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Old 02-04-2014, 10:17 AM   #91
TracyLynnS
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I wanted to bring this info over from the other thread (which isn't specific to this case) because a few of us have read the book that Dynoguy88 is talking about here and I thought this was significant and should be shared in a thread about the Oberholtzer/Schnee murders. Dynoguy88's post:

A big thanks to MegTheEgg86 for mentioning the book 'Murderers Among Us.' I bought the book off of Amazon and I read the entry for Bobbie Oberholtzer and Annette Schnee.

The entry is only about 15 pages long, too short to give a case as serious as this the kind of detail it deserves. From an investigation point of view, it doesn't add anything that we didn't already know. But it's got minor details from Jeff and Bobbie's personal life that are kind of interesting, even though they don't really have anything to do with the murders. For instance, it mentions that Bobbie got pregnant when she was a senior in high school and she missed her graduation because she was away giving birth. She married the baby's father but given how young the couple was, the marriage didn't last long and they divorced at age 22. Not long after, Bobbie started dating Jeff and four years later, they were married. Bobbie's ex got full custody of their baby. Again, nothing relevant to the case but it's an interesting back story I never knew.

Now on to the disturbing facts brought up in the book.

1. The police response to Bobbie's disappearance was bad on epic proportions. Jeff first reported Bobbie missing at 3:30 a.m. It was too early to file a report. I don't fault them here because back in those days, a person had to be missing for multiple days before police would even think of getting involved. But several hours later, Jeff and his friends returned to the police to report Bobbie missing again, this time with some of her belongings they had found that had been strewn across the highway including her backpack and mitten that was covered with blood. Even with this evidence, the police did nothing. The sheriff made no attempt to join in the search for Bobbie. Even more infuriating, the deputy that Jeff had spoken to told him to go home because Bobbie had most likely decided to split. This is why Jeff and his friends had to do all the work on their own; the questioning, the investigating, the search party. The police didn't do a thing until after Bobbie's body was found which ended up being just a few hours later.

2. In the UM segment, Jeff briefly mentions that his wife wouldn't have gotten into a vehicle with just anyone while out hitchhiking. In this book, he is adamant repeatedly that Bobbie would never get a ride from a complete stranger. Everyone in town knew each other and the people you weren't exactly close friends with, you still knew as locals and people you could trust with a ride. (This was small town in the early 80's. A different time.) A bartender at the pub Bobbie was having drinks at before she left to hitch home told police that Bobbie was annoyed that her two friends weren't making any effort to leave. They were the ones who were originally going to drive her home and when it looked as though they wanted to make a night out of it, she told the bartender that she was leaving and don't even bother telling her friends that she had left. Jeff discounted the bartender's story because it made no sense to him. In his own words...

"She knew I was at home. The thing that sticks in my craw is that no locals hitchhiked over to Alma at that time of night, especially in such horrible weather conditions. I believe she walked out in the hall to the payphones and saw someone she knew and they left together. That's why she didn't go back in the bar. It was 30 below that night and the wind was blowing hard. There was absolutely no way she was going to go outside hitchhiking home when she could have made a call to me to come and get her."

3. There was hardly any mention of the orange socks at both crimes scenes. That was always one of the most fascinating things about these crimes and UM fans always refer to this case as 'The Orange Sock Murders,' but the book didn't seem interested in that factoid.

4. Lastly, the most surprising and depressing accusations from Jeff's brother Jamie and his wife Cindy. They apparently believe that Jeff is the killer of the women. A direct quote from Jamie....

"I can't prove it. All the evidence is what you would call circumstantial. But I believe he killed her."

Jamie and Cindy claim that Jeff was a womanizer. They claim that the marriage was always a nightmare. They said that 4 days before the murder, Jeff had asked Bobbie to bring home a pizza for dinner. She ended up being an hour late, the pizza was cold, so he got angry, took a swing at her, missed and punched a hole in the wall. Jeff claims they argued over the dinner but it was nothing more than that and Jamie doesn't have a leg to stand on with that accusation saying, "We bickered over cold pizza so I decided to murder her? Does that make sense?"

Jamie and Cindy also claim that they found a note in the Oberholtzer home that was written by Bobbie paraphrasing: "Jeff, if you kill me today, how can I have your baby tomorrow?" They said they gave the note to the police but the police and investigators claim they never received any such note. And given how they spent 7 years doing everything in their power to bust Jeff for the murders, I highly doubt they would have intentionally lost such a damning piece of evidence. All reports from Jeff and Bobbie's friends say they had no idea what Jamie and Cindy were talking about and that they never saw any evidence that the marriage was the nightmare described.

I have to say, I can see why 'Unsolved Mysteries', 'Sensing Murder' and the book 'Monster,' decided to pay no attention to Jamie and Cindy Oberholtzer. To put it gently, they sound like a couple of nuts. Cindy in particular doesn't sound like a person who is all...there. Case in point: She says shortly after the murders, she was woken up in the middle of the night by an evil spirit she named, Mr. Death. She says it's not the occult. She just so happens to always see spirits because they enjoy saying hello to her. She says Mr. Death was dark, 7 feet tall, stood at the foot of her bed that night and they made eye contact with each other for seven straight hours. In her mind, the spirit wanted vengeance against Jeff for killing Bobbie. Ummmmmm.....O.K. I don't think there's an emoticon that can accurately describe my response to that other than


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Old 10-22-2015, 08:32 PM   #92
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I was organizing some old books this evening and I found my 'Monster' book which mentions Bobby and Annette's murders as possibly having been connected to Thomas Luther, who attacked (and killed) several other women in the area over the years.

This one section I turned to briefly mentioned the filming of the UM segment and I thought some here might like to read it...


January 6, 1992 – Alma, Colorado

Detective Richard Eaton of the Summit County Sheriff’s Office stood beside Sacramento Creek listening to the silver movement of the water running beneath the thin coating of ice. He was at the spot where the body of Annette Schnee had been found by a boy on a fishing excursion nearly a decade earlier.

It was a beautiful, if lonely, place for Annette to have died, Eaton thought. The creek wound like a snake from the snow capped peaks to the west across South Park, a high plain that lay between two arms of the Rocky Mountains, dotted with lonely ranch houses and the occasional small town like Alma. The land lay locked in winter beneath a pale blue sky, much as it had when Annette was killed. Looking west, he could see the V-shaped cleft in the dark wall of mountains that identified Hoosier Pass, where Bobby Jo Oberholtzer died.

Around him bustled the film crew of the television docudrama Unsolved Mysteries, which he had contacted late in 1991 in hopes that a re-enactment of the deaths of the two women might generate new information from viewers. Eight years earlier, he had promised their families that he wouldn’t stop until he brought the killer or killers to justice. But now, though he would admit it to no one, he was running out of ideas.

Eaton looked at his watch and cleared his throat. “In a couple of hours, it will have been exactly ten years since Annette Schnee was last seen alive,” he announced. The film crew, actors, and private investigator Charlie McCormick stopped what they were doing and stood quietly looking at the surrounding beauty.

Annette’s family had come to Colorado for the filming of the Unsolved Mysteries segment. They stood quietly with the others when Eaton made his announcement at the place where Annette, the happy child in their family photo albums, had been found.

The next day, the Schnees and Eaton gathered with everyone else at the top of Hoosier Pass where the film crew prepared to shoot the scene re-enacting Bobby Jo’s final moments. To get the camera angles and lighting right, the director had the actress playing Bobby Jo lie down in the snow on the exact spot where the body had been discovered ten years earlier, almost to the hour.

It took the crew forty-five minutes to get everything just right. By then, the actress was shivering and turning blue from the cold. She was not dressed for the weather; in particular, her boots had been designed for fashion not practicality, and her feet felt like frozen blocks of ice.

The director told her to go warm up and come back for the final take. As the girl stood up and moved painfully toward a trailer in the parking lot that had been set up as a dressing room, Annette’s mother rushed forward to cover her with a blanket.

As Eaton watched Mrs. Schnee half carry the poor girl to warmth and safety, he felt his throat tighten. A mother who had been too far away on the night a monster took her daughter was trying to make up for it the only way she could. When the actress later returned to film the scene, he noticed that she was wearing the warm winter boots of Mrs. Schnee.
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Old 10-23-2015, 11:30 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dynoguy88
I was organizing some old books this evening and I found my 'Monster' book which mentions Bobby and Annette's murders as possibly having been connected to Thomas Luther, who attacked (and killed) several other women in the area over the years.

This one section I turned to briefly mentioned the filming of the UM segment and I thought some here might like to read it...


January 6, 1992 – Alma, Colorado

Detective Richard Eaton of the Summit County Sheriff’s Office stood beside Sacramento Creek listening to the silver movement of the water running beneath the thin coating of ice. He was at the spot where the body of Annette Schnee had been found by a boy on a fishing excursion nearly a decade earlier.

It was a beautiful, if lonely, place for Annette to have died, Eaton thought. The creek wound like a snake from the snow capped peaks to the west across South Park, a high plain that lay between two arms of the Rocky Mountains, dotted with lonely ranch houses and the occasional small town like Alma. The land lay locked in winter beneath a pale blue sky, much as it had when Annette was killed. Looking west, he could see the V-shaped cleft in the dark wall of mountains that identified Hoosier Pass, where Bobby Jo Oberholtzer died.

Around him bustled the film crew of the television docudrama Unsolved Mysteries, which he had contacted late in 1991 in hopes that a re-enactment of the deaths of the two women might generate new information from viewers. Eight years earlier, he had promised their families that he wouldn’t stop until he brought the killer or killers to justice. But now, though he would admit it to no one, he was running out of ideas.

Eaton looked at his watch and cleared his throat. “In a couple of hours, it will have been exactly ten years since Annette Schnee was last seen alive,” he announced. The film crew, actors, and private investigator Charlie McCormick stopped what they were doing and stood quietly looking at the surrounding beauty.

Annette’s family had come to Colorado for the filming of the Unsolved Mysteries segment. They stood quietly with the others when Eaton made his announcement at the place where Annette, the happy child in their family photo albums, had been found.

The next day, the Schnees and Eaton gathered with everyone else at the top of Hoosier Pass where the film crew prepared to shoot the scene re-enacting Bobby Jo’s final moments. To get the camera angles and lighting right, the director had the actress playing Bobby Jo lie down in the snow on the exact spot where the body had been discovered ten years earlier, almost to the hour.

It took the crew forty-five minutes to get everything just right. By then, the actress was shivering and turning blue from the cold. She was not dressed for the weather; in particular, her boots had been designed for fashion not practicality, and her feet felt like frozen blocks of ice.

The director told her to go warm up and come back for the final take. As the girl stood up and moved painfully toward a trailer in the parking lot that had been set up as a dressing room, Annette’s mother rushed forward to cover her with a blanket.

As Eaton watched Mrs. Schnee half carry the poor girl to warmth and safety, he felt his throat tighten. A mother who had been too far away on the night a monster took her daughter was trying to make up for it the only way she could. When the actress later returned to film the scene, he noticed that she was wearing the warm winter boots of Mrs. Schnee.
Thanks Dynoguy! I enjoyed reading this!
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Old 01-06-2017, 03:37 PM   #94
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It was 34 years ago tonight that Bobbie and Annette were murdered. Investigators have not given up, but still no new developments in this case that I'm aware of.

I desperately hope the scum who killed these ladies get what he/they deserve.
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Old 07-12-2018, 05:01 PM   #95
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Hi All, I wanted to bump up this thread as I am currently in Breckenridge. I decided to reach out to Charlie McCormick, one of the investigators on the case. I was able to meet up with him today for about 3 hours and he went over the entire powerpoint presentation that was done up for the case a few years ago for the presentations in Frisco, etc... I will say it was an amazing experience to learn more about the case (I thought I knew every detail) and to see more photos and details (including more crime scene photos that were very heartbreaking to see.) Anyways, he had said if me and my group had any theories that make sense he's always open to hearing them. Hopefully something will soon be solved with this case with all of the advancement of the DNA lately.
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:15 PM   #96
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That's amazing that he agreed to meet with you. I always thought Charlie seemed like a really nice guy from the interviews I've seen of him.

Did you ask him if investigators are planning to do a forensic genealogy test of the blood on Bobbie's mitten? A few cold cases have been solved using that and I'm starting to wonder if that is the last hope of ever solving this case.
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Old 07-12-2018, 08:56 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dynoguy88 View Post
That's amazing that he agreed to meet with you. I always thought Charlie seemed like a really nice guy from the interviews I've seen of him.

Did you ask him if investigators are planning to do a forensic genealogy test of the blood on Bobbie's mitten? A few cold cases have been solved using that and I'm starting to wonder if that is the last hope of ever solving this case.
Yes, that was the first thing I brought up...it sounds promising for the future, hopefully. I am sure this will be solved sometime and it's exciting to see that potential. Yes, I was quite surprised he agreed to meet with me (and didn't think I was a psycho for being so interested in this case) and surprised I had the courage to ask him to meet with me, ha!

Definitely still such a puzzling case. It was sad to see the crime scene photos of the girls and of Bobbi's eyes wide open.
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:50 PM   #98
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Definitely still such a puzzling case. It was sad to see the crime scene photos of the girls and of Bobbi's eyes wide open.
Oh, Lord. One of the books mentioned she was found on her back (not face down like in the reenactment) and the look of terror was still on her face.

I don't think I would want to see that picture.
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Old 07-13-2018, 12:37 PM   #99
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Yes, that was the first thing I brought up...it sounds promising for the future, hopefully. I am sure this will be solved sometime and it's exciting to see that potential. Yes, I was quite surprised he agreed to meet with me (and didn't think I was a psycho for being so interested in this case) and surprised I had the courage to ask him to meet with me, ha!

Definitely still such a puzzling case. It was sad to see the crime scene photos of the girls and of Bobbi's eyes wide open.
It's awesome he agreed to meet with you - though it'd definitely have to be hard to view some of the case details first hand there.

Would definitely be interesting to see here whether Forensic Genealogy could find the killer (and possibly connect the case to Thomas Luther)
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Old 07-13-2018, 04:57 PM   #100
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Honestly I think the serial killer angle is too convenient. I think there is more to it than that. Like a local or something. Also Luther has already been ruled out via DNA as is. Yes she was face up and did have a look of terror and her eyes wide open. Almost allows you to relive what she was going through in her last moments. Very sad.
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Old 07-13-2018, 09:16 PM   #101
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Like a local or something.
Yes, I think it absolutely could have been a local or someone who had once been a local. This killer knew some of the secluded overlooks he could pull over in to commit these crimes. After committing one murder he went right back to do it again the same night, indicating that he knew hitchhiking was extremely common in this area and he'd be able to nab another woman.

That's sad to hear about Bobbi's eyes being wide open. I can only imagine how terrified she and Annette must have been.
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Old 07-14-2018, 06:58 AM   #102
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hostedbyrobertstack, so cool you had the opportunity to meet with Charlie McCormick. Thanks for bringing your experience back here to us.

I too think it almost certainly had to be someone local based on the Schnee crime scene alone. Few people other than local residents would know about that back road.

I know several years ago there was some talk of the responsibles being a set of brothers who were not from Colorado, but had lived in the Park/Summit County area for quite a while. The theory goes that one brother had gone out to commit the attack on Bobbi and then told his brother about it, who then, either in a state of some sort of sick one-upmanship or arousal, set out to commit the attack on Annette. Shortly thereafter, the pair returned to their home state, fearing prosecution. I know a rough version of this theory was put forth by one of the psychics on that 'Sensing Murder' episode they did on the case over a decade ago. However, I do clearly remember reading about this specific theory in a news article about the case as well and it was information the investigating agencies had developed, apparently unconnected to the aforementioned psychic. I would reckon y'all didn't discuss suspects as the case is open, but I was just curious if that idea was ever discussed or if anyone else here remembers this.
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Old 07-15-2018, 06:29 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hostedbyrobertstack View Post
Hi All, I wanted to bump up this thread as I am currently in Breckenridge. I decided to reach out to Charlie McCormick, one of the investigators on the case. I was able to meet up with him today for about 3 hours and he went over the entire powerpoint presentation that was done up for the case a few years ago for the presentations in Frisco, etc... I will say it was an amazing experience to learn more about the case (I thought I knew every detail) and to see more photos and details (including more crime scene photos that were very heartbreaking to see.) Anyways, he had said if me and my group had any theories that make sense he's always open to hearing them. Hopefully something will soon be solved with this case with all of the advancement of the DNA lately.
wow, that is quite the update. great work! This is very high on the UM cold case list for next to be solved. One of the most memorable segments and unfortunate cases I have ever heard of.
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Old 07-16-2018, 03:34 AM   #104
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East Area case was the one case I thought would never be solved.

It really gives me hope after Deangelo was captured that any case can be solved and hopefully we aren't too far away from solving this one.
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Old 07-16-2018, 07:21 AM   #105
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hostedbyrobertstack, so cool you had the opportunity to meet with Charlie McCormick. Thanks for bringing your experience back here to us.

I too think it almost certainly had to be someone local based on the Schnee crime scene alone. Few people other than local residents would know about that back road.

I know several years ago there was some talk of the responsibles being a set of brothers who were not from Colorado, but had lived in the Park/Summit County area for quite a while. The theory goes that one brother had gone out to commit the attack on Bobbi and then told his brother about it, who then, either in a state of some sort of sick one-upmanship or arousal, set out to commit the attack on Annette. Shortly thereafter, the pair returned to their home state, fearing prosecution. I know a rough version of this theory was put forth by one of the psychics on that 'Sensing Murder' episode they did on the case over a decade ago. However, I do clearly remember reading about this specific theory in a news article about the case as well and it was information the investigating agencies had developed, apparently unconnected to the aforementioned psychic. I would reckon y'all didn't discuss suspects as the case is open, but I was just curious if that idea was ever discussed or if anyone else here remembers this.
This is the first time I've heard this........would almost fit Occam's Razor better than a serial killer or something else.
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