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Old 01-10-2017, 05:09 PM   #31
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Sorry to hear about your mental illness, but your experiences don't speak for Burke. I've known two people who suffered from ADHD, or some other attention deficit problem, and the medication pretty much made them into zombies.
That's usually a sign that the medication needs to be adjusted. Because again, these drugs aren't supposed to make you mindlessly perky or a perpetual zombie; they are supposed to make you better able to function.

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Speaking on him being a legal adult, we don't know what goes on in their house. Burke could be deemed mentally unfit to live alone, he could have orders that make him remain under supervision, we don't know that. If Burke was showing signs of violence when he was younger, I'm sure something's wrong with him now.
And if something was wrong with him now, then wouldn't you be able to point to a clear history of run-ins with the law?

And if Burke had been deemed unfit to live by himself or that he had to be under constant supervision, again wouldn't there be actually records documenting all this? As I recall, however wealthy the Ramseys may be, they still would have had to go through legal proceedings and those tend to be recorded and documented.

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"His bad social skills" at his age are a huge red flag, that's why people keep bringing it up. I understand not everyone who shows quirks are murderers, but given his violent history as a child, the fact he's a suspect in his sister's death, and still show signs of a mental problem are huge red flags.
I keep bringing up the bad social skills bit because I am on the Autism spectrum. My social skills are atrocious and I frequently don't realize how I come off towards people unless it is spelled out in tedious detail for me. So I probably come off as weird and having a signs of a mental health problem. Yet I am a contributing member of society who doesn't have so much as a parking ticket on my record. Having a mental health problem or bad social skills is not solid proof of being a criminal.

And heck, I used to punch and hit my brother, but somehow I grew up to be a good, contributing member of society. So I feel all this talk about "Violent History," to be a bit overblown. Kids are often a-holes towards one another. Then they grow up, mature, and realize what an ass they were.

Again I am not completely opposed to Burke being a suspect. But you have to give me something more substantial to go on, something besides "he has bad social skills and is kind of weird and creepy."

Also, I am curious as to whether any reputable law enforcement official considers Burke guilty. Something besides a CNN documentary thrown together to cash in on the public's morbid curiosity or a bunch of armchair detectives; someone who actually has training and experience in the field of law and order.
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Old 01-10-2017, 08:14 PM   #32
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And if something was wrong with him now, then wouldn't you be able to point to a clear history of run-ins with the law?

And if Burke had been deemed unfit to live by himself or that he had to be under constant supervision, again wouldn't there be actually records documenting all this? As I recall, however wealthy the Ramseys may be, they still would have had to go through legal proceedings and those tend to be recorded and documented.
You completely missed my point. If Burke was given medication, and therapy he wouldn't have a history, especially if he was under supervision.

You keep speaking on records, are you sure there are none out there? Have you checked? Money can hide a lot of things.

Not to be rude, but it's hard to discuss this case because you think people are just attacking people with mental illnesses, or trying to paint them as demons, when we're just looking at the facts, you're just too biased to discuss this rationally. We're not saying everyone who has a mental illness is a bad person, or has a record, but Burke's behavior raises some red flags plain and simple.
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Old 01-11-2017, 08:11 PM   #33
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You keep speaking on records, are you sure there are none out there? Have you checked? Money can hide a lot of things.
The Ramseys may be rich, but they're not Jesus.

And again, I'm not opposed to Burke as a suspect, but I want something more solid than weird behavior. That's one of the most frustrating aspects of discussions on this case: it degenerates into endless nitpicking over minutiae, how the fact John or Patsy or Burke scratched their nose that one time in an interview, totally proves they did it.

To be fair, the police so FUBARed the case that it will likely never be solved, so there isn't really much to discuss.

Me, I'm inclined to believe it might be someone in the family. There's just too many coincidences with the ransom note. In fact, I kind of wonder why Jon-Benet wasn't discovered until after the police showed up. Yeah if I thought my kid had been kidnapped, I'd call them, but I'd also search every square inch of the house to be sure, especially if there's no clearly visible entry or exit.

In fact, there's a piece of physical evidence that makes me go "hmm..." and wonder if Team Burke Did It is onto something. Supposedly there were marks on the back of Jon-Benet's heels that indicated she had been dragged to the cellar. Now Jon-Benet was six, so she couldn't have weighed a lot. Neither John nor Patsy would have had too much trouble carrying her, but a nine-year-old would have more trouble.

It seems bizarre that if they were trying to draw attention away from themselves that the Ramseys would stage the crime in a manner so bizarre that it was guaranteed to cause the cops to take an even closer look at them. But from what I heard, Patsy was into drama and histrionics, so maybe she didn't know that the overly long ransom note and the crudely made garrotte would draw even more attention. Were it not for how badly the police screwed up, they probably would have been caught fairly quick.
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Old 01-11-2017, 09:56 PM   #34
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It seems bizarre that if they were trying to draw attention away from themselves that the Ramseys would stage the crime in a manner so bizarre that it was guaranteed to cause the cops to take an even closer look at them. But from what I heard, Patsy was into drama and histrionics, so maybe she didn't know that the overly long ransom note and the crudely made garrotte would draw even more attention. Were it not for how badly the police screwed up, they probably would have been caught fairly quick.

The police wanted the Ramsey's arrested. The DA's office prevented it because the Ramsey's were politically connected. The Ramsey's were in a panic because their daughter was dead and their son killed her. They had only a few hours to concoct a story that would (they thought) point people away from Burke. The irony is of course that Burke being nine years old was never going to go to jail and his parent's scheme has made his life ten times worse than if they had just told the truth.
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Old 01-12-2017, 12:24 PM   #35
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Burke is a strange man,

Could he have done this, sure. He could have made him a bowel of pineapple's and here comes sister taken his food. Who knows they might have had a fight earlier. And he got mad and hit her....

If this is true, I cant wrap my mind around 1. why did you not call 911? Could you not tell she was still alive? Could you not try something.
2. I dont think I could hide my child's body waiting for someone to find her. (If true I guess the dad could not either)
3. I dont think I could sit there and write a letter over and over knowing my child is gone and my other child killed her.

How hard it must have been to look him in the eyes day after day....
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Old 01-13-2017, 12:28 AM   #36
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Recently I've leaned more towards the theory that someone in the family did it. This is one case that is hard to prove one way or another. The biggest fact of the case is that she was murdered but beyond that seems awfully difficult to prove. If I had to guess who I think the most likely suspect is I'd say it would be the brother and then maybe the parents helping to cover it up. It's hard to prove the family did it and it's hard to prove they did not do it.
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Old 01-14-2017, 11:47 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by janiesue
Burke is a strange man,

Could he have done this, sure. He could have made him a bowel of pineapple's and here comes sister taken his food. Who knows they might have had a fight earlier. And he got mad and hit her....

If this is true, I cant wrap my mind around 1. why did you not call 911? Could you not tell she was still alive? Could you not try something.
2. I dont think I could hide my child's body waiting for someone to find her. (If true I guess the dad could not either)
3. I dont think I could sit there and write a letter over and over knowing my child is gone and my other child killed her.

How hard it must have been to look him in the eyes day after day....
To me, this is the heart of this case. On one hand, you have to believe a stranger (read: non-family member) broke into the house, took JB from her room, beat and killed her, then sat down in the kitchen and took the time to write a ransom note for someone who is already dead, and then sneak back out (as Robert Stack used to say, "Motive and identity unknown").

On the other hand, you have to believe a family member killed her intentionally or not, but then one or both parents helped stage the crime scene and wrote a ransom note to cover it all up. Then they had to fake the scene with their friends and the police.

Neither of these really makes sense. I think I would honestly believe the stranger theory if it wasn't for the ransom note. The Ramsey's behavior the next day makes them appear strange, if not guilty, but I'll leave that alone for now. The note is obviously meant to throw off the investigation and everyone agrees with that. It was never meant to be a true ransom note. I think most agree with 99% certainty that it was written by Patsy. So the question is why? The only logical answer is that she did the crime or was helping to cover up for whoever did it. That would be Jon or Burke.

As to why they didn't call 911 or why they would cover it up, I think she just panicked. The only thing worse than losing your child is losing both of your children. JB may have been dead by the time Patsy realized what happened (if we believe that Burke did it). Depending on when this was realized, they would have had hours to think through their strategy. Remember, she was wearing the exact same clothes the next day that she had on the night before.

I really don't want to think the family did this. It makes me sick. But yet the evidence really shows that this is probably what did happen. Unfortunately I don't think we will ever know the truth.

I am by no means a legal expert, but I can't imagine CBS would allow this show to air and name Burke as the likely murderer if they didn't think they were in a good place legally. You have to think losing a lawsuit on this would cost far more than any profit they made from this two-part show.
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Old 01-14-2017, 12:17 PM   #38
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One thing that leads me to believe that someone in the family did it, and covered it up is the ransom note. Someone was brazen enough to break into a rich person's house where tons of people could've been in, murder the daughter, sit down, write a long ransom note, and then disappear?

If an intruder was really that brazen then why not just rob, or steal from the family while you were there? Nothing was ransacked or missing; which is odd because you know they might have jewelry, or money stashed somewhere. I really don't buy the intruder theory. You have the balls to do all of this, but not steal while you're there? Nope.
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Old 01-14-2017, 03:33 PM   #39
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In recent years, both the sexual assault and intruder DNA have been largely discredited. Many of the experts no longer think she had been assaulted that night or earlier. Also, the DNA may have come from anywhere and there is no single sample that is from the likely murderer.

So then we have to ask what was the motive... Thrill killing? Revenge against John or Patsy? If it was, why write the ransom note? The note doesn't help throw off the cops -- it gives them lots of evidence. The garrote is either from some truly sick person or it was another attempt to make the killing look like it was something else.

But again, who breaks in a house, steals a child from her bed, tortures and murders her, and then sits down to write a ransom note? If it was a ransom attempt gone bad, why not write the note before you get there? Seems nuts someone would just sit in a house you broke into and write a multi-page letter before or after the crime.
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Old 01-14-2017, 03:46 PM   #40
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But again, who breaks in a house, steals a child from her bed, tortures and murders her, and then sits down to write a ransom note? If it was a ransom attempt gone bad, why not write the note before you get there? Seems nuts someone would just sit in a house you broke into and write a multi-page letter before or after the crime.
Yep. It's way too farfetched that after killing a young girl someone would have written a note, especially since if they broke in, then time is of the essence. I think it was an accident, maybe playing too rough, or perhaps the father assaulted her. The family freaks out, but decides that calling the cops would have Burke taken away, and them arrested, so they write a "ransom" note, hide her body, and then call the cops. Also you have to remember, they we're very rich with alot of political connections, if it came to light that one of the family members killed her, then their reputation, and resources are shot.

This is just like the Jaclyn Dowaliby case. Someone broke in in the middle of the night shattering a window, walked through the house, kidnap a girl without any fuss, and just disappears into the night? Yet the mother tells contradictions, and wants everyone to believe this BS? If the cops didn't arrest the father without evidence, and didn't turn an angry mob towards the cops, then I'm sure they would have been found guilty. Cops messed it up again.

Both girls we're killed by their families.
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Old 01-15-2017, 11:35 PM   #41
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Quote:
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In recent years, both the sexual assault and intruder DNA have been largely discredited. Many of the experts no longer think she had been assaulted that night or earlier.
Do you have a source on the sexual assault being discredited? I don't think I've heard that before. I've always heard there were indicators that she may have been abused but no concrete proof.
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Old 01-16-2017, 09:28 PM   #42
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Do you have a source on the sexual assault being discredited? I don't think I've heard that before. I've always heard there were indicators that she may have been abused but no concrete proof.

The supposed "proof" of sexual assault was unidentified DNA on her underwear. But it turns out it was "trace DNA" which means casual contact, such as the handling by workers in a factory while they were packaging the underwear.
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Old 01-16-2017, 11:37 PM   #43
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Do you have a source on the sexual assault being discredited? I don't think I've heard that before. I've always heard there were indicators that she may have been abused but no concrete proof.
It was from Dr. Henry Lee and others who said while there were some marks near her private parts, there is not definitive signs of sexual abuse. Originally it was offered that JB had been a victim of long-term SA. Now most forensic experts say that can't be proven. So it's not that it didn't happen, but the theory that she was sexually assaulted in the basement has quited down.
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Old 06-18-2017, 03:04 AM   #44
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The supposed "proof" of sexual assault was unidentified DNA on her underwear. But it turns out it was "trace DNA" which means casual contact, such as the handling by workers in a factory while they were packaging the underwear.
Faint traces of DNA from three different unknown males. Impossible for one to pull off this crime, let alone three, and leave just tiny traces of DNA only on clothing items and not huge amounts all over the place. Not to mention they reduced the usual amount of markers requiring a match, including many more people.

Not only was the body completely wiped down and then redressed, but an odd detail was that the underwear in which JonBenét was found were her usual brand but way too large. Again here is a big red arrow pointing straight back to Patsy. She was known to purchase this same brand of underwear for a niece who was older and would have worn the size or close to the size in which JonBenét was found--indicating that when Patsy redressed JonBenét after the fake assault, she grabbed a pair of underwear from a package in the basement she was saving to give this niece, and disposed of the original underwear. An intruder wouldn't have even known where to look for the other underwear--or have bothered to do so had he known. Obvious lying and coverup to protect the family.
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Old 06-19-2017, 06:32 PM   #45
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I had not heard of that detail about the underwear, Cori. Could you point me towards a link? For the record, while I do want something more solid than "He's weird" to serve as evidence, I am totally on Team Someone in the Family Did It. Too many coincidences with that letter and everything else.
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