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Old 07-05-2007, 12:41 AM   #1
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Default William Frawley?

I just recently received the some ILL collections and have been watching them like crazy since I haven't seen the majority of the episodes.
Anyway, while watching I noticed every time William Frawley is holding something he's shaking- sometimes it's very slightly and other times it's very noticeable. I was just wondering if he had some type of illness? He really didn't appear to be nervous but maybe he was?
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Old 07-05-2007, 12:52 AM   #2
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hey,

William Frawly had a bad BAD drinking problem. The head people didn't want him to play the part of Fred because of it, but Desi talked to William(bill) about it and he agreed to quit, or cut back, so what you are seeing i would say are prob. him going through with drawls that would be my guess...i dont know of any other "health" reason other than that i could be wrong. hope that helps
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Old 07-05-2007, 01:08 AM   #3
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Sure does thanks!
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Old 07-05-2007, 11:08 PM   #4
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Some older folks do have shakey hands, my Mom did and some days were not as bad as others.
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Old 07-05-2007, 11:29 PM   #5
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Some older folks do have shakey hands, my Mom did and some days were not as bad as others.

Well William was just an alcoholic and he had the shakes.
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Old 07-26-2007, 11:13 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewfussclass101
hey,

William Frawly had a bad BAD drinking problem. The head people didn't want him to play the part of Fred because of it, but Desi talked to William(bill) about it and he agreed to quit, or cut back, so what you are seeing i would say are prob. him going through with drawls that would be my guess...i dont know of any other "health" reason other than that i could be wrong. hope that helps

Yes, that's most likely what happened.

I've heard that Frawley had it in his contract (at Desi's insistence) that if he (Frawley) was ever late for any meeting, rehearsal or shooting session because of his drinking, he would be fired immediately... I don't know if that's true or not. But Frawley was definitely a big time drinker.
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Old 07-26-2007, 11:34 PM   #7
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Well William was just an alcoholic and he had the shakes.
Yep.
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Old 07-28-2007, 09:36 PM   #8
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We all know Bill drank. It seems to me you would have to be pretty bad off to have shakes so severe from drinking. It is amazing that he could even function, show up to work and speak his lines if he was that far gone.

I tended to think he might have had Parkinson's or something like that. Maybe 50 years ago they really didn't diagnose it. It was found that Hitler had Parkinson's and tried to hide it. I saw footage of his later years and his right hand shook just like Bill's. He kept his hand in his pocket to hide it.

Believe me, I am not comparing William Frawley to Hitler. I just wonder if they could have had the same ailment and it was hidden from the world.
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Old 07-29-2007, 12:34 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame X
We all know Bill drank. It seems to me you would have to be pretty bad off to have shakes so severe from drinking. It is amazing that he could even function, show up to work and speak his lines if he was that far gone.

I tended to think he might have had Parkinson's or something like that. Maybe 50 years ago they really didn't diagnose it. It was found that Hitler had Parkinson's and tried to hide it. I saw footage of his later years and his right hand shook just like Bill's. He kept his hand in his pocket to hide it.

Believe me, I am not comparing William Frawley to Hitler. I just wonder if they could have had the same ailment and it was hidden from the world.

He was a functioning alcoholic, I don't remember him shaking that bad on My Three Sons. So maybe when Lucy ended he was getting his fill of alcohol. Plus when he was on I Love Lucy he quit cold turkey, it's not like they had rehabs back then. They just had nut houses for people to go to.
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Old 07-29-2007, 12:57 AM   #10
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I have read that when Desi Arnez met with Bill Frawley about his request to be considered for the role of Fred Mertz-- at a bar, over drinks, of course-- that Desi expressed his concern because the CBS people warned him about Frawley's excessive drinking and that he would miss rehearsals and wouldn't be able to play his part straight when they filmed. Frawley just answered, "Why those bastards are always saying that about me!......." So Desi told him that if he missed a rehearsal or wasn't sober during filming, that he would cover for him up to 3 times; after 3 he would be gone for good. But Desi never had to cover for him even once.

On My Three Sons, he had no such warnings-- though I haven't actually read it, it's probably because he 'proved' he could do series television, in spite of his drinking, on ILL. So in is years on that show, he would go to his favorite local bar (the Cockin'bull?) and "drink his lunch." Another way in which he made himself something of a hero to the boys on the MTS cast was to take them with him sometimes and buy them drinks, even though they were under age. But before his stay was over on that show, his handshaking became worse and he would actually fall asleep sometimes while having his scenes filmed. It may be worth noting that he never really adjusted to the MTS method of filming-- Fred MacMurray got Don Fedderson Productions to agree to his demands that his (MacMurray's) scenes were all done in 3 months for the entire season; meaning that all MacMurray's scenes were filmed first, then they would 'go back' and film all scenes without MacMurray; so it's sometimes noticeable that one of the boys would go out of the kitchen, for example, then enter the living room and his hair wasn't combed exactly the same way. Frawley reportedly was often confused by this method-- but if it's true that on ILL he never considered anyone's part but his own [he would tear out the script dialogue that didn't include his character and just learn his own lines, sometimes not understanding the "why's" of what he would be saying], it's hard to see the "MacMurray Method" shoud have been more confusing to him.
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Old 07-31-2007, 09:04 AM   #11
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No way, i noticed this to, it seemed to be his right arm that shaked! oh what a shame that he was a alcoholic.
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Old 08-02-2007, 09:49 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tweety
Yes, that's most likely what happened.

I've heard that Frawley had it in his contract (at Desi's insistence) that if he (Frawley) was ever late for any meeting, rehearsal or shooting session because of his drinking, he would be fired immediately... I don't know if that's true or not. But Frawley was definitely a big time drinker.

Here's the story of his being hired as it was told in Desi Arnaz's 1976 autobiography "A Book by Desi Arnaz - The outspoken memoirs of "Ricky Ricardo" ---the man who loved Lucy"


"The writers said, "It may be tiresome just to have Lucy and Ricky week after week. Also, the Lucy character needs someone to be her ally. The Ethel character should be the one she would talk into helping her with her wild plans and schemes, and even though Ethel many times would say. "Oh no you're not going to get me into that deal," Lucy would eventually connive or blackmail her into it."

They also felt that Ricky needed the counterpart to Ethel. That would be Fred, her husband. Ricky's ally in these battles of the sexes.

While we were trying to resolve all the physical, mechanical and bureaucratic problems, the writers had been busy writing the first few segments of the series, which we would have to start doing soon in order to meet our on-the-air schedule. So we had to find somebody -- two anybodies--who fitted what those neighbors were supposed to be like.

I must say we were pretty lucky (all due respect to Philip Morris, who never allowed us to use that word while they were sponsoring our show) to find two people we found to play Fred and Ethel Mertz.

Soon after this writer's conference and decision I got a call from William Frawley. I hadn't thought about him for the part, but somehow he knew about the series format and wanted to be considered for Fred. I had seen Frawley in many pictures with Bing Crosby, James Cagney, Pat O'Brien and other stars. He had been a top character actor for years but hadn't done anything lately.

"Thanks for calling, Mr. Frawley," I said. "I think you might be a possibility. Let me call you back."

After I hung up I kept seeing his puss and remembering how good he was at playing the kind of gruff character he usually played. The more I thought about it, the more I became convinced he was Fred Mertz.

I then checked with the CBS people, the sponsor and the advertising agency. They all said, "Yeah, we know what he had done in the past, but what has he done lately? Besides, he's an alcoholic. You'd be out of your mind to hire him. There are a lot of actors who are much more dependable and can play that part."

The more they kept tearing this guy apart, the more I liked the idea of hiring him, and the more I thought he would be perfect for Fred.

According to my contract as executive producer, I had complete creative control of the show. I knew I could land on my ass by doing the wrong thing, but I'd rather land on it by doing that than by having someone else talk me into doing something which would land me there anyway.

I made up my mind to hire Frawley, regardless of what they said. I made a date to meet him the next day at Nickodell's, a restaurant and bar on Melrose Avenue, right behind RKO Studios. We had a drink together and I told him that everybody was telling me he was an alcoholic, that he might not even show up. etc.

"Well those bastards, those SOB's," he said "They're always saying that about me. How the hell do they know, those bastards?"

"Look, I don't give a damn whether you drink or not. I like to drink myself and I'll drink you under the table anytime you'd like to give it a try, except during working hours. But Lucy and I have everything going on this project. She's given up her motion-picture career and I've given up my band business. If we fail, I don't want it to be because some character like you loused us up."

"Give us another drink here, will you?" He told the waiter.
"Now listen, Mr. Frawley."
"Call me Bill."
"All right, Bill, I want you to know that I have given this thing a lot of thought. I have considered many good character actors for this part, especially Gale Gordon, who's very well liked by the agencies and the networks."
"What can he do, that I can't?" Bill asked.
"Nothing, it's what you do that he doesn't do that louses you up. But I am convinced that there is no one better in the whole world to play Fred Mertz than William Frawley."

The drinks arrived and he told the waiter this was his tab.

The he turned to me and said, "All right, so what's your problem? William Frawley is now sitting next to you and willing to listen to the kind of proposition you are willing to offer him to make your show a success."

"Okay, Bill, I'll tell you what I'll do with you. The first time you are not able to do your job, I'll try to work around you for that day. The second time, I'll try to manage again. But if you do it three times, you are through, and I mean through, not only on our show, but you'll never work in this town again as long as you live. Is that fair enough?"

"All right, g..damn it, that's fair enough."

"After work if you feel like coming to Nickodell's, and splitting a bottle of whatever you like, I'll be happy to come and split it with you."

"Hey waiter, what the hell is this, the Sahara Desert? We are thirsty. Okay, Cuban, we have a deal and we'll show all them bastards how wrong they are."

He never missed a day's work nor was he even a few minutes late during all the years he was with us.
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Old 08-03-2007, 12:08 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caladon
Here's the story of his being hired as it was told in Desi Arnaz's 1976 autobiography "A Book by Desi Arnaz - The outspoken memoirs of "Ricky Ricardo" ---the man who loved Lucy"


"The writers said, "It may be tiresome just to have Lucy and Ricky week after week. Also, the Lucy character needs someone to be her ally. The Ethel character should be the one she would talk into helping her with her wild plans and schemes, and even though Ethel many times would say. "Oh no you're not going to get me into that deal," Lucy would eventually connive or blackmail her into it."

They also felt that Ricky needed the counterpart to Ethel. That would be Fred, her husband. Ricky's ally in these battles of the sexes.

While we were trying to resolve all the physical, mechanical and bureaucratic problems, the writers had been busy writing the first few segments of the series, which we would have to start doing soon in order to meet our on-the-air schedule. So we had to find somebody -- two anybodies--who fitted what those neighbors were supposed to be like.

I must say we were pretty lucky (all due respect to Philip Morris, who never allowed us to use that word while they were sponsoring our show) to find two people we found to play Fred and Ethel Mertz.

Soon after this writer's conference and decision I got a call from William Frawley. I hadn't thought about him for the part, but somehow he knew about the series format and wanted to be considered for Fred. I had seen Frawley in many pictures with Bing Crosby, James Cagney, Pat O'Brien and other stars. He had been a top character actor for years but hadn't done anything lately.

"Thanks for calling, Mr. Frawley," I said. "I think you might be a possibility. Let me call you back."

After I hung up I kept seeing his puss and remembering how good he was at playing the kind of gruff character he usually played. The more I thought about it, the more I became convinced he was Fred Mertz.

I then checked with the CBS people, the sponsor and the advertising agency. They all said, "Yeah, we know what he had done in the past, but what has he done lately? Besides, he's an alcoholic. You'd be out of your mind to hire him. There are a lot of actors who are much more dependable and can play that part."

The more they kept tearing this guy apart, the more I liked the idea of hiring him, and the more I thought he would be perfect for Fred.

According to my contract as executive producer, I had complete creative control of the show. I knew I could land on my ass by doing the wrong thing, but I'd rather land on it by doing that than by having someone else talk me into doing something which would land me there anyway.

I made up my mind to hire Frawley, regardless of what they said. I made a date to meet him the next day at Nickodell's, a restaurant and bar on Melrose Avenue, right behind RKO Studios. We had a drink together and I told him that everybody was telling me he was an alcoholic, that he might not even show up. etc.

"Well those bastards, those SOB's," he said "They're always saying that about me. How the hell do they know, those bastards?"

"Look, I don't give a damn whether you drink or not. I like to drink myself and I'll drink you under the table anytime you'd like to give it a try, except during working hours. But Lucy and I have everything going on this project. She's given up her motion-picture career and I've given up my band business. If we fail, I don't want it to be because some character like you loused us up."

"Give us another drink here, will you?" He told the waiter.
"Now listen, Mr. Frawley."
"Call me Bill."
"All right, Bill, I want you to know that I have given this thing a lot of thought. I have considered many good character actors for this part, especially Gale Gordon, who's very well liked by the agencies and the networks."
"What can he do, that I can't?" Bill asked.
"Nothing, it's what you do that he doesn't do that louses you up. But I am convinced that there is no one better in the whole world to play Fred Mertz than William Frawley."

The drinks arrived and he told the waiter this was his tab.

The he turned to me and said, "All right, so what's your problem? William Frawley is now sitting next to you and willing to listen to the kind of proposition you are willing to offer him to make your show a success."

"Okay, Bill, I'll tell you what I'll do with you. The first time you are not able to do your job, I'll try to work around you for that day. The second time, I'll try to manage again. But if you do it three times, you are through, and I mean through, not only on our show, but you'll never work in this town again as long as you live. Is that fair enough?"

"All right, g..damn it, that's fair enough."

"After work if you feel like coming to Nickodell's, and splitting a bottle of whatever you like, I'll be happy to come and split it with you."

"Hey waiter, what the hell is this, the Sahara Desert? We are thirsty. Okay, Cuban, we have a deal and we'll show all them bastards how wrong they are."

He never missed a day's work nor was he even a few minutes late during all the years he was with us.

Thanks, Caladon. I really enjoyed reading this and appreciate you taking the time. I'd like to read that book. I read "Love Lucy," but now I see I need to read the stories of Desi, Viv and Bill too.
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Old 08-03-2007, 07:01 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caladon
Here's the story of his being hired as it was told in Desi ...
He never missed a day's work nor was he even a few minutes late during all the years he was with us.


Wow, thanks for posting that, it's a great story!

And it's yet another example of someone (Desi) who didn't listen to his critics (i.e. everyone he talked to in Hollywood who told him he'd be crazy to hire Frawley) and made history.

I have heard that "Gale Gordon was considered for the part"... but I didn't realize that Desi was THAT determined to hire Frawley in spite of all the criticism.

But as good as Gale Gordon was, Fred Mertz was one of those characters where it's impossible to even imagine someone else in that role... same with Ethel... I've also heard that Lucy originally wanted Bea Benedaret to play Ethel, but I think Bea was working with Burns and Allen and didn't want to leave (?)

I've read a lot over the years about "original" casting choices that didn't work out for one reason or another... it's amazing when you hear about some of these things, but, in the end, things happen for a reason. And Desi, Lucy, William and Vivian were, and still are, the "Fab Four" of television. We'll never see anything like it again.
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Old 08-04-2007, 12:32 AM   #15
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I'm glad you folks enjoyed the post. I thought that since you enjoyed the story behind the hiring of William Frawley as Fred Mertz you'd like the story behind the hiring of Vivian Vance as Ethel Mertz too; so here it is; from the autobiography "A Book by Desi Arnaz - The outspoken memoirs of "Ricky Ricardo" ---the man who loved Lucy"


"About a week before we had to start filming, Marc Daniels, our director, came to me and said he thought he had a really good possibility for Ethel, Vivian Vance, whom he had known before in live television and on the stage, and she was now appearing at the La Jolla Playhouse.

The La Jolla Playhouse was a summer theater run by Mel Ferrer, Gregory Peck and a few friends of theirs as an artistic endeavor, not really a commerical venture. I was anxious to see Miss Vance. For some reason or other I couldn't make it until Saturday night. Marc Daniels, Kenny Morgan, Don Sharpe and I drove to La Jolla to watch Miss Vance in "The Voice of the Turtle."

Vivian was playing the very sarcastic bitch in that play. It was not what you would call typecasting for Ethel. Nevertheless, right after I saw her do the first scene, I knew we had found Ethel.

She was such a wonderful actress, so honest. Every line, every reaction, every move she made was just perfect. I couldn't wait to get backstage and talk to her. I'm sure Marc had called her before and explained what we were doing and what the part was. But I had never met the lady. After the show, I went backstage, talked to her and signed her right there and then to play Ethel.

As we were driving back to Los Angeles---it was now early Sunday morning and we were to start rehearsing for the first I Love Lucy episode on the following Monday morning---lightning struck. "Oh my God, what have I done? Suppose Lucy doesn't like her? What the hell do I do then?"

I could have asked Miss Vance to come into the studio, read with us, meet Lucy and see how they got along, but I was so sure she was so right for the part of Ethel, I just didn't think of anything else but signing her for it.

I got home early Sunday morning and told Lucy we had found the perfect actress for Ethel.

"Who?" she asked.
"Vivian Vance," I answered.
"Who the hell is she?"
"No one you would know. I saw her at the La Jolla Playhouse tonight and she's such a good actress, so honest in everything she does, that I'm sure she will be wonderful with you."

Fortunately, it was love at first sight. When they met Monday morning and we all sat down and read together, it was just perfect. Another time I was very lucky.

We could have never found anyone to play Ethel any better or even was well as Vivian Vance did. She was great in the part. She "was" Ethel, or maybe I should put it this way: she was such a good actress that she made herself "become" Ethel.
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