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Old 04-22-2013, 10:37 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnsolvedMFanatic
I'm somewhat torn. Knowing who did this,her documented background,there's always the chance she killed him that night,she was a nut-bag. However,I find it equally as plausible that she sold him,turned him over to someone to raise and he's alive and well,simply not knowing who he really is,and his "adoptive" parents having no idea they adopted a stolen child. Or perhaps his "adoptive" parents obtained him illegally and knows very well,but has kept silent.
It's all very open for interpretation,and there was definitely bungling on the part of the PD who investigated his disappearance. I wish UM had done a full segment on this case,rather just adding it at the end of Marlene's story.
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I think there's a third possibility if he was adopted. The parents may know that they got him illegally, but not know he was stolen.
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Old 04-23-2013, 12:44 AM   #17
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Respectfully snipped.
I think there's a third possibility if he was adopted. The parents may know that they got him illegally, but not know he was stolen.
Sounds logical to me! Makes sense.....
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Old 04-23-2013, 03:06 AM   #18
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This is one of those cases that has always stuck with me.

I find it especially cruel that the abductor threatened to harm MARLENE. Since kidnapping and raising Marlene was her apparent goal I don't know why she would have threatened to kill her, unless she figured that was the only way she could get Francesca to give her up.

I'm curious to know how the hosptial staff let the abductor wander around aimlessly all day for several days. I certainly wouldn't allow that at my place of business.

And as i said earlier, the two very different composite sketches on charley project is weird, as is Francesca being discharged in the 9:00 hour at night.

something is just off about this one...can't quite put my finger on it.
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Old 04-23-2013, 10:48 AM   #19
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I think it's kind of odd that the Charley Project page for Marlene brings up the possibility that she was sold for adoption. Because I think that's a strong possibility. The mother being discharged late without anyone to accompany her (I know the UM segment showed her leaving with 2 other family members/friends, but according to the Charley Project page it just says she left with the abductor and Marlene), her sketchy description of the abductor and the vehicle, and the oddity about the abductor threatening to shoot Marlene point to a possible cover story for an illegal adoption.
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Old 04-23-2013, 01:15 PM   #20
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I think it's kind of odd that the Charley Project page for Marlene brings up the possibility that she was sold for adoption. Because I think that's a strong possibility. The mother being discharged late without anyone to accompany her (I know the UM segment showed her leaving with 2 other family members/friends, but according to the Charley Project page it just says she left with the abductor and Marlene), her sketchy description of the abductor and the vehicle, and the oddity about the abductor threatening to shoot Marlene point to a possible cover story for an illegal adoption.
That's logical, but why do you think Francesca even went on the show then? I don't think it's at all out of the question, but just wanted to know your thoughts on it.
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Old 04-23-2013, 02:27 PM   #21
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I always suspected that the abductor might have been a member of an illegal adoption ring. The authorities theorized that she may have wanted to abduct a child to raise as her own, but she was a white woman, so it's strange that she'd choose to abduct a Hispanic baby since that would raise all sorts of suspicions about the child not being hers.
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Old 04-23-2013, 04:32 PM   #22
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Quote:
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That's logical, but why do you think Francesca even went on the show then? I don't think it's at all out of the question, but just wanted to know your thoughts on it.
I'm not saying I'm convinced she wasn't abducted, I just think both are equal possibilities. If Francesca did arrange the illegal adoption, I could see how she has regrets about doing it which is why she went on UM to try and find her daughter.

Maybe it's just me, but I find it extremely odd that no one in the hospital thought to question this strange lady seen lingering around, especially if she was in the hallways for an extended period of time. And it's been awhile since I've seen the segment, but IIRC, wasn't the abductor waiting around for an extended period of time before Francesca was even checked out? I just find it odd that her intended purpose was to abduct Marlene only to threaten to kill her if Francesca did not comply. Unless of course this was done so Francesca would follow her without question.
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Old 04-23-2013, 07:32 PM   #23
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Quote:
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I'm not saying I'm convinced she wasn't abducted, I just think both are equal possibilities. If Francesca did arrange the illegal adoption, I could see how she has regrets about doing it which is why she went on UM to try and find her daughter.

Maybe it's just me, but I find it extremely odd that no one in the hospital thought to question this strange lady seen lingering around, especially if she was in the hallways for an extended period of time. And it's been awhile since I've seen the segment, but IIRC, wasn't the abductor waiting around for an extended period of time before Francesca was even checked out? I just find it odd that her intended purpose was to abduct Marlene only to threaten to kill her if Francesca did not comply. Unless of course this was done so Francesca would follow her without question.
I can see how that would make for a cooked-up story. Like you though, I can also see how it could've actually gone down just like that.

Yes, the abductor was waiting around for a while. Francesca said the woman even stood at the nursery window and remarked to her that Marlene was the "quiestest and prettiest baby" there.

The hospital Marlene was born in was and still is Brookdale University's teaching hospital. It's large now and probably was in 1985. If the abductor was just hanging out in the maternity unit basically all day, I can't envision a nurse failing to notice and speak to her, at the very least. I'm almost certain one of them would've done that.
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:24 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCars1986
Maybe it's just me, but I find it extremely odd that no one in the hospital thought to question this strange lady seen lingering around, especially if she was in the hallways for an extended period of time. And it's been awhile since I've seen the segment, but IIRC, wasn't the abductor waiting around for an extended period of time before Francesca was even checked out? I just find it odd that her intended purpose was to abduct Marlene only to threaten to kill her if Francesca did not comply. Unless of course this was done so Francesca would follow her without question.
no, it's not just you. I said the same thing yesterday in this thread.
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:31 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinW
I always suspected that the abductor might have been a member of an illegal adoption ring. The authorities theorized that she may have wanted to abduct a child to raise as her own, but she was a white woman, so it's strange that she'd choose to abduct a Hispanic baby since that would raise all sorts of suspicions about the child not being hers.
the Charley project describes her as a white woman with Hispanic features and no accent. The first composite sketch on Charley Project is the same one we saw on UM and it looks like a white woman. The second composite sketch on Charley Project looks more like a Hispanic woman. It's all very weird.
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:43 AM   #26
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Maybe a rich family bought the baby ? They were so desperate for a baby, they didn't care about the race or the sex ?

Another thing that's weird. Before a mom and her baby can be discharged, there has to be a car-seat properly in the car. The baby can't leave until there's one to bring them home in. I'm almost positive that includes the US.

Was there any cameras ? Especially in the nursery and the entrance ? The abductor was likely there all day checking out what baby would be the easiest to kidnap. The mom was likely by herself, perfect opportunity.

This is a sad case. I hope the family someday finds answers. And maybe bring their child home. Hospitals really have to crackdown on shady people hanging around the newborns.
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:56 AM   #27
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After a bit of research, I found that yes, infant seats were law in New York after April 1, 1982. So that's an excellent point.
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Old 04-24-2013, 06:26 AM   #28
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After a bit of research, I found that yes, infant seats were law in New York after April 1, 1982. So that's an excellent point.
OK I was under the impression that she was released to her mother who was on foot and apparently taking public transportation (which I would expect was the norm in NYC) or possibly a taxi. Being the time period (much less enforcement of the law) and public transporation being involved, I would expect she would be just carrying the baby. Wow, I would be too scared to just carry my baby around in NYC.

Or was there a car involved that she was about to ride in? If so I would expect an infant seat, but again in 1985 I would guess a lot of babies still rode in their mother's arms.

I hear that around here you aren't going anywhere with a newborn from the hospital without an infant seat. If you don't have one usually they give them away. If nothing else for the liability.
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Old 04-24-2013, 11:20 AM   #29
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Quote:
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Or was there a car involved that she was about to ride in? If so I would expect an infant seat, but again in 1985 I would guess a lot of babies still rode in their mother's arms.

I hear that around here you aren't going anywhere with a newborn from the hospital without an infant seat. If you don't have one usually they give them away. If nothing else for the liability.
I was born in 86 and my grandmother held me in the backseat of the car. I imagine the laws were a lot more relaxed back in the 80's. You could still smoke in the hospital when I was born!
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:07 PM   #30
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When my kids were born in 87 and 89, I remember them telling us in the childbirth classes that we were expected to bring a properly fitted car seat to the hospital to pick up the baby at the time of discharge.

In 87, I vaguely remember being asked if I had a car seat when I took my son home. At a different hospital in 89, I think they just threw me out the door without checking on a car seat.

In the 80s, it was the law in michigan that kid under a certain age had to be in car seats but when I was in a car accident in 87, with my 5 month old son in the car, the police had my car towed and wouldn't let me get anything out of it, including my son's car seat.

A drunk driver had hit 3 cars, mine being the last, and sent a bunch of people to the hospital. I was stopped at a red light and was totally innocent. The cop taking my statement had me sit in the front of his car while my sister in law took care of my son.

I couldn't believe that he refused to let me get my son's car seat and even his pacifier out of my car before he had it towed. I couldn't get anything from it for 3 days, IIRC. I had no way of buying or borrowing a car seat to even get home from the accident scene, so I just held my son while my dad drove my sisters in law and me home. It was very unnerving, after just being in a multi-car accident where a car seat likely saved my son's life, to being driven home on a dark raining night just holding the baby on my lap.

So just from personal experience, there's a couple of instances where in the 80s, police and a hospital didn't care that a baby didn't have a car seat. I can see where the hospital might not have checked to see if Marlene was going to be driven home safely.
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