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Old 03-29-2017, 10:14 AM   #91
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I believe the first half of the story but then I always question his "friend" Samuel C. Carroll's story about taking him outside.

If that really happened and Kurt really wandered off, I think that: A. his body would have been discovered the next day rather than 5 days later and B. it would have been able to discount the story that Angeline Reddicks and her husband saw two males carrying another male towards the area where Kurt's body was found shortly before Halloween.

As it is, I don't think Carroll's story of taking him outside and Sova wandering off (or someone picking him up) is true.
I mention this in the podcast, but one aspect of Samuel's story which has never rang true to me is him going inside to grab Kurt's jacket. When the Sovas visited the duplex days later, they found Kurt's jacket there, but why wouldn't Samuel take the jacket with him when he left?
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Old 03-29-2017, 02:18 PM   #92
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I mention this in the podcast, but one aspect of Samuel's story which has never rang true to me is him going inside to grab Kurt's jacket. When the Sovas visited the duplex days later, they found Kurt's jacket there, but why wouldn't Samuel take the jacket with him when he left?
agreed

I believe Carroll began lying from the point of when Kurt started getting drunk/sick on that third floor to the point of when his body was publically discovered.

Last edited by Steve W.; 03-30-2017 at 12:01 AM.
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Old 03-29-2017, 09:18 PM   #93
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Agree with you Steve.
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Old 03-29-2017, 09:38 PM   #94
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So I've been discussing this case on Reddit today and a few people have shared some personal experiences about Everclear. I found these quotes pretty interesting and they might shed some light on Kurt's exact cause of death...

"We used to have everclear parties in high school. My husbands friend gave himself alcohol poisoning and 'slept it off' in an RV behind my in law's house for almost three days. He was basically in a coma but no one knew he was in there. After about two and a half days, friend wakes up,crawls out of rv, pisses copious amounts of bloody urine and passes back out. Mother in law comes home and finds him, calls parents who take him home to sleep more."

"This got me thinking. Years ago I was in a coma in the woods alone for 3 days before I was found. During my time out there, I developed a condition called Rhabdomyolysis. It's a condition where skeletal muscle starts to break down rapidly. It can cause brown or reddish urine. It can cause acute kidney failure. Two of the causes of rhabdo are excess alcohol consumption and prolonged immobility.

This is just a thought, and maybe I'm way off. But an alcohol induced coma coupled with a few days of not moving could trigger rhabdo, and acute kidney failure could be cause of death.

During the autopsy, would they look for rhabdo or kidney failure in a case like this? Also, this took place in the 80's and I have no idea how sophisticated their testing was back then."
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Old 03-30-2017, 12:04 AM   #95
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So I've been discussing this case on Reddit today and a few people have shared some personal experiences about Everclear. I found these quotes pretty interesting and they might shed some light on Kurt's exact cause of death...

"We used to have everclear parties in high school. My husbands friend gave himself alcohol poisoning and 'slept it off' in an RV behind my in law's house for almost three days. He was basically in a coma but no one knew he was in there. After about two and a half days, friend wakes up,crawls out of rv, pisses copious amounts of bloody urine and passes back out. Mother in law comes home and finds him, calls parents who take him home to sleep more."

"This got me thinking. Years ago I was in a coma in the woods alone for 3 days before I was found. During my time out there, I developed a condition called Rhabdomyolysis. It's a condition where skeletal muscle starts to break down rapidly. It can cause brown or reddish urine. It can cause acute kidney failure. Two of the causes of rhabdo are excess alcohol consumption and prolonged immobility.

This is just a thought, and maybe I'm way off. But an alcohol induced coma coupled with a few days of not moving could trigger rhabdo, and acute kidney failure could be cause of death.

During the autopsy, would they look for rhabdo or kidney failure in a case like this? Also, this took place in the 80's and I have no idea how sophisticated their testing was back then."
good find

It seems very possible. Sova's BAC could have continued to drop from the time he (hypothetically) fell unconscious until the moment that he actually died, correct?
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Old 03-30-2017, 06:21 AM   #96
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I mention this in the podcast, but one aspect of Samuel's story which has never rang true to me is him going inside to grab Kurt's jacket. When the Sovas visited the duplex days later, they found Kurt's jacket there, but why wouldn't Samuel take the jacket with him when he left?
Agreed about Samuel, though I think his whole story is a lie. I'm sure he went there with Kurt but that was it. Kurt was able to disappear in the midst of the night while completely intoxicated, while he spent 10 seconds getting his jacket? How? He couldn't even stand up when he took him outside, but he could make a dash for it? Lies.

People tend to overthink this case. Kurt drunk/smoked too much, overdosed or lapsed into a coma, everyone at the party made up a story together, then threw him in the ravine.

His buddy Sammy is obviously lying.
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Old 03-30-2017, 06:22 AM   #97
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good find

It seems very possible. Sova's BAC could have continued to drop from the time he (hypothetically) fell unconscious until the moment that he actually died, correct?
Correct. In fact, someone else on Reddit chimed in and made this post to explain how Kurt's BAC should have dropped if the time of death was correct...

"His autopsy showed a 0.11% blood alcohol level. Which means he was still drinking close to when he died, OR he had a ridiculously high level to start with and the 0.11% is what he was at by that point.

The body loses 0.015% blood alcohol level per hour. So, a minimal "drunk" amount of 0.08% to leave the body would take approximately 5.5 hours.
The party was on October 23. His body was found October 28, and he had been dead for around 24-36 hours. Which means he had about 120 hours worth of time for the alcohol to leave his system. Which means his blood alcohol level would have had to be close to 1.91% at the start of the day on the 23rd.

A fatal blood alcohol level is 0.4%. He would have been in a coma on the night of the 23rd, and most likely dead before the 25th. It doesnt make sense with his time of death to have just drank too much at Susan's party. Also, to reach a BAC of 1.91%, he would have had to have drank two straight bottles of that Everclear in a very short amount of time. Possible, but it would have killed him far sooner than he actually died.

Edit: This doesnt take into account how fast alcohol leaves the body in abnormal circumstances (ie. i am uncertain if being in a coma from alcohol poisoning causes it to leave the body at a different rate). But regardless, if alcohol poisoning at Susan's party on the 23rd was his cause of death, he would have been dead far sooner than the 36 hours his body was stated in the autopsy."
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Old 03-30-2017, 06:26 AM   #98
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Correct. In fact, someone else on Reddit chimed in and made this post to explain how Kurt's BAC should have dropped if the time of death was correct...

"His autopsy showed a 0.11% blood alcohol level. Which means he was still drinking close to when he died, OR he had a ridiculously high level to start with and the 0.11% is what he was at by that point.

The body loses 0.015% blood alcohol level per hour. So, a minimal "drunk" amount of 0.08% to leave the body would take approximately 5.5 hours.
The party was on October 23. His body was found October 28, and he had been dead for around 24-36 hours. Which means he had about 120 hours worth of time for the alcohol to leave his system. Which means his blood alcohol level would have had to be close to 1.91% at the start of the day on the 23rd.

A fatal blood alcohol level is 0.4%. He would have been in a coma on the night of the 23rd, and most likely dead before the 25th. It doesnt make sense with his time of death to have just drank too much at Susan's party. Also, to reach a BAC of 1.91%, he would have had to have drank two straight bottles of that Everclear in a very short amount of time. Possible, but it would have killed him far sooner than he actually died.

Edit: This doesnt take into account how fast alcohol leaves the body in abnormal circumstances (ie. i am uncertain if being in a coma from alcohol poisoning causes it to leave the body at a different rate). But regardless, if alcohol poisoning at Susan's party on the 23rd was his cause of death, he would have been dead far sooner than the 36 hours his body was stated in the autopsy."
Good stuff about the everclear, Robin. It was said that he was drinking earlier before going to the party, could the mixing of alcohol also could've killed him?

Mixing high percentage alcohol, with a small frame can be deadly.
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Old 03-30-2017, 07:03 AM   #99
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Good stuff about the everclear, Robin. It was said that he was drinking earlier before going to the party, could the mixing of alcohol also could've killed him?

Mixing high percentage alcohol, with a small frame can be deadly.
I can't be certain if Kurt drank the entire bottle of Everclear before he went to the party or if he brought it with him or if he drank any other alcohol while he was there. But Everclear is so potent that it's currently banned in 15 states, including Ohio, and if a small inexperienced drinker like Kurt was trying it for the first time, it might not have turned out well. Whatever happened, it seems unlikely it killed him instantly.
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Old 03-30-2017, 07:07 AM   #100
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I can't be certain if Kurt drank the entire bottle of Everclear before he went to the party or if he brought it with him or if he drank any other alcohol while he was there. But Everclear is so potent that it's currently banned in 15 states, including Ohio, and if a small inexperienced drinker like Kurt was trying it for the first time, it might not have turned out well. Whatever happened, it seems unlikely it killed him instantly.
True. Him being in a coma from Everclear/whatever else makes sense, if you think about the slept-in cot in the basement. It seems like after drinking, he slipped into a coma, and they tried to nurse him back to health to no avail in that cot in the basement. Maybe that's why he was missing for days. They tried to see if he would wake up, but when he didn't, he was thrown in the ravine.
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Old 03-30-2017, 07:24 PM   #101
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True. Him being in a coma from Everclear/whatever else makes sense, if you think about the slept-in cot in the basement. It seems like after drinking, he slipped into a coma, and they tried to nurse him back to health to no avail in that cot in the basement. Maybe that's why he was missing for days. They tried to see if he would wake up, but when he didn't, he was thrown in the ravine.

I see Everclear and I think of the 90's band.....then it leads me to think of the WB's Everwood.....then I'm thinking of Evanescence....

Everclear is an aphrodisiac yes?
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Old 03-30-2017, 07:41 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinW
So I've been discussing this case on Reddit today and a few people have shared some personal experiences about Everclear. I found these quotes pretty interesting and they might shed some light on Kurt's exact cause of death...

"We used to have everclear parties in high school. My husbands friend gave himself alcohol poisoning and 'slept it off' in an RV behind my in law's house for almost three days. He was basically in a coma but no one knew he was in there. After about two and a half days, friend wakes up,crawls out of rv, pisses copious amounts of bloody urine and passes back out. Mother in law comes home and finds him, calls parents who take him home to sleep more."

"This got me thinking. Years ago I was in a coma in the woods alone for 3 days before I was found. During my time out there, I developed a condition called Rhabdomyolysis. It's a condition where skeletal muscle starts to break down rapidly. It can cause brown or reddish urine. It can cause acute kidney failure. Two of the causes of rhabdo are excess alcohol consumption and prolonged immobility.

This is just a thought, and maybe I'm way off. But an alcohol induced coma coupled with a few days of not moving could trigger rhabdo, and acute kidney failure could be cause of death.

During the autopsy, would they look for rhabdo or kidney failure in a case like this? Also, this took place in the 80's and I have no idea how sophisticated their testing was back then."
The only thing that gives me pause here is that Kurt's basic lab results would have been grossly abnormal with rhabdomyolysis, and this would likely provide a huge lead for a competent pathologist. I don't feign to know standard autopsy protocol, but I imagine urine samples are taken from the body. Just as the reddit poster mentioned, that urine would present abnormally, by gross observation, lab testing, or both.
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Old 03-30-2017, 08:01 PM   #103
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I see Everclear and I think of the 90's band.....then it leads me to think of the WB's Everwood.....then I'm thinking of Evanescence....

Everclear is an aphrodisiac yes?
I'm not trying to troll, but your post is hilarious, and bizarre.

I went to a run-down all you can eat Chinese buffet yesterday for lunch. It's in a bit of an unpleasant neighborhood. Now in this ghetto buffet, in the middle of nowhere they started playing that Evanescence "My Immortal" song. I haven't heard this since high school, but not only hearing this in a ghetto area was hilarious, but eating by myself to that sad ass song was a tad depressing.
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Old 03-30-2017, 08:11 PM   #104
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The only thing that gives me pause here is that Kurt's basic lab results would have been grossly abnormal with rhabdomyolysis, and this would likely provide a huge lead for a competent pathologist. I don't feign to know standard autopsy protocol, but I imagine urine samples are taken from the body. Just as the reddit poster mentioned, that urine would present abnormally, by gross observation, lab testing, or both.
Is that ME to be trusted? I feel like they really needed a second opinion.
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Old 03-30-2017, 08:55 PM   #105
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Is that ME to be trusted? I feel like they really needed a second opinion.
Could be. I think it certainly wouldn't have hurt in this case.
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