Sitcoms Online - Main Page / Message Boards - Main Page / News Blog / Photo Galleries / DVD Reviews / Buy TV Shows on DVD and Blu-ray

View Today's Active Threads / View New Posts / Mark All Boards Read / Chit Chat Board

Games / Movies / Music / Sports / Random Posts / Politics


Sitcoms Online Message Boards - Forums  

Go Back   Sitcoms Online Message Boards - Forums > Chit Chat

Notices

SitcomsOnline.com News Blog Headlines Twitter Facebook Instagram RSS

Rugrats Revived on Nickelodeon; Vanilla Ice Project Returns Aug. 11
Guests Line Up for Caroline Rhea Series; UnREAL Season 4 Premieres on Hulu
Celebrities Get Animated on Animal Planet; Freeform Drama Pilot Underway
Sitcom Stars on Talk Shows; This Week in Sitcoms (Week of July 16, 2018)
SitcomsOnline Digest: Game of Thrones Leads Emmy Nominations; New Beverly Hillbillies DVDs Coming in October
Fri-Yay: What Was the Best Decade for Sitcoms?; The 70th Primetime Emmy Awards Nominations
Netflix Gets Christina Applegate Comedy; South Park Returns Sept. 26 for Season 22


New on DVD/Blu-ray (June/July)

New Girl - The Complete Seventh Season Alice - The Complete Seventh Season Green Acres - The Final (Sixth) Season The Last Man on Earth - The Complete Fourth Season The Good Place - The Complete Second Season

06/05 - Living Single - The Complete Fifth Season
06/05 - New Girl - The Complete Sixth Season
06/05 - South Park - The Complete Twenty-First Season (Blu-ray)
06/12 - Fresh Off the Boat - The Complete Fourth Season
06/12 - Life in Pieces - The Complete Third Season
06/12 - The Office - The Complete Series
06/12 - Speechless - The Complete First Season
06/12 - Speechless - The Complete Second Season
06/12 - Step by Step - The Complete First Season
06/12 - Will & Grace (The Revival) - Season One (Blu-ray)
06/19 - Perfect Strangers - The Complete Fourth Season
06/26 - Last Man Standing - The Complete Fifth Season
06/26 - Last Man Standing - The Complete Sixth Season
06/26 - The Mick - The Complete First Season
06/26 - The Mick - The Complete Second Season
07/03 - New Girl - The Final (Seventh) Season
07/10 - Alice - The Complete Seventh Season (WBShop.com)
07/10 - The Bill Engvall Show - The Complete First Season (WBShop.com)
07/10 - Green Acres - The Final (Sixth) Season
07/10 - The Last Man on Earth - The Complete Fourth Season
07/17 - Cooper Barrett's Guide to Surviving Life - The Complete Series
07/17 - The Good Place - The Complete Second Season
07/17 - Son of Zorn - The Complete Series
More TV DVD Releases / DVD Reviews Archive / SitcomsOnline Digest


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-04-2009, 01:12 AM   #286
Fleet
Mansions, limousines & H-ween
Forum Veteran
 
Fleet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 06, 2002
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, California
Posts: 15,215
Send a message via AIM to Fleet
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PZelda
You DO know that the good 'ole US of A doesn't have an official language, right?
Hopefully, that can be put on the ballot (English being the official language) and it would probably pass.
It is obvious that English is the unofficial language and every immigrant who wants to be a U.S. citizen should learn English. If I moved to another non-English speaking country, I would take the time and effort to learn that country's language.
__________________
1976 Cadillac Fleetwood Seventy-Five Limousine.
Fleet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2009, 01:14 AM   #287
Fleet
Mansions, limousines & H-ween
Forum Veteran
 
Fleet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 06, 2002
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, California
Posts: 15,215
Send a message via AIM to Fleet
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JT
Your grandmother taught herself sufficient English in a couple of days? More power to her, but most people aren't able to do that.
What is with all the silly posts in this thread?
Of course she didn't learn English in a few days. The point is that she did learn it, as should everyone who wants to become a U.S. citizen.

There is no excuse not to. There are free classes which teach English.
Fleet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2009, 01:20 AM   #288
Fleet
Mansions, limousines & H-ween
Forum Veteran
 
Fleet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 06, 2002
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, California
Posts: 15,215
Send a message via AIM to Fleet
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JT
I'm not refuting the study, I'm just hypothesizing why those results are what they are. My point is that there is nothing about marijuana itself that makes it a gateway drug. There is nothing in the chemical make-up of marijuana that has been found to lead to the use of harder drugs, and therefore, the connection between marijuana use and the use of other drugs has less to do with the drug itself than it has to do with society and the stigma society has imposed on it. I feel that they could have replaced marijuana with any other illegal drug, and the results would have been close to the same. No proof, no evidence; they haven't done that experiment yet.
Lol. You just can't accept data and statistics! Maybe you should tell the thousands of people who became drug addicts due to marijuana that "there is nothing in the chemical make up that has found to lead to the use of harder drugs!" I think you have trouble accepting the fact that marijuana is not the "harmless" drug that the potheads think it is.

Quote:
As for alcohol, yes, I will mention it when I feel like it. This is a thread about the legalization of one mind-altering drug, so forgive me for talking about the legalization of another mind-altering drug.
No, alcohol is not classified as a mind-altering drug. Because many people can have a one or two beers and not be under the influence. Not so with marijuana.
Fleet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2009, 01:26 AM   #289
Dutabi84
kittens must die
Forum Veteran
 
Dutabi84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 22, 2003
Location: MN/TX
Posts: 11,019
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet
The last few links I posted show just how ridiculous your post is.

Marijuana is indeed a gateway drug for many (too many) people. The facts and statistics show that, no matter how much try to deny it.
No, they don't.

First of all, the latest study you've posted was done on those who used marijuana before the age of 17. Guess what, Fleet? I'm against children using marijuana. The idea isn't to allow children to use it, and legalizing it with strict regulation won't make it more likely that kids use it than they already do. It would be just as illegal for them to use it, and just as illegal for someone of age to distribute it to them.

Quote:
"The researchers found that among those who used marijuana before age 17, the odds of using other drugs increased. For instance, the odds of sedative use tripled, opioid use more than doubled, and hallucinogen use increased fivefold compared with twins who either never used marijuana or used the drug only after age 17."
Quote:
"In addition, when youngsters begin using marijuana at an early age, over time they may have increased exposure to drug dealers and other drugs."
Whoops. Looks like it can be a gateway...because it's illegal.

Quote:
Although the association between early marijuana use and later drug use and abuse emerged in the study findings, Lynskey emphasized that "the majority of those who use cannabis at an early age did not go on to abuse or become dependent on other drugs."
Again, just like your previous "studies," all they find is an association. "Wow, such a high percentage of people who have used cocaine, have also used marijuana." Gee, you don't think that maybe it has something to do with the fact marijuana can grow virtually anywhere, and doesn't require adding any chemicals whereas Cocaine is generally manufactured in Columbia, and requires adding all kinds of chemicals, and as a result is generally a pain in the ass to make, and an even bigger pain in the ass to distribute?

Similar could be said about other hard drugs. Though not to the extent that cocaine is, drugs like heroin and meth have to be manufactured, and are exponentially more rare and hard to find than a natural plant (marijuana).

The simple reality here, is that those who have tried cocaine before are overwhelmingly likely to have used marijuana. If someone has the carelessness to experiment with dangerous drugs like coke, heroine, and meth, the odds are they won't give a rip about using something like pot. They didn't "graduate," they simply have some kind of problem (uneducated, careless, etc).

I'll go ahead and say this for a 4th time, just so you can conveniently ignore it for a 4th time:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutabi84
Comparing marijuana to caffeine was only to make a point. By saying that "it took the 40th person to say he didn't start using hard drugs after he used marijuana," you're implying that if someone smokes marijuana, they're likely to start using dangerous drugs. You're trying to equate correlation with causation, which is a logial fallacy. And this is why I said these people probably also used caffeine before they used any other drugs. Sound ridiculous? Of course it does, just as your "evidence" that marijuana is a gateway drug.
I also get a kick out of you completely ignoring how I put your other study to rest by using a little something you like to call "facts and statistics."

Quote:
The primary basis for this "gateway hypothesis" is a recent report by the center on Addiction and Substance Abuse (CASA), claiming that marijuana users are 85 times more likely than non-marijuana users to try cocaine. This figure, using data from NIDA's 1991 National Household Survey on Drug Abuse, is close to being meaningless. It was calculated by dividing the proportion of marijuana users who have ever used cocaine (17%) by the proportion of cocaine users who have never used marijuana (.2%). The high risk-factor obtained is a product not of the fact that so many marijuana users use cocaine but that so many cocaine users used marijuana previously.
Dutabi84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2009, 01:29 AM   #290
Dutabi84
kittens must die
Forum Veteran
 
Dutabi84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 22, 2003
Location: MN/TX
Posts: 11,019
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet
Oh, so now marijuana is not a mind-altering drug?
Nice attempt at a straw man, but I didn't suggest that anywhere. Altering the mind isn't limited to confusion and lack of awareness.
Dutabi84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2009, 01:44 AM   #291
Dutabi84
kittens must die
Forum Veteran
 
Dutabi84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 22, 2003
Location: MN/TX
Posts: 11,019
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet
No, alcohol is not classified as a mind-altering drug. Because many people can have a one or two beers and not be under the influence. Not so with marijuana.
Yes, alcohol IS a mind-altering drug. It alters the mind more so than marijuana. How can one have "one or two marijuanas"...or whatever you're suggesting? How do you know what quantities of each to compare?

One can put a tiny bit of marijuana in their system, and it would have virtually no effect. Just like alcohol. The more of each you intake, the more altered your mind is. It doesn't appear that common sense is one of your strengths.
Dutabi84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2009, 01:57 AM   #292
Fleet
Mansions, limousines & H-ween
Forum Veteran
 
Fleet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 06, 2002
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, California
Posts: 15,215
Send a message via AIM to Fleet
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutabi84
Nice attempt at a straw man, but I didn't suggest that anywhere. Altering the mind isn't limited to confusion and lack of awareness.
Do go on with your bogus denials!
Fleet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2009, 01:59 AM   #293
Fleet
Mansions, limousines & H-ween
Forum Veteran
 
Fleet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 06, 2002
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, California
Posts: 15,215
Send a message via AIM to Fleet
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutabi84
Yes, alcohol IS a mind-altering drug. It alters the mind more so than marijuana. How can one have "one or two marijuanas"...or whatever you're suggesting? How do you know what quantities of each to compare?

One can put a tiny bit of marijuana in their system, and it would have virtually no effect. Just like alcohol. The more of each you intake, the more altered your mind is. It doesn't appear that common sense is one of your strengths.
LOL! This thread is getting hilarious! So now alcohol is more of a mind-altering drug than marijuana?
Fleet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2009, 01:59 AM   #294
Dutabi84
kittens must die
Forum Veteran
 
Dutabi84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 22, 2003
Location: MN/TX
Posts: 11,019
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet
Do go on with your bogus denials!
...wtf? Then quote me where I said it doesn't alter the mind.
Dutabi84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2009, 02:03 AM   #295
Dutabi84
kittens must die
Forum Veteran
 
Dutabi84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 22, 2003
Location: MN/TX
Posts: 11,019
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet
LOL! This thread is getting hilarious! So now alcohol is more of a mind-altering drug than marijuana?
You're nuts. They both alter the mind differently. They're different drugs. When it comes to severity, alcohol does more to the mind. How often do you hear about people going on violent rampages and hitting their wife, kids, etc, after smoking pot, compared to alcohol?
Dutabi84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2009, 02:06 AM   #296
Fleet
Mansions, limousines & H-ween
Forum Veteran
 
Fleet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 06, 2002
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, California
Posts: 15,215
Send a message via AIM to Fleet
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutabi84
No, they don't.

First of all, the latest study you've posted was done on those who used marijuana before the age of 17. Guess what, Fleet? I'm against children using marijuana. The idea isn't to allow children to use it, and legalizing it with strict regulation won't make it more likely that kids use it than they already do. It would be just as illegal for them to use it, and just as illegal for someone of age to distribute it to them.

Whoops. Looks like it can be a gateway...because it's illegal.

Again, just like your previous "studies," all they find is an association. "Wow, such a high percentage of people who have used cocaine, have also used marijuana." Gee, you don't think that maybe it has something to do with the fact marijuana can grow virtually anywhere, and doesn't require adding any chemicals whereas Cocaine is generally manufactured in Columbia, and requires adding all kinds of chemicals, and as a result is generally a pain in the ass to make, and an even bigger pain in the ass to distribute?

Similar could be said about other hard drugs. Though not to the extent that cocaine is, drugs like heroin and meth have to be manufactured, and are exponentially more rare and hard to find than a natural plant (marijuana).

The simple reality here, is that those who have tried cocaine before are overwhelmingly likely to have used marijuana. If someone has the carelessness to experiment with dangerous drugs like coke, heroine, and meth, the odds are they won't give a rip about using something like pot. They didn't "graduate," they simply have some kind of problem (uneducated, careless, etc).

I'll go ahead and say this for a 4th time, just so you can conveniently ignore it for a 4th time:

I also get a kick out of you completely ignoring how I put your other study to rest by using a little something you like to call "facts and statistics."
Your refusal to accept data and statistics is amazing. Both of those agree with me, not you.
I knew it would be a waste of time posting links.

Would you accept the results if a scientific study by the Journal of the American Medical Association proved that marijuana is not a gateway drug?
Fleet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2009, 02:11 AM   #297
JT
Member
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 29, 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 7,123
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet
What is with all the silly posts in this thread?
Of course she didn't learn English in a few days. The point is that she did learn it, as should everyone who wants to become a U.S. citizen.

There is no excuse not to. There are free classes which teach English.
Well then why did you bring up your grandmother? I never said that people can't/shouldn't have to learn English. I said that they can't do it in just a couple of days, and apparently, you agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JT
What are they supposed to do until they learn English, then? I mean, you don't pick up a language in just a couple of days. It takes time and devotion, especially when you've been speaking another language your whole life, and so what are they supposed to do in the mean time?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet
Many people have, including my grandmother. She learned to speak English, self-taught.
"Many people have" what? What is that in response to? Why is any of that relevant?
JT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2009, 02:16 AM   #298
Dutabi84
kittens must die
Forum Veteran
 
Dutabi84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 22, 2003
Location: MN/TX
Posts: 11,019
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet
Your refusal to accept data and statistics is amazing. Both of those agree with me, not you.
I knew it would be a waste of time posting links.

Would you accept the results if a scientific study by the Journal of the American Medical Association proved that marijuana is not a gateway drug?

You know, I could just say the same exact thing you said, word for word.

I don't use a source as a main factor in judging studies and statistics. Logic needs to be applied to anything, no matter the source.
Dutabi84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2009, 02:20 AM   #299
JT
Member
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 29, 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 7,123
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet
Lol. You just can't accept data and statistics! Maybe you should tell the thousands of people who became drug addicts due to marijuana that "there is nothing in the chemical make up that has found to lead to the use of harder drugs!" I think you have trouble accepting the fact that marijuana is not the "harmless" drug that the potheads think it is.
Okay. Show me something that says that there is something in the chemical make-up of marijuana that makes it the "gateway" drug. You can't because it's not true. What you're insinuating is that there is some chemical or whatever in marijuana that forces you to use cocaine, heroin, etc. That's simply not true. Your study proves that many marijuana users (still not most, though) go on to use other drugs, but it proves absolutely nothing in the way of defining why those users went on to other drugs. That's what I'm talking about.

The reasons why so many marijuana users go on to other drugs has nothing to do with marijuana itself. There isn't some chemical in marijuana that makes you think it's okay to try cocaine or heroin or whatever. It is psychological and sociological. Marijuana is a "gateway" drug because society has made it a gateway drug. If it were legal, it wouldn't be a "gateway" drug. This is all my opinion, mind you, but I think that it has a strong psychological/sociological basis.

Quote:
No, alcohol is not classified as a mind-altering drug. Because many people can have a one or two beers and not be under the influence. Not so with marijuana.
Wrong terminology, so I stand corrected. However, I do not see why alcohol, a drug, should be kept out of this conversation, and so I'm not going to make any effort to refrain from bringing it up.
JT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2009, 05:43 AM   #300
Fleet
Mansions, limousines & H-ween
Forum Veteran
 
Fleet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 06, 2002
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, California
Posts: 15,215
Send a message via AIM to Fleet
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JT
Okay. Show me something that says that there is something in the chemical make-up of marijuana that makes it the "gateway" drug. You can't because it's not true. What you're insinuating is that there is some chemical or whatever in marijuana that forces you to use cocaine, heroin, etc. That's simply not true. Your study proves that many marijuana users (still not most, though) go on to use other drugs, but it proves absolutely nothing in the way of defining why those users went on to other drugs. That's what I'm talking about.

The reasons why so many marijuana users go on to other drugs has nothing to do with marijuana itself. There isn't some chemical in marijuana that makes you think it's okay to try cocaine or heroin or whatever. It is psychological and sociological. Marijuana is a "gateway" drug because society has made it a gateway drug. If it were legal, it wouldn't be a "gateway" drug. This is all my opinion, mind you, but I think that it has a strong psychological/sociological basis.
It's not what's in marijuana that makes users go onto other drugs. It's what's not in it. I don't have to hunt for statistics to explain why many marijuana users go up the drug ladder. This is where common sense enters the picture.
People using marijuana, which is made from the drug THC, go onto other drugs because they want to get higher. After a while, marijuana isn't potent enough, so they move onto stronger, more dangerous drugs. The gateway effect. Making it legal wouldn't change any of that and would only make the situation worse.
Fleet is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:36 PM.


Although the administrators and moderators of the Sitcoms Online Message Boards will attempt to keep all objectionable messages off this forum, it is impossible for us to review all messages. All messages express the views of the author, and neither the owners of the Sitcoms Online Message Boards, nor vBulletin Solutions Inc. (developers of vBulletin) will be held responsible for the content of any message. The owners of the Sitcoms Online Message Boards reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason.

VigLink badge

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.