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Old 06-06-2011, 07:08 PM   #16
hippiechick60
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lol well good for you! but as i said hmmm whatever!
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Old 06-07-2011, 08:32 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HelloLarry
Do you think that had more to do with the 'fad' aspect of the Monkees and not because of how it was produced or controlled? Maybe the project just peaked right around that time.

I don't think Kirshner getting canned had any impact on how the music was distributed (meaning without his control the albums weren't in as many stores which would equal fewer sales). Not to mention, I don't think an album of Kirshner approved songs (drek like "If I Learned to Play the Violin") would have been received any better. The music as a whole was still professionally controlled by others even though the members of the show/group had a little more input. It had it's core / built-in audience and maybe some of them were growing up and moving onto other things like all fads. When Headquarters came out, the music industry sound was changing. I almost wonder what things would have been like if the show had come about a year earlier in that something like Headquarters fits in more with the mainstream pop music sound of the summer of '66 than it does the summer of '67.
It seems that the advent of color TV shows started an overall decline in everything. TV shows got crazier, music got crazier, public behavior got crazier. It's been slowly all downhill since about 1967, although things stayed mostly decent till about 1977, and it's just gotten worse since then.
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Old 06-08-2011, 07:47 AM   #18
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The decline of society and manners in general also had something to do with it. Plus, the networks are gonna push what sells and if crude, crappy shows are what sells, then that's what they'll put out there.

I can remember when words like "penis" and "ass" were verboten on American TV. Now they're commonplace.

A friend and I were talking about Family Guy the other day and his assessment of the show nailed it for me: Lowest Common Denominator Entertainment.

And let us not forget the fact that "reality" shows have taken over in such a big way.

As TV gets worse, I'd just as soon go on the internet more or read.
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Old 06-15-2011, 11:19 AM   #19
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Just my opinion but can we please stay on topic here? I look to these boards from time to time to read some good dialog on topics. These threads that constantly dissolve into suggestions that all tv is junk today are a yawn. Not to mention the fact that it isn't true. True there are some really bad shows out there but there always have been. There is a lot of TV being produced today which is fresh, honest, and challenging and is allowed to be so because things have loosened up a bit.

Let's just assume we're all fans of an older shows because we are posting in threads about older shows.

Unless you feel Mike's rebellion is a direct or indirect cause for the decay in modern society, can you please offer something of substance to the topic at hand?
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Old 06-15-2011, 06:51 PM   #20
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Threads often tend to not stay on topic. No one does it intentional, it just happens natural during the flow of conversation. As responses are posted another topic eventually gets introduced into the discussion. The way I see it, whatever the thread whatever the topic, people are posting what's on their mind and it's all good to me.

Regarding the state of current TV, the main problem I have with it is how indecent it has become. The sitcoms are in poor taste, the dramas and cop shows are overly violent and filled with foul language. Any show from the 50's and 60's, and most shows from the 70's were done in far better taste compared to the junk on TV from the 80's up to today.

I don't know if The Monkees producers scolded Mike Nesmith, but Mike seems to be the most outspoken of the four guys in the group so it's possible there may have been some problems. As far as I know, Mike hasn't participated in Monkees concerts for a long time, it's only the three other guys Micky, Davy and Peter.

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Old 06-23-2012, 04:05 PM   #21
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It's ancient history now but here's what I never understood with Nesmith. The ad that went out for the 4 insane boys to star in a TV series about a band never said anything about being able to play an instrument, the whole premise was that they were looking for 4 to play a band, it so happened that peter and mike were so called musicians but that was not required. So Nesmith decides to make a strong play after a season and after a 250K (over usd 1 million in today's terms) check was laid in his hands. IMO he overstepped in every way shape and form that was imaginable at the time, but then again if he didn't we don't know them as we do and history does now, but again IMO he had no business doing what he did. In the screen tests not one time is being able to play an instrument mentioned as a requirement to get the part.
I enjoy the band, like the music, like the few tunes Nesmith put out as a monkee but think he is a bit weird and arrogant. He is a lot like Paul McCartney in demeanor and off the wallness but of course not as talented of course. Again not dissing Nesmith but I think he was wrong in what he did, but as it turns out pretty glad he did.
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Old 06-30-2012, 12:59 PM   #22
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Quote:
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It's ancient history now but here's what I never understood with Nesmith. The ad that went out for the 4 insane boys to star in a TV series about a band never said anything about being able to play an instrument, the whole premise was that they were looking for 4 to play a band, it so happened that peter and mike were so called musicians but that was not required. So Nesmith decides to make a strong play after a season and after a 250K (over usd 1 million in today's terms) check was laid in his hands. IMO he overstepped in every way shape and form that was imaginable at the time, but then again if he didn't we don't know them as we do and history does now, but again IMO he had no business doing what he did. In the screen tests not one time is being able to play an instrument mentioned as a requirement to get the part.
I enjoy the band, like the music, like the few tunes Nesmith put out as a monkee but think he is a bit weird and arrogant. He is a lot like Paul McCartney in demeanor and off the wallness but of course not as talented of course. Again not dissing Nesmith but I think he was wrong in what he did, but as it turns out pretty glad he did.
You're right -- the four were hired as actors, not musicians.

However, the producers were making it look as though the four Monkees were playing all the instruments on the first two albums. No session musicians were credited and to the public, the Monkees were presented as a band.

Yet, while they were a "band," they had no say in the decision-making process. Their second album, More Of The Monkees was released without the band being notified of its release and I can see where some of Nesmith's frustration comes from. After all, if everything is credited to the "band," shouldn't they have had some input into the creative process?

Ultimately, the producers did support the Monkees, and we got two great albums as a result. Headquarters (which was played by all four Monkees) and Pisces, Aquarius, Capricorn & Jones Ltd (which was a mix between the Monkees and session players).
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Old 07-07-2012, 12:59 AM   #23
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Quote:
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Their second album, More Of The Monkees was released without the band being notified of its release and I can see where some of Nesmith's frustration comes from.
I don't know if I believe the story that has circulated about this album anymore. It makes for a good story I just don't know how true it is. I'm going totally off of memory here so bear with me. I think Peter has said on more than one occassion that they didn't know the second album was out and had to go to the store to buy it while they were on tour somewhere. In fact that quote may be in Andrews book.

I don't have it in front of me but aside from the Hawaii concert, they didn't tour proper until the summer of '67 I believe by which time More of AND Headquarters were on the shelves.

Also in late '66 or early '67 Andrews book mentions the Monkees are doing an appearance on a local radio show and giving away copies of the next album (which at that time would have been 'More of...'). If that is the case, then the legend surrounding the knowledge of the release of this album gets a little cloudy for me.

I agree with you. I would not change history because we wouldn't have this great story not to mention some great songs but it has always been odd to me how Mike pushed them to become a real band. In the earliest sessions, Davy isn't even there which is evident when you listen to the 'sessons' CDs of Headquarters, he's in NYC cutting 'She Hangs Out' 'Love to Love' etc. So they do Headquarters and by the time they start the sessions for Pices - Mike seems to lose interest in playing as a self-contained unit. Now granted the time wasn't there to do all that between filming and concerts but it seems like he broke the system, then used it to his personal advantage and left the other three hanging out to dry a bit. Just my thoughts...
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Old 07-07-2012, 08:17 PM   #24
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Peter Tork said he lost interest in being a Monkee after Headquarters, when the group went into what he called "mixed mode," which meant the individual Monkees were doing their own tracks with session musicians.
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Old 07-11-2012, 02:04 AM   #25
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That is the ironic thing about it. They (well mostly Mike and to a lesser extent Peter) fight for this independence and then at the end of the day, it didn't seem like it mattered all that much to the people who were criticizing them. There didn't seem to be any fanfare (at least not that I've seen) that they played on Headquarters.

I wonder though, with the TV show being the top priority - there probably just wasn't time to be as 'musical' as they could and by the time they did have the time, they were losing interest in one another.

While I find that period of their career fascinating (I'm talking the Birds the Bees and the Monkees) it's really hard to find anything commercial in that pile of tunes they produced on their own.

While again the legacy they left is just fine by me, it is a shame that both sides couldn't give a little and compromise more.
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