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Old 09-14-2006, 01:11 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kadrmas15
I am not trying to get into something with you here but why do you think that? I mean if you are going to go around here saying he did it, put something on the table. As you can see above I along with Awsi and others have laid out things on the table saying why he didnt do it. I just have a hard time believing he did it, especially for the reason the prosecutors said he did it. They said he got mad because his daughter urinated on his side of the bed so he killed his wife and two daughters and then on top of that stabbed himself in the chest collapsing a lung? I dont think so.
Here you go... try this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_MacDonald

Pay particular note to the final paragraph on the DNA tests. The last sentence is loaded with grinning irony.

He did it. His story about Helena Stoeckley and the others was and still is a huge pile of bull. It was in 1970, 1979, and today. Always will be.
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Old 09-14-2006, 03:12 PM   #32
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"DNA test results released March 10, 2006, showed that neither Stoeckley's nor Mitchell's nor any other "intruder's" DNA matched that in any of the "crucial" exhibits chosen by the defense. The results also showed that the hair which MacDonald has repeatedly described as being "clutched" in Colette's hand and which he has claimed for 36 years could only have come from her murderer, was found to be his very own."

Well, well, well...
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Old 09-14-2006, 03:37 PM   #33
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"DNA test results released March 10, 2006, showed that neither Stoeckley's nor Mitchell's nor any other "intruder's" DNA matched that in any of the "crucial" exhibits chosen by the defense. The results also showed that the hair which MacDonald has repeatedly described as being "clutched" in Colette's hand and which he has claimed for 36 years could only have come from her murderer, was found to be his very own."

Well, well, well...
Yes indeedy... how's that for 'poetic justice'?
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Old 09-14-2006, 04:44 PM   #34
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Well I have read that article on MacDonald's DNA testing and other stuff before. I am still not convinced of his guilt. I have never said he for sure could not have done it, it is certainly possible. However I just personally dont think he did it and I have always thought the evidence was too circumstancial to convict him. I also believe that if he did do it, he didnt do it for the reasons the prosecution stated. I mean murdereing his whole family because his daughter peed on his side of the bed? Come on. Also if you read the wikipedia article carefully it says that the dna of Stoeckley and Mitchell was not found on the defense exhibits tested. This does not mean their dna or fingerprints were never in the residence. Furthermore the whole crime scene was tampered with by the government and the military police that were investigating it. The piece of hair that Colette was holding and that turning out to be MacDonald's is troubling. But I am still not convinced that he killed them and he should have never been convicted. That is what people forget sometimes is even if you think a person did something, if you are on that jury you have to acquit them if the prosecution cant prove their case. In this case they didnt prove it and MacDonald should have been acquitted. I still personally dont think he did it. It is certainly possible he did but the government case was very circumstancial.
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Old 09-14-2006, 04:59 PM   #35
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The 'motive' the prosecution used was ridiculous - I agree with you on that.

My belief is that he just wanted out. He wasn't happy being married and being a parent. He wanted to 'play around' - why did he have so many affairs and why did he lie about going to Russia? He may have looked happy on the surface but I think he had some resentment over the fact that he was essentially 'tied down'.

I read somewhere that Colette would berate him over his spending habits. He bought a new stereo not long before the murders and she just went off on him. Apparently, she had quite a temper.

So what happened on that cold and rainy February night? Did they have a huge fight? Was it over money? Or his philandering? Or did she catch him in one of his lies, perhaps? Did he lash out and kill her and the kids in a blind rage... a rage fueled by a combination of fatigue and his use of Eskatrol? Only Jeffrey knows and you can bet he will never tell. Then again, he doesn't have to...

The blood spoke for him. So did the DNA. Case closed.
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Old 09-14-2006, 05:40 PM   #36
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Eskatrol is a stimulant right? I believe it is used these days to treat ADHD. It is an amphetamine if I remember right. Well that wouldnt surprise me if Colette had a temper. She was a Long Island girl those New York women tend to be rather quick with their tempers. In his UM interview he said that him and Colette had purchased the new stereo together. He said they were financially comfortable for the first time ever. Is there any evidence he actually cheated on Colette? Well MacDonald had been married since he was around 20 and had been a father at 21. Being married and a parent and being a full time college student and then going to medical school full time on top of that had to be tough. However I dont really buy the he's guilty, case closed argument. It isnt a closed case. They didnt have the evidence. They didnt have it then and they dont have it now. The hair proves nothing except that Colette grabbed at MacDonald's hair. This could be because he was stabbing her and she was struggling with him as you said or it could be for another reason. However I dont buy the case closed he's guilty argument. I support Dr. MacDonald and I dont think he is guilty.
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Old 09-15-2006, 09:56 AM   #37
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Default Pathological liar...

I will let this speak for itself.

http://www.themacdonaldcase.com/html/mmt.html
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Old 09-15-2006, 12:48 PM   #38
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Well after reading that little piece I still havent changed my mind. It presents some good points, but while cheating on your wife and not paying much attention to her is not a good thing it doesnt mean that a man could brutally club his wife and children to death. After reading that if in fact the stuff that is said there is true, at most MacDonald is guilty of being an inattentive husband and father and a man who enjoyed getting around with other women. These things are nothing to brag about certainly but it doesnt necessarily make him a murderer. That is what bugged me about that site was because MacDonald was a womanizer and was a rather aloof husband and father that he must have automatically murdered his family. They also say other outrageous things like because MacDonald supposedly lied about having physical relations with his wife on a sports field that that automatically makes him a pathological liar. People could get the times of things screwed up. If he lied about it he lied about it, maybe he was trying to look daring or something who knows? As for him not recognizing his wife's wedding ring he probably isnt the only guy that wouldnt recognize the ring he gave his wife especially years after the fact. Like I have said, the governments case was very flimsy on MacDonald from the start. I would be curious to hear why you think he killed his family. Since you even agreed with me that the governments reason for MacDonald killing his family, because his daughter had wet the bed, was crap. MacDonald either should have been acquitted or had the charges dropped against him. This seems to me to have been more the need of his in-laws to pin the rap on someone and because they were angry with MacDonald because he had moved on with his life and was living a rich lifestyle out in California he was a convinenent person to pin the rap on.
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Old 09-15-2006, 01:33 PM   #39
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The physical evidence points to Mac as the killer. There was no DNA from both Helena Stoeckley and Greg Mitchell. NONE.

The blood evidence and the pyjama top evidence also point to Mac being the killer.

The wax that was found in the house from Helena Stoeckley's candles turned out to be old wax that had been dried for a long time. How do we know this? The wax found had significant amounts of debris on top of it as if it was there for a long time. It wasn't placed there recently. Also, the wax found in the children's bedroom was determined to have come from birthday candles.

Aside from the actual evidence... think about these:

Why would Colette say "Jeff, Jeff, why are THEY doing this to me?!" Come on, does that really make any sense? Much more likely that she was saying "Jeff, Jeff, why are YOU doing this to me?!"

Why would the girls be screaming "Daddy, Daddy, Daddy!" if they were being attacked by 'intruders'? Most children would cry out for their MOMMY, would they not? However, if Jeffrey was attacking their mother then it would make sense for them to cry out "Daddy!" out of fear.

Wanna talk about 'motive'? What motive did these 'intruders' have? Why the good doctor and his family? And why was he left alive with only a few scratches (intensive care, my ass! ) while his family was 'overkilled'?

Jeffrey claims to have seen four intruders while laying on the couch while his family was being attacked. That means that there must have been AT LEAST one other person in either the master bedroom or the children's bedroom, right? If there was no other person there and all the 'intruders' were in the living room 'attacking' Jeffrey then why was there screaming coming from those other rooms? Who was there?

Related to the above... if there were a minimum of FIVE 'intruders' in the house IN ADDITION to the good doctor and his family then why was there so little damage to the apartment and its furnishings? Like Joe Grebner said... "I've seen all night poker parties that caused much more damage to a room."

And how about this one: Jeffrey lied through his teeth when he told Freddy Kassab that he apprehended and killed one of the assailants! Amazing! Well, Freddy knew that was a lie and it was the lie that set him off to discover the truth. Poor Jeff... he just couldn't keep his ego in check and his mouth shut.

The point is that Jeffrey's story just doesn't add up.

Bottom line: Jeffrey R. MacDonald is a murderer. He may be able to fool lots of people out there with his charisma but some of us can see right through his pathetic charade. The case has been solved. He will spend the rest of his life behind bars. No new trials. No parole. Nothing. Period.
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Old 09-15-2006, 02:37 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyeTev
Here you go... try this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_MacDonald

Pay particular note to the final paragraph on the DNA tests. The last sentence is loaded with grinning irony.

He did it. His story about Helena Stoeckley and the others was and still is a huge pile of bull. It was in 1970, 1979, and today. Always will be.
Yeah, but it's important to remember that Wikipedia can be edited by anyone. I'm not sure where I'm at when it comes to Dr. McDonald, but it's one of the more intriguing cases I have seen on UM.

Here's an interesting counterpoint for you, though....
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Old 09-15-2006, 02:54 PM   #41
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Yeah, but it's important to remember that Wikipedia can be edited by anyone. I'm not sure where I'm at when it comes to Dr. McDonald, but it's one of the more intriguing cases I have seen on UM.

Here's an interesting counterpoint for you, though....
That article was published about two weeks after the DNA results were released. The evidence showed that neither Stoeckley nor Mitchell were ever in the house.

People can say what they want, they can devise all sorts of stories, but the evidence speaks for itself and it has contradicted what those people have said.

**********

* The late Helena Stoeckley, a Haymount girl, did run with the hippie-cult generation and reportedly told prosecutor James Blackburn that she was in MacDonald’s home the night of the murders.

The DNA evidence says otherwise.

* Jimmy B. Britt of Apex, who was part of the security detail for MacDonald’s 1979 trial, substantiates her claims and says in a recent affidavit that he heard Blackburn tell Stoeckley that he would indict her for murder if she testified that she and her friends were in the MacDonald home on the night of killings. Blackburn denies Britt’s assertion.

It doesn't matter what Stoeckley said - the evidence demonstrates that she wasn't there.

* Donald Buffkin from Alabama says in a recent affidavit file by MacDonald’s lawyers that he once drank with Greg Mitchell, Stoeckley’s boyfriend, and that Mitchell told him he killed MacDonald’s family. He reportedly wrote on a farmhouse near Fayetteville, “I killed MacDonald’s wife and children,” before his 1982 death because of liver disease.

Greg Mitchells' DNA was not found in the house.

* The late Judge Franklin Dupree was the presiding judge, including hearing all appeals, until 1990. In his rejections of appeals, he declared there was no evidence of intruders in the MacDonald home.

And the Judge was correct - there was no evidence of 'intruders' in the home. His rejections were correct.

* James Proctor, a co-prosecutor, was Dupree’s son-in-law.

What does that prove? Does it prove Mac is innocent? Sorry, doesn't work... juries are only allowed to utilise the evidence in the case - not imagined 'conspiracy theories'.

* James Blackburn, a co-prosecutor, was convicted of 12 felony counts of forgery, fraud, embezzlement and obstruction of justice in November 1993. He was sentenced to a seven-year sentence in federal prison and served about 31 months.

True, but what does any of that have to do with the MacDonald case?
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Old 09-15-2006, 03:07 PM   #42
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Default Statement analysis... interesting.

And yet more ammunition against Mac...

http://www.statementanalysis.com/macdonald/
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Old 09-15-2006, 05:28 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyeTev
Why would Colette say "Jeff, Jeff, why are THEY doing this to me?!" Come on, does that really make any sense? Much more likely that she was saying "Jeff, Jeff, why are YOU doing this to me?!"

Why would the girls be screaming "Daddy, Daddy, Daddy!" if they were being attacked by 'intruders'? Most children would cry out for their MOMMY, would they not? However, if Jeffrey was attacking their mother then it would make sense for them to cry out "Daddy!" out of fear.

Wanna talk about 'motive'? What motive did these 'intruders' have? Why the good doctor and his family? And why was he left alive with only a few scratches (intensive care, my ass! ) while his family was 'overkilled'?
HyeTev, so you know EXACTLY what the wife and daughters would have been saying, huh? That's pretty much the caliber I expect of the anti-MacDonald crew. I tell you what, why don't you give us the dialogue word for word for the entire day, including breakfast. Let me get this straight, you reject everything MacDonald claims about that evening, but you are accepting his account of the wife's pleas word for word, except you change just enough to make him the obvious perpretator.

In a previous post you provided rank speculation, another constant treat from the anti-MacDonald group. Something about a stereo. Spending habits. Tied down. Wasn't happy being married and a parent. A huge fight. Money. Lies. Philandering. Eskatrol. Fatigue. Blind rage. What is this, like tennis, best 3 out of 5?

What motive did the intruders have? Earth to HyeTev, how many UM segments have you watched? If I started listing crimes from total strangers that didn't have a sensible motive I'd be here through October.

A few scratches? It's always particularly revealing when someone makes a rank ignorant comment then applies a smilie to it. It's almost like you are determined to do what you accuse MacDonald of, slash yourself. Here, I think Cyril Wecht has a slightly more informed opinion than yours: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...14/lkl.01.html

"Jeffrey MacDonald had multiple stab wounds, a couple in the abdomen, the forearm, one into the chest that did produce a pneumothorax. He was in the hospital for seven days. To say that because he was a doctor, he can calculate exactly the depth of the penetrating wound and be sure that he will survive that, that is absurd. No doctor, including a thoracic surgeon, is going to undertake that kind of a situation."

And once again there's the amazing question, why were MacDonald's injuries different. I've already addressed that in a previous post. Does the phrase caliber of opponent mean anything to you? Are you actually equating the resistance from little girls or a sleeping wife to that of a young military man at his physical peak? If it weren't repeated so often I'd swear it had to be a joke. Scary. Why are some college football teams favored by 40 and others an underdog, against the same opponent? Jeez, I can't figure it out. Isn't every team the same?

The hair found in Colette's hand was a limb hair, not a head hair. MacDonald gave her mouth-to-mouth resuscitation and was lying on the left side of Colette's body when he was resuscitated himself. It's hardly a shock that his limb hair could be on her body.

On the other hand, the hair found under Kristen's fingernail does not match Dr. MacDonald. It had a full root and is unsourced. Make no mistake, that hair was considered much more significant by the prosecution. They tried to test it secretly and would have been absolutely giddy if it matched MacDonald, coming from under the fingernail of his daughter, who was in a defensive pose. But since it didn't match MacDonald they downplay it and try to shift focus to the limb hair.

There were unmatched black fibers that were on the murder weapon and on Colette, which are consistent with the third party theory along with the long blonde wig hair. Why are the MacDonald detractors so petrifed of a new trial? One where the new DNA evidence can be put forward along with everything suppressed by the original prosecutors, before they had all those unfortunate charges like embezzlement and obstruction of justice

LooksLikeCRicci provided an excellent link, regarding hippies being seen in a 7-11 the morning of the murders but the clerk afraid to come forward in fear they would kill her. Here's a bit more from that link:

* The late Helena Stoeckley, a Haymount girl, did run with the hippie-cult generation and reportedly told prosecutor James Blackburn that she was in MacDonald’s home the night of the murders.

* Jimmy B. Britt of Apex, who was part of the security detail for MacDonald’s 1979 trial, substantiates her claims and says in a recent affidavit that he heard Blackburn tell Stoeckley that he would indict her for murder if she testified that she and her friends were in the MacDonald home on the night of killings. Blackburn denies Britt’s assertion.

* Donald Buffkin from Alabama says in a recent affidavit file by MacDonald’s lawyers that he once drank with Greg Mitchell, Stoeckley’s boyfriend, and that Mitchell told him he killed MacDonald’s family. He reportedly wrote on a farmhouse near Fayetteville, “I killed MacDonald’s wife and children,” before his 1982 death because of liver disease.

* The late Judge Franklin Dupree was the presiding judge, including hearing all appeals, until 1990. In his rejections of appeals, he declared there was no evidence of intruders in the MacDonald home. James Proctor, a co-prosecutor, was Dupree’s son-in-law.

* James Blackburn, a co-prosecutor, was convicted of 12 felony counts of forgery, fraud, embezzlement and obstruction of justice in November 1993. He was sentenced to a seven-year sentence in federal prison and served about 31 months.

Some of that has already been mentioned in this thread. And I'll default to what I've written previously. MacDonald would not have invented such a wild tale involving many people if he were guilty. Far too many permutations to remember and be questioned about. Plus, if he was going to invent that large of a group, why wouldn't he smash up the residence to make it look like 4 or 5 crazy people had been there? It's hysterical the anti-MacDonald group insist he was plotting and concealing to the point he resorts to self-inflicted stab wounds, but he never thinks of trashing the place. Again, truth is stranger than fiction. Like the Ramseys, make sure you are the victim of a normal crime, otherwise the lousy handicappers get involved and the truth is anything they want to twist or invent.
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Old 09-15-2006, 06:07 PM   #44
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That article was published about two weeks after the DNA results were released. The evidence showed that neither Stoeckley nor Mitchell were ever in the house.
Oh really? Is that what DNA evidence shows? So, if none of my dad's DNA is found in my house, it proves he was never here?

See what I mean about incompetent handicapping? It's incredible what people actually believe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HyeTev
And the Judge was correct - there was no evidence of 'intruders' in the home. His rejections were correct.
Hmm. More clever assertions. What do you call the hair with full root under Kristen's fingernail, the one that doesn't match MacDonald? How about the 22-inch wig fiber that was suppressed by the prosecution and doesn't match anything anything Colette owned, but does fit with the decription of the female hippie? The unmatched black fibers that were on the murder weapon and on Colette?

BTW, I'm not sure it has been mentioned in this thread that the MacDonald residence was sealed for more than a decade, then gutted and the contents burned and destroyed in 1984. Defense investigators were never allowed access to look for exculpatory evidence.
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Old 09-15-2006, 08:50 PM   #45
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Hey good posts Awsi. Yeah, I guess I just dont like it when people say MacDonald did it, he is guilty, case closed. I mean anyone has the right to think MacDonald did it, fine if you think he did it, bring the evidence that he did it. What was the motive? I never have and never will buy the motive that he murdered his entire family because his daughter peed on his side of the bed. I have stated the reasons why I think he is innocent over and over again. The fact of the matter is the government didnt do their job and prove that MacDonald murdered his family. They have to prove that and they didnt yet MacDonald was convicted anyway. MacDonald should be able to launch a new appeal and be free on bond while he is on appeal. The late Judge Dupree should have been removed from this case long before he retired. It was obvious Dupree and his son in law had conflicts of interest due to their personal dislike of Dr. MacDonald. The prosecutor in this case also was a scumbag. Was the one that went to prison the one that was interviewed in the UM segment?
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