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dawnfla6aa2 · 01-09-2009, 06:12 PM

I have to turn to you guys for some info. See, I use to think I was a die hard UM fan and then I came to this site. You guys are incredible!

So does anyone know if any of these updates are new?

LooksLikeCRicci · 01-12-2009, 09:19 PM

The "new" UM which is being broadcast on Spike TV, to my knowledge, has taken each case it's profiled and if there has been an update, it has updated it with the applicable stuff.

So if you're watching it on Spike... it's probably the most updated information available.

dawnfla6aa2 · 01-13-2009, 07:11 PM

Thank you.

Fletch · 01-14-2009, 02:37 PM

It's really pissing me off when they show an update for someone who murdered someone, and Farina says something like "He was sentenced to 16 years in prison. He was released after serving 5 years."

WTF! Sometimes the judicial system in this country is an absolute disgrace.

TracyLynnS · 01-14-2009, 02:45 PM

My DS, who is 21, was watching some of these with me before he left for work. He said, "That guy was sentenced to 18 years for murder and he was released after only 8 years!"

DS was outraged. But that's just one of the few times he's been exposed to our pathetic justice system, where you can kill somebody, spend a few years getting free food and free shelter, and then just mosey on your way to do whatever else you feel like doing in your life of crime.

Fletch · 01-14-2009, 04:07 PM

TracyLynnS · 01-14-2009, 04:34 PM

DS = shorthand for dear son
DH = dear hubby
SO = significant other
etc

dawnfla6aa2 · 01-14-2009, 07:19 PM

I use to be a corrections officer in Florida and I remember the inmates going to court for sentencing and on thier way back to the jail they had already calculated when thier release date would be if they recieved time for good behavior, etc. It use to burn my A**!

nohwheregirl · 01-14-2009, 10:25 PM

That's what happens when a nation decides that it would rather lock up minorities, poor people, drug addicts and mentally ill people then give them education, jobs, or treatment. The people that really should be locked up get pushed out of the system and put back on the streets. I'll get off my soap box now.

VikingsGal · 01-15-2009, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TracyLynnS

My DS, who is 21, was watching some of these with me before he left for work. He said, "That guy was sentenced to 18 years for murder and he was released after only 8 years!"

DS was outraged. But that's just one of the few times he's been exposed to our pathetic justice system, where you can kill somebody, spend a few years getting free food and free shelter, and then just mosey on your way to do whatever else you feel like doing in your life of crime.

I am not here to defend ANY justice system but remember we are usually watchig cases that are very old and murder convictions did not always mean life in prison. Here in Minnesota a murder conviction used to mean 20 years. And even if they catch someone 25 years later they must be sentenced how they would have been sentenced back when the crime was committed. Fair? No. But life isn't fair.

And many times prisoners are released due to overcrowding in prisons. Again, fair? No. And prison is much more than free food and free shelter. It is a VERY hard place (rightly so) where you have No privacy, no rights and someone can stab you in the neck and not care cause he is in for life anyway!

But the "getting out early due to good behavior" always makes me laugh. Good behavior? THEY ARE IN PRISON DUE TO BAD BEHAVIOR!!

kadrmas15 · 01-15-2009, 03:50 PM

Well now, let's just take it easy folks. First some FACTS. Yes, it is true that prisoners get free food and shelter, but I find that people that get on their high horse about this probably wouldnt last half a day either side of the bars (either as a guard or inmate). The food is of low quality and is sometimes produced by other inmates, many of which have HIV, AIDS, Hepatitis and who knows what other diseases. These prisons are not country clubs and I have still yet to figure out how people got under the very common and very wrong illusion that they are.

Good behavior is meant for good behavior in prison. If you kept everyone for 100 percent of the time you would have disasterous conditions in prisons in terms of overcrowding and other problems. If non-violent offenders were not being locked up there would be more room. Instead we are throwing non-violent offenders, drug users and other people of this sort into prison for longer periods of time than ever before. Not good. This is what leads to massive overcrowding and this is what leads to mass paroles. You know how much of a disaster that would be? Texas knows first hand.

The feds required Texas to do a mass parole in the late 80's because the state refused to run their prison system properly. As a result many people were released that would not have been in any other circumstance. Among them, Kenneth McDuff, a convicted triple murderer that had been in prison for 23 years was paroled in 1989. He went on to kill, I believe 8 or 9 women while out on parole over a 4 year period. California is looking at a similiar situation if they do not do something and fast. California refuses to run their prison system properly and has refused for sometime. As a result they are 75,000 inmates over capacity and the feds are threatening to order a mass parole in California as well.

As for Florida, I am not slamming the particular person that was a guard, however that state in particular is well known for it's highly corrupt prison system, in particular it's prison guards. Of course some guards are good, some are not good. In Florida, the gaintime system is easy to figure out as it requires 85 percent of the sentence to be served. So subtract 15 percent of the time from your sentence and there is when you will be released.

Finally, in many of the cases where you are hearing about where a person was released after serving 50 percent of their sentence or less there is a simple explaination behind that. It is because many of these people are tried in states where the state is required to sentence the person according to the laws that were in effect at the time of the crime. Since many of these crimes occured in the 1970's and 1980's the laws were much more lax.

Sorry for getting on the soapbox but I felt that some of the facts needed to be put out there and some of the fallacies cleared up.

TracyLynnS · 01-15-2009, 05:37 PM

Well, I just think we don't apply the death sentence as liberally as we should. Charles Starkweather was 19 years old when he started his killing spree in 1957. 18 months later, they fried him in the electric chair. Caril Fugate probably would have fried too, but she was only 14, and claimed to have been an unwilling captive.

Raymond Fernandez and Martha Beck were 34 and 29 years old when they killed their last victim in 1949. They both died in the electric chair in March 1951.

Fast justice. They had their trials. They had their appeals. They were sentenced to death for the crime of murder and the sentence was carried out. And this was before we even had DNA, or even any kind of good science to make sure we weren't sending innocent people to their deaths.

With the certainty of DNA to back up a conviction, I don't see any reason why a prison system has to be full of convicted murderers sitting around for 15 or 20 years waiting for their sentences to be carried out, or to finish their appeals. Carry out the DP. That's the way to issue an effective mass "parole".

But then, that's just my opinion.

Big3sCompanyFan · 01-15-2009, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TracyLynnS

Well, I just think we don't apply the death sentence as liberally as we should. Charles Starkweather was 19 years old when he started his killing spree in 1957. 18 months later, they fried him in the electric chair. Caril Fugate probably would have fried too, but she was only 14, and claimed to have been an unwilling captive.

Raymond Fernandez and Martha Beck were 34 and 29 years old when they killed their last victim in 1949. They both died in the electric chair in March 1951.

Fast justice. They had their trials. They had their appeals. They were sentenced to death for the crime of murder and the sentence was carried out. And this was before we even had DNA, or even any kind of good science to make sure we weren't sending innocent people to their deaths.

With the certainty of DNA to back up a conviction, I don't see any reason why a prison system has to be full of convicted murderers sitting around for 15 or 20 years waiting for their sentences to be carried out, or to finish their appeals. Carry out the DP. That's the way to issue an effective mass "parole".

But then, that's just my opinion.

You make a good point. Since we can identify killers better these days through forensics they should do it like they did in the 50s and carry out the sentence if they are really sure.

You mentioned Caril Fugate and that pi*sses me off because she was SO guilty and even admitted to cops that she shot victims and held the gun on a couple while Chuck was ransacking. She should not have gotten death but she should've gotten life without parole.

kadrmas15 · 01-15-2009, 08:57 PM

Well, the problem with this philosophy is that it is an overly simplistic way of looking at a very complicated issue. First off, you assume that everyone executed was rightfully executed when in fact there have been innocent people executed. Also, DNA does not apply in all cases. A lot of times, prosecutors are very reluctant to allow DNA testing. Why? Well, because it could potentially prove someone innocent of course! It is still amazing to me how some people think we have to have the death penalty more not less. Most people that have been cleared by DNA or other means had all of their appeals turned down before. The one and your done appeal philosophy was done away with it because it violated the right to due process. The death penalty is not, nor has it ever been, nor will it ever be an effective deterrent. I'm not willing to take a chance and possibly execute an innocent person. There are people on death row now that are innocent! Yet we should "fry" everyone? I'm sorry but I cannot agree with that under any circumstance.

TracyLynnS · 01-16-2009, 09:40 AM

Nope, no need to fry the "iffy" ones. Just fry the murderers who we KNOW did it, when their crimes are backed up with DNA or another proof.

Who thinks Scott Peterson didn't kill Lacy and Conner on christmas eve? He's on death row, 6 years after the murders. If CA carries out his sentence, it will follow it's average of 20-22 years before applying the DP, adding one more person to their over croweded prisons.

Compared CA's slowpokey way of meting out justice to the federal gov't, who sent Tim McVeigh to the death chamber 7 years after his mass murder occured. He was fastracked compared to what CA does to their killers.

But then, I'm also of the opinion that 3 time convicted rapists should receive the DP. And 1 time child rapists should be sent off to the death chamber, too.

I'm really an extremist in that way, and no one ever agrees with me. It's JMO, as it developed over the years of studying crimes. Also becoming the victim of a child pretador, who the cops flat out told my mom "will progress to killing his victims" to eliminate them as witnesses, and then watching him get no jail time for his crimes helped to mold that opinion.

If they've proven that they'll victimize the innocent repeatedly, and won't be rehabilitated, society has to cut its losses. I'm feeding them and housing them against my will, and I count that as being victimized again.

01-09-2009, 06:12 PM	#1
dawnfla6aa2 Frequent Poster Member Join Date: Nov 18, 2008 Location: California Posts: 42	New Updates I have to turn to you guys for some info. See, I use to think I was a die hard UM fan and then I came to this site. You guys are incredible! So does anyone know if any of these updates are new?

01-14-2009, 04:07 PM	#6
Fletch Frequent Poster Bullhead City, AZ Join Date: May 10, 2002 Posts: 172	DS?

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01-12-2009, 09:19 PM	#2
LooksLikeCRicci Senior Member Likes to live in a clean house Join Date: Nov 27, 2005 Posts: 1,483	The "new" UM which is being broadcast on Spike TV, to my knowledge, has taken each case it's profiled and if there has been an update, it has updated it with the applicable stuff. So if you're watching it on Spike... it's probably the most updated information available.

01-13-2009, 07:11 PM	#3
dawnfla6aa2 Frequent Poster Member Join Date: Nov 18, 2008 Location: California Posts: 42	Thank you.

01-14-2009, 02:37 PM	#4
Fletch Frequent Poster Bullhead City, AZ Join Date: May 10, 2002 Posts: 172	It's really pissing me off when they show an update for someone who murdered someone, and Farina says something like "He was sentenced to 16 years in prison. He was released after serving 5 years." WTF! Sometimes the judicial system in this country is an absolute disgrace.

01-14-2009, 02:45 PM	#5
TracyLynnS Senior Member Don't Look Up Join Date: Jan 07, 2009 Posts: 2,421	My DS, who is 21, was watching some of these with me before he left for work. He said, "That guy was sentenced to 18 years for murder and he was released after only 8 years!" DS was outraged. But that's just one of the few times he's been exposed to our pathetic justice system, where you can kill somebody, spend a few years getting free food and free shelter, and then just mosey on your way to do whatever else you feel like doing in your life of crime.

01-14-2009, 04:34 PM	#7
TracyLynnS Senior Member Don't Look Up Join Date: Jan 07, 2009 Posts: 2,421	DS = shorthand for dear son DH = dear hubby SO = significant other etc

01-14-2009, 07:19 PM	#8
dawnfla6aa2 Frequent Poster Member Join Date: Nov 18, 2008 Location: California Posts: 42	I use to be a corrections officer in Florida and I remember the inmates going to court for sentencing and on thier way back to the jail they had already calculated when thier release date would be if they recieved time for good behavior, etc. It use to burn my A**!

01-14-2009, 10:25 PM	#9
nohwheregirl Forum Regular THE Mystery Machine Join Date: Apr 23, 2004 Posts: 937	That's what happens when a nation decides that it would rather lock up minorities, poor people, drug addicts and mentally ill people then give them education, jobs, or treatment. The people that really should be locked up get pushed out of the system and put back on the streets. I'll get off my soap box now.

01-15-2009, 03:50 PM	#11
kadrmas15 Senior Member Retired from Board 03/03/11 Join Date: Mar 11, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,888	Well now, let's just take it easy folks. First some FACTS. Yes, it is true that prisoners get free food and shelter, but I find that people that get on their high horse about this probably wouldnt last half a day either side of the bars (either as a guard or inmate). The food is of low quality and is sometimes produced by other inmates, many of which have HIV, AIDS, Hepatitis and who knows what other diseases. These prisons are not country clubs and I have still yet to figure out how people got under the very common and very wrong illusion that they are. Good behavior is meant for good behavior in prison. If you kept everyone for 100 percent of the time you would have disasterous conditions in prisons in terms of overcrowding and other problems. If non-violent offenders were not being locked up there would be more room. Instead we are throwing non-violent offenders, drug users and other people of this sort into prison for longer periods of time than ever before. Not good. This is what leads to massive overcrowding and this is what leads to mass paroles. You know how much of a disaster that would be? Texas knows first hand. The feds required Texas to do a mass parole in the late 80's because the state refused to run their prison system properly. As a result many people were released that would not have been in any other circumstance. Among them, Kenneth McDuff, a convicted triple murderer that had been in prison for 23 years was paroled in 1989. He went on to kill, I believe 8 or 9 women while out on parole over a 4 year period. California is looking at a similiar situation if they do not do something and fast. California refuses to run their prison system properly and has refused for sometime. As a result they are 75,000 inmates over capacity and the feds are threatening to order a mass parole in California as well. As for Florida, I am not slamming the particular person that was a guard, however that state in particular is well known for it's highly corrupt prison system, in particular it's prison guards. Of course some guards are good, some are not good. In Florida, the gaintime system is easy to figure out as it requires 85 percent of the sentence to be served. So subtract 15 percent of the time from your sentence and there is when you will be released. Finally, in many of the cases where you are hearing about where a person was released after serving 50 percent of their sentence or less there is a simple explaination behind that. It is because many of these people are tried in states where the state is required to sentence the person according to the laws that were in effect at the time of the crime. Since many of these crimes occured in the 1970's and 1980's the laws were much more lax. Sorry for getting on the soapbox but I felt that some of the facts needed to be put out there and some of the fallacies cleared up.

01-15-2009, 05:37 PM	#12
TracyLynnS Senior Member Don't Look Up Join Date: Jan 07, 2009 Posts: 2,421	Well, I just think we don't apply the death sentence as liberally as we should. Charles Starkweather was 19 years old when he started his killing spree in 1957. 18 months later, they fried him in the electric chair. Caril Fugate probably would have fried too, but she was only 14, and claimed to have been an unwilling captive. Raymond Fernandez and Martha Beck were 34 and 29 years old when they killed their last victim in 1949. They both died in the electric chair in March 1951. Fast justice. They had their trials. They had their appeals. They were sentenced to death for the crime of murder and the sentence was carried out. And this was before we even had DNA, or even any kind of good science to make sure we weren't sending innocent people to their deaths. With the certainty of DNA to back up a conviction, I don't see any reason why a prison system has to be full of convicted murderers sitting around for 15 or 20 years waiting for their sentences to be carried out, or to finish their appeals. Carry out the DP. That's the way to issue an effective mass "parole". But then, that's just my opinion.

01-15-2009, 08:57 PM	#14
kadrmas15 Senior Member Retired from Board 03/03/11 Join Date: Mar 11, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,888	Well, the problem with this philosophy is that it is an overly simplistic way of looking at a very complicated issue. First off, you assume that everyone executed was rightfully executed when in fact there have been innocent people executed. Also, DNA does not apply in all cases. A lot of times, prosecutors are very reluctant to allow DNA testing. Why? Well, because it could potentially prove someone innocent of course! It is still amazing to me how some people think we have to have the death penalty more not less. Most people that have been cleared by DNA or other means had all of their appeals turned down before. The one and your done appeal philosophy was done away with it because it violated the right to due process. The death penalty is not, nor has it ever been, nor will it ever be an effective deterrent. I'm not willing to take a chance and possibly execute an innocent person. There are people on death row now that are innocent! Yet we should "fry" everyone? I'm sorry but I cannot agree with that under any circumstance.

01-16-2009, 09:40 AM	#15
TracyLynnS Senior Member Don't Look Up Join Date: Jan 07, 2009 Posts: 2,421	Nope, no need to fry the "iffy" ones. Just fry the murderers who we KNOW did it, when their crimes are backed up with DNA or another proof. Who thinks Scott Peterson didn't kill Lacy and Conner on christmas eve? He's on death row, 6 years after the murders. If CA carries out his sentence, it will follow it's average of 20-22 years before applying the DP, adding one more person to their over croweded prisons. Compared CA's slowpokey way of meting out justice to the federal gov't, who sent Tim McVeigh to the death chamber 7 years after his mass murder occured. He was fastracked compared to what CA does to their killers. But then, I'm also of the opinion that 3 time convicted rapists should receive the DP. And 1 time child rapists should be sent off to the death chamber, too. I'm really an extremist in that way, and no one ever agrees with me. It's JMO, as it developed over the years of studying crimes. Also becoming the victim of a child pretador, who the cops flat out told my mom "will progress to killing his victims" to eliminate them as witnesses, and then watching him get no jail time for his crimes helped to mold that opinion. If they've proven that they'll victimize the innocent repeatedly, and won't be rehabilitated, society has to cut its losses. I'm feeding them and housing them against my will, and I count that as being victimized again.