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Old 07-06-2014, 11:21 PM   #76
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I think there should have been a second autopsy after the first was inconclusive. It would have been nice to have Cyril Wecht or another ME try to find out the cause. I'm not trying to say that the first ME was incompetent, but he did fail to find a cause so it would have been good to have another ME try to solve the mystery.
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Old 07-07-2014, 12:18 AM   #77
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I didn't say it happened in winter. It is also possible to die of hypothermia in higher temperatures--Kurt had no shirt on & could have laid unconscious for a long period of time. It does not have to be frigid weather. Google deaths in higher temps.

I posted the wrong date--sorry about that.
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Old 07-07-2014, 12:57 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liebchen77
I didn't say it happened in winter. It is also possible to die of hypothermia in higher temperatures--Kurt had no shirt on & could have laid unconscious for a long period of time. It does not have to be frigid weather. Google deaths in higher temps.

I posted the wrong date--sorry about that.
you posted "our basement was freezing in winter" so I think that's where he was coming from in regards to that.

Kurt's body was found without his shirt on, but that doesn't necessarily mean he died that way.
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Old 12-18-2015, 03:17 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synthisislab
Yet Kurt's personality had a side he did not share with his parents. Like many teens, he was not averse to smoking marijuana or drinking booze on weekends, according to his friends.

Fr! iday, Oct. 23, 1981, was no exception. Kurt cut school and went to a liquor store, where he persuaded an adult to buy him a fifth of 190-proof Everclear, a potent liquor that since has been banned from Ohio liquor stores because it killed a Michigan man.

Kurt drank the afternoon away at his girlfriend's house, then joined a friend, Samuel C. Carroll, for a party that night at the home of Debbie Sams and her brother, Clayton. The Samses and a female roommate rented the upstairs of a double house on Harvard Ave. in Newburgh Heights.

Kurt's drinking continued at the party and he began stumbling around, knocking things over. Then, he got sick.

"The roommate asked me to please get him out of the house, so I helped him down the stairs and to the outside," Carroll said.

"We were out there about 20 or 30 minutes and it was cold out there - we were both in T-shirts," Carroll continued. "I then went to go and get the jackets upstairs. ... I got t! he jackets and went back down and he wasn't there. I was only ! upstairs about two or three minutes."

Carroll roamed nearby side streets and checked the parking lot of a J.L. Goodman Furniture Inc. warehouse, not far from where Kurt's body eventually was found. Finally, assuming Kurt had gone home, Carroll returned to the party.

"I can only guess that someone he knew picked him up because it happened that fast," Carroll said. "Someone had to pick him up in a car."
Bumping that because I think it's very important.

This tells me numerous things. 1) that the majority of the drinking Kurt did was probably before he even attended the party. It seems apparent that included Everclear, which is very potent. I think it's a very real possibility that Kurt died of alcohol poisoning due to drinking too much, and quite frankly, he would have no one to blame but himself for that.

2) It also increases the likelihood of my long-standing belief that nobody at that party was responsible in any way for Kurt's death. Kurt was evicted from the party because he was completely drunk and destroying things in the house. He appeared to have wandered away and succumbed to alcohol poisoning at some point.

I'm sorry if that was a little harsh. I'm sorry he's dead. It was sad he lost his life at that age. But I've never been comfortable with the majority opinion that there was nefarious activity going on at that apartment and that everybody there participated in some grand conspiracy to cover-up a homicide, negligent or otherwise.

We all do foolish things at that age, but cutting class and getting someone to buy you alcohol because you're underage and it's extremely powerful alcohol, well that's pretty serious. Honestly, I think Kurt got in way over his head and while I do feel sorry for his mother, I think she was totally na´ve about her youngest child.

I also tend to believe the friend's story about the jackets, because he even expresses amazement that Kurt could have disappeared in such a short time.
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Old 12-20-2015, 07:03 AM   #80
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This is exactly what I think transpired and that no one was responsible for his death other than Kurt unfortunately. The ravine being in such close proximity to the unit means it was highly probable that Kurt just wandered out there and died of alcohol poisoning and wasn't found until a few days later.
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Old 12-20-2015, 08:11 AM   #81
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Although it's plausible that a crew of scared teens tried to cover up Sova's accidental death, that's the limit of my thinking something nefarious happened.

Giving an adult money to buy your liquor (including Everclear) and smokes is typical teen behavior. The thousands of underage college students who do it yearly would agree (and I sure did it plenty of times).
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Old 02-06-2017, 08:16 PM   #82
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The Kurt Sova case has always bothered me. Although I do think it was an accident really fatally caused by kids trying to keep him in the basement and nurse him back to health.
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Old 02-06-2017, 09:35 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdb4884
This is exactly what I think transpired and that no one was responsible for his death other than Kurt unfortunately. The ravine being in such close proximity to the unit means it was highly probable that Kurt just wandered out there and died of alcohol poisoning and wasn't found until a few days later.
This seems most likely, but it would mean that Kurt's father had missed seeing his son's body when he searched the area in the preceding days (which does seem potentially implausible, depending on the extent to which he combed the ravine). It's entirely possible though.

Either that, or Kurt died in the house and was dumped there by the teenagers and adults, who were trying to avoid getting in trouble for supplying the alcohol that led to his death.
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Old 02-08-2017, 03:04 AM   #84
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Quote:
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This seems most likely, but it would mean that Kurt's father had missed seeing his son's body when he searched the area in the preceding days (which does seem potentially implausible, depending on the extent to which he combed the ravine). It's entirely possible though.

Either that, or Kurt died in the house and was dumped there by the teenagers and adults, who were trying to avoid getting in trouble for supplying the alcohol that led to his death.
Well, he had his own alcohol (fifth of Everclear) before the party, but it's impossible to know how much (if any) of it he drank at the girlfriend's that day before the party at the duplex or if he saved it, hid it in his jacket, and then started drinking it that night at the party.

Note: I'm pretty sure his body was found with his yellow cut-off T-shirt on and not shirtless.
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Old 02-08-2017, 10:38 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve W.
Note: I'm pretty sure his body was found with his yellow cut-off T-shirt on and not shirtless.
Kurt's father gave as the reason he knows he wouldn't have missed the body in the ravine is that he would have seen the yellow t-shirt Kurt had on. So, I'm pretty sure you're right about that.
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Old 02-09-2017, 04:01 AM   #86
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I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, asmitty.

Ever since the 1991 Cleveland Plain-Dealer newspaper article about him was linked in one of his other threads, I've been convinced that the two guys seen carrying (or dragging) a teenager into that ravine area by Angeline Reddicks and her husband were carrying Kurt. I also believe that they moved him there on Tuesday evening (10-27-1981), not too long AFTER Kenneth Sova had checked the area. I think it's pure luck that they took him there at the time that they did without Kurt's dad seeing them.
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Old 02-09-2017, 08:57 PM   #87
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But where's his other shoe at?
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Old 02-10-2017, 03:07 AM   #88
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But where's his other shoe at?
Maybe it fell off when the two guys were carrying his body to the ravine area. Maybe it fell off the evening that he was (likely) really drunk or sick. Maybe it fell off some other time in-between when people were carrying him around or moving his body. The possibilities are endless. I don't put much stock into the missing shoe thing with him and Eugene Kvet: I think that was just another way for UM to try and add another element of intrigue to this case (probably because they didn't get very many details from the local authorities).

We know this much: the investigators did a terrible job "investigating" his death, the medical examiner somehow couldn't find any cause of death, and the girl that lived in that duplex (her real name isn't Susan, that's just the name they gave her in the segment) lied about having a party that Friday night (10-23-81).
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Old 02-10-2017, 11:40 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve W.
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, asmitty.

Ever since the 1991 Cleveland Plain-Dealer newspaper article about him was linked in one of his other threads, I've been convinced that the two guys seen carrying (or dragging) a teenager into that ravine area by Angeline Reddicks and her husband were carrying Kurt. I also believe that they moved him there on Tuesday evening (10-27-1981), not too long AFTER Kenneth Sova had checked the area. I think it's pure luck that they took him there at the time that they did without Kurt's dad seeing them.
No sarcasm. Kurt's father said, that he searched the ravine the day before and he would have seen Kurt's body if it had been there because he would have seen the yellow shirt that Kurt had on. I was giving that as a piece of evidence that supports the notion that Kurt was not shirtless because others have posted that he was shirtless. I'm guessing his father said that because when his parents came to ID the body, he had the shirt on.
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Old 03-29-2017, 12:29 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiseguy182
Bumping that because I think it's very important.

This tells me numerous things. 1) that the majority of the drinking Kurt did was probably before he even attended the party. It seems apparent that included Everclear, which is very potent. I think it's a very real possibility that Kurt died of alcohol poisoning due to drinking too much, and quite frankly, he would have no one to blame but himself for that.

2) It also increases the likelihood of my long-standing belief that nobody at that party was responsible in any way for Kurt's death. Kurt was evicted from the party because he was completely drunk and destroying things in the house. He appeared to have wandered away and succumbed to alcohol poisoning at some point.

I'm sorry if that was a little harsh. I'm sorry he's dead. It was sad he lost his life at that age. But I've never been comfortable with the majority opinion that there was nefarious activity going on at that apartment and that everybody there participated in some grand conspiracy to cover-up a homicide, negligent or otherwise.

We all do foolish things at that age, but cutting class and getting someone to buy you alcohol because you're underage and it's extremely powerful alcohol, well that's pretty serious. Honestly, I think Kurt got in way over his head and while I do feel sorry for his mother, I think she was totally na´ve about her youngest child.

I also tend to believe the friend's story about the jackets, because he even expresses amazement that Kurt could have disappeared in such a short time.

I believe the first half of the story but then I always question his "friend" Samuel C. Carroll's story about taking him outside.

If that really happened and Kurt really wandered off, I think that: A. his body would have been discovered the next day rather than 5 days later and B. it would have been able to discount the story that Angeline Reddicks and her husband saw two males carrying another male towards the area where Kurt's body was found shortly before Halloween.

As it is, I don't think Carroll's story of taking him outside and Sova wandering off (or someone picking him up) is true.
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