially dangerous" combination, he says. "It is hard to prevent murder when killers do not care if they live or die. It is like trying to stop a suicide bomber."

At the time, Columbine became a kind of giant national Rorschach test. Observers saw its genesis in just about everything: lax parenting, lax gun laws, progressive schooling, repressive school culture, violent video games, antidepressant drugs and rock 'n' roll, for starters.

Many of the Columbine myths emerged before the shooting stopped, as rumors, misunderstandings and wishful thinking swirled in an echo chamber among witnesses, survivors, officials and the news media.

Police contributed to the mess by talking to reporters before they knew facts a hastily called news conference by the Jefferson County sheriff that afternoon produced the first headline: "Twenty-five dead in Colorado."

A few inaccuracies took hours to clear up, but others took weeks or months sometimes years as authorities reluctantly set the record straight.

Former Rocky Mountain News reporter Jeff Kass, author of a new book, Columbine: A True Crime Story, says police played a game of "Open Records charades."

In one case, county officials took five years just to acknowledge that they had met in secret after the attacks to discuss a 1998 affidavit for a search warrant on Harris' home it was the result of a complaint against him by the mother of a former friend. Harris had threatened her son on his website and bragged that he had been building bombs.

Police already had found a small bomb matching Harris' description near his home but investigators never presented the affidavit to a judge.

They also apparently didn't know that Harris and Klebold were on probation after having been arrested in January 1998 for breaking into a van and stealing electronics.

The search finally took place, but only after the shootings.

Meticulous planning

What's now beyond dispute largely from the killers' journals, which have been released over the past few years, is this: Harris and Klebold killed 13 and wounded 24, but they had hoped to kill thousands.

The pair planned the attacks for more than a year, building 100 bombs and persuading friends to buy them guns. Just after 11 a.m. on April 20, they lugged a pair of duffel bags containing propane-tank bombs into Columbine's crowded cafeteria and another into the kitchen, then stepped outside and waited.

Had the bombs exploded, they'd have killed virtually everyone eating lunch and brought the school's second-story library down atop the cafeteria, police say. Armed with a pistol, a rifle and two sawed-off shotguns, the pair planned to pick off survivors fleeing the carnage.

As a last terrorist act, a pair of gasoline bombs planted in Harris' Honda and Klebold's BMW had been rigged apparently to kill police, rescue teams, journalists and parents who rushed to the school long after the pair expected they would be dead.

The pair had parked the cars about 100 yards apart in the student lot. The bombs didn't go off.

Looking for answers at home

Since 1999, many people have looked to the boys' parents for answers, but a transcript of their 2003 court-ordered deposition to the victims' parents remains sealed until 2027.

The Klebolds spoke to New York Times columnist David Brooks in 2004 and impressed Brooks as "a well-educated, reflective, highly intelligent couple" who spent plenty of time with their son. They said they had no clues about Dylan's mental state and regretted not seeing that he was suicidal.

Could the parents have prevented the massacre? The FBI special agent in charge of the investigation has gone on record as having "the utmost sympathy" for the Harris and Klebold families.

"They have been vilified without information," retired supervisory special agent Dwayne Fuselier tells Cullen.

Cullen, who has spent most of the past decade poring over the record, comes away with a bit of sympathy.

For one thing, he notes, Harris' parents "knew they had a problem they thought they were dealing with it. What kind of parent is going to think, 'Well, maybe Eric's a mass murderer.' You just don't go there."

He got a good look at the boys' writings only in the past couple of years. Among the revelations: Eric Harris was financing what could well have been the biggest domestic terrorist attack on U.S. soil on wages from a part-time job at a pizza parlor.

"One of the scary things is that money was one of the limiting factors here," Cullen says.

Had Harris, then 18, put off the attacks for a few years and landed a well-paying job, he says, "he could be much more like Tim McVeigh," mixing fertilizer bombs like those used in Oklahoma City in 1995. As it was, he says, the fact that Harris carried out the attack when he did probably saved hundreds of lives.

"His limited salary probably limited the number of people who died."

Contributing: Marilyn Elias, USA TODAY

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...?se=yahoorefer
__________________
my name is ashlee


"I can feel it - the turn of the Earth,
the ground beneath our feet
spinning at a thousand miles an hour.
And the entire planet is hurtling around the sun
at 67,000 thousand miles an hour and I can feel it.
We're falling through space, you and me.
Clinging to the skin of this tiny little world
and if we let go..."

- The Doctor
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2009, 09:46 PM   #2
Nighthawk76
Forum Veteran
Rachel Berry
 
Nighthawk76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 28, 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 23,194
Default

This was one of the worst tragedies in the history of our country. I remember coming home from seeing a movie with a friend and hearing all about Columbine on the news that evening. I was shocked that such a thing could happen.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2009, 10:40 PM   #3
*Pleasant Tomorrow*
Forum Legend
Member
 
*Pleasant Tomorrow*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 19, 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 69,155
Default

I was only 10 when it happened so I don't remember it in too much detail, but I do remember people talking about it. I remember the book that came out about the girl who said yes when they asked if she believed in God. I'm kind of shocked that that didn't even happen. That's one of the reasons I found this article so interesting, the public has come to believe so many things about the incident that weren't even true. Apparently these guys weren't really the stereotypical loners, yet they were painted to be. They were just seemingly average kids.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2009, 11:17 PM   #4
PZelda
Moderator
Forum Legend
Two Valeries! <3
 
PZelda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 15, 2002
Location: I'm STILL missing NYC. :(
Posts: 78,000
Default

It took them a frigging DECADE to present us, the audience, with their findings?? Are you ****ing serious, guys?

No **** - VIDEO GAMES DON'T TEACH PEOPLE VIOLENCE. It lays in the person's HEAD. If they are ALREADY prediposed to be ****ed up people, then MAYBE video games will make them more violent. MAYBE. But they would have to be really mentally unstable to let violent video games have such an influence on them. I am a sane mid-20s female who has been playing video games for nearly 22 years. Not once in these 22 years have I wanted to go kill someone because of some game I played. And I have played plenty of them in my time.

I know someone just like Harris. Guys like Harris are extremely gifted, breeze through school and get angry when teachers tell them to slow down so their peers can keep up. They're also sweet as molasses to people around them that they're willing to help out, believe in conspirancy theories, have journal writings like that. I know, I've dealt with one. They are ****ing NUTS.

I'm just angry that it took TEN ****ING YEARS to happen.
__________________
Cheers behind the couch!
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2009, 11:29 PM   #5
JamesG
Moderator
Forum Celebrity
Freakshow
 
JamesG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 01, 2008
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 36,812
Default

I remember when this happened, I was in 8th grade.

I remember the whole violent movie, video game, Marilyn Manson blaming media panic that went on as well. There was a whole gun debate going on as well.

People at the time were pointing fingers and shifting the blame like crazy; not looking at themselves which was the essence of the problem.


It's normal, this is a common reaction when national tragedies happen; someone goes nuts, some video game and/or movie gets blamed, it makes the the talk show circuit and news for a few months, people debate about current gun laws, and then everything's back to normal.

Then at the next tragedy same cycle all over again.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2009, 12:25 AM   #6
Courtnee
Forum Veteran
MAN VS SAMMICH.
 
Courtnee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 23, 2005
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 16,378
Send a message via AIM to Courtnee Send a message via MSN to Courtnee
Default

It terrifies me that they were able to recieve those weapons as easily as they did.

It terrifies me MORE that nothing has changed ten years later.
__________________
Whether I'm the rose of sheer perfection
A freckle on the nose of life's complexion
The Cinderella or the shine apple of its eye
I gotta fly once, I gotta try once,
Only can die once, right, sir?
Ooh, life is juicy, juicy and you see,
I gotta have my bite, sir.
Get ready for me love, 'cause I'm a "comer"
I simply gotta march, my heart's a drummer
Don't bring around the cloud to rain on my parade
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2009, 12:33 AM   #7
Sara Micelli
Senior Member
Member
 
Sara Micelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 14, 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,092
Send a message via AIM to Sara Micelli
Default

Nevermind
__________________
Formerly popcornperson2002.

Some people come into our lives and quickly go.Some stay for a while and leave footprints on our hearts. And we are never,ever the same-source unknown.

"Suicide sometimes proceeds from cowardice, but not always; for cowardice sometimes prevents it; since as many live because they are afraid to die, as die because they are afraid to live"
-Charles Caleb Colton
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2009, 12:40 AM   #8
catlover79
Moderator
Forum Legend
God Bless Val
 
catlover79's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 29, 2006
Location: Bewitched in Ohio
Posts: 69,229
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Courtnee
It terrifies me that they were able to recieve those weapons as easily as they did.

It terrifies me MORE that nothing has changed ten years later.
Amen to that!! I had just come home from an afternoon college course and was watching General Hospital when the news broke in. I can't believe it's been 10 years already, 14 years since the Oklahoma City bombing and coming up on 8 years since 9/11. It's infuriating that security has remained so lax since then.
__________________
"Jesus loves you and He approves this message."

"I'm alive. I'm feeling good. I'm trying to live every moment as much as I can." - Valerie Harper, March 2013
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2009, 01:01 AM   #9
Hollow
Forum Celebrity
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 16, 2001
Posts: 30,232
Default

i remember this. i was in fourth grade and i used it as my news story for current events presentations. this latest update doesn't really surprise me. i've read about the shootings through the years, and those two come off as a little more psychopathic than frustrated. from an article about it:

Harris, noticing a student under table 11, told him to identify himself. The student, who was an acquaintance of Klebold, identified himself and asked Klebold what he was doing. Klebold replied, “ Oh, just killing people.”

i'm pretty sure if anyone with a conscience were angry and mistreated enough to go on a killing spree, they still wouldn't be acting like it was nothing.

Quote:
That story about a student being shot in the head after she said she believed in God? Never happened, the FBI says now.
may the girl rest in peace, but i never found that aspect of the tragedy to be as touching as people made it out to be anyway. her mom even wrote a book about her being a "martyr" because of it. with the way eric and dylan were shooting just about anyone they came across in the room, i think they would have killed her no matter how she answered the question.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2009, 12:34 PM   #10
browneyes106
Senior Member
Member
 
browneyes106's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 01, 2008
Posts: 6,043
Default

I can't believe it has already been ten years since that happened. I remember I was in the 8th grade when it happened. I had spring volleyball practice after school that day so when I came home around 5 that night my parents had it on CNN. I have relatives that live near the Columbine but their kids attended a different school. The part about the girl being shot for saying she believed in God has been disputed for the past few years. I kind of remember reading an article in which another survivor from the library said he never heard her say that.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2009, 12:53 PM   #11
Pusy Galore
Forum Veteran
In God's Arms Now
 
Pusy Galore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 14, 2003
Location: Heartbreak Ridge
Posts: 11,990
Default

This whole thing is just so sad all the way around. Including how the two boys fell through the cracks in the system with no help at all - especially Dylan. I think he just followed Eric who was the super dangerous one of the two.

What scares me is how this is happening more and more since the 1970s.
__________________
If I don't see you in this world, I'll meet you in the next one.....don't be late

James Marshall Hendrix
Voodoo Chile


The Forum Legend formerly known as TripperFan

"religion is for people who are afraid of hell--spirituality is for people who have been through hell"---anonymous
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2009, 04:16 PM   #12
browneyes106
Senior Member
Member
 
browneyes106's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 01, 2008
Posts: 6,043
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TripperFan
This whole thing is just so sad all the way around. Including how the two boys fell through the cracks in the system with no help at all - especially Dylan. I think he just followed Eric who was the super dangerous one of the two.

What scares me is how this is happening more and more since the 1970s.

I agree with you on Eric. I have read a lot of articles that Eric was a controlling friend. I think a lot of people tend feel sorry for Dylan.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:40 PM.


Although the administrators and moderators of the Sitcoms Online Message Boards will attempt to keep all objectionable messages off this forum, it is impossible for us to review all messages. All messages express the views of the author, and neither the owners of the Sitcoms Online Message Boards, nor Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. (developers of vBulletin) will be held responsible for the content of any message. The owners of the Sitcoms Online Message Boards reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason.

Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.5.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.