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Old 02-02-2019, 09:14 AM   #1
Yong Fang
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Default Ray and Debra were my least favorite characters.

Does anyone else agree?

I would have changed the show to have made the parents the central characters and Robert and Amy their son and daughter in law. Frank and Marie were the funny ones. They to me was the source of much of the humor of the show.

Ray Ramano was one dimensional and Debra (although Patricia Heaton was gorgeous) was angry all the time. When they were the central point of the story, the show was boring. Robert was great however and while other fans didn’t like her, I really liked Amy a lot and wished those two had their own show, or really those two and the parents and Ray and Debra written out completely.

Could have expanded this to ask, central characters which could have been written out that wouldn’t have been missed (Melissa McCarthy on Mike and Molly) but this is good too.
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Old 02-02-2019, 11:09 AM   #2
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Yeah, I recently posted my favorite episodes in another thread, and realized the show got better the farther you moved from the Ray-Debra relationship.
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Old 02-02-2019, 11:33 AM   #3
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I never liked Debra.
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Old 02-02-2019, 01:53 PM   #4
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Ray is my least favorite character, his whiny voice is annoying. Frank and Marie were great, however the dynamics of the show would not have been the same if Robert had been the only child, he wouldn't have had anything to be jealous about with Ray being Marie's favorite. And Marie and Debra constantly clashing was a big part of the show too. A Robert and Amy spin-off with her parents and brother might have worked.
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Old 02-02-2019, 02:46 PM   #5
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I don’t think I have A LEAST favorite key character. And DEFINITELY NOT Debra and Raymond. Maybe the very minor ones, like some of Frank’s friends...
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Old 02-02-2019, 06:23 PM   #6
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A show I would have done which cannot be done since several of the actors have passed away would have been a show I would call “Assisted Living” with Frank and Marie, Frank Constanza (Jerry Stiller) and his wife plus the Seinfeld parents. Basically where the Seinfeld parents lived with the same side characters as the Seinfeld retirement home. (Add Dominick Chianese, who played Junior Soprano as a bonus). Basically everyone disliked each other and every week the different characters would go at each other.

This show would have been a RIOT. But now again, at least Frank and Marie has died and the other a tors are now very old. Idea missed.
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Old 02-02-2019, 06:31 PM   #7
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A show I would have done which cannot be done since several of the actors have passed away would have been a show I would call “Assisted Living” with Frank and Marie, Frank Constanza (Jerry Stiller) and his wife plus the Seinfeld parents. Basically where the Seinfeld parents lived with the same side characters as the Seinfeld retirement home. (Add Dominick Chianese, who played Junior Soprano as a bonus). Basically everyone disliked each other and every week the different characters would go at each other.

This show would have been a RIOT. But now again, at least Frank and Marie has died and the other a tors are now very old. Idea missed.
That would have been a good show.
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Old 02-02-2019, 09:31 PM   #8
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In the first season episodes the Debra character seemed to have a normal husband/wife relationship with Ray (other than when she dumped a dish of ice cream in his lap). Gradually the show changed the relationship, to the point that she seemed not to be able to stand him. This built up to a fourth season episode where she seemed to go bonkers (to the point of violence), taking on a Jekyll-Hyde persona (ostensibly due to female issues). The episode was over the top, IMO. And many, many later episodes were based on her seeming dislike of her husband (including a very funny visit to a marriage counselor). He was somewhat of a lout, but it's hard to know whether it was due to his nature, or her constant badgering. I'd suspect the latter, as he seemed relatively normal in the first season.

I do agree Patricia Heaton is a fine actress, and played the part as directed and written. Any changes in her persona and in the Ray/Debra relationship were the responsibility of the show, not the actors. They probably made gradual changes after the first season due to the ratings.

I agree that the funniest episodes centered on Frank and Marie. The ninth season episode where they moved into a retirement community (and were kicked out) was hilarious--probably one of the best in the series. They could have kept them there and spun it off, and also focus on the Robert/Amy relationship.

As was mentioned a few of these actors are now gone--Doris Roberts and Peter Boyle, and one of the Sweeten twins committed suicide.
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Old 03-02-2019, 03:35 PM   #9
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I don’t think I have A LEAST favorite key character. And DEFINITELY NOT Debra and Raymond. Maybe the very minor ones, like some of Frank’s friends...
Garvin is who got on my nerves out of who Frank liked to hang out with.

God bless you always!!!

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Old 03-02-2019, 08:31 PM   #10
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If he's the one who always yelled, Hey! Ray's here!, he got on my nerves, too. With the death of Katherine Helmond last week, probably all of that generation of actors from the show, are gone.
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Old 03-02-2019, 10:18 PM   #11
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If he's the one who always yelled, Hey! Ray's here!, he got on my nerves, too. With the death of Katherine Helmond last week, probably all of that generation of actors from the show, are gone.
Me three. I also could have lived without Stan and Lee.
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Old 05-17-2019, 06:42 PM   #12
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Raymond to me was a good guy, but he was very immature, lazy and frankly just stupid. He was also a “mama’s boy” and a lot of the comedy of the series was the strife between Debra and Marie. But in many ways, Raymond is still like a 12 year old kid. Raymond was immature and I think this was a lot of the problems.
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Old 05-17-2019, 09:44 PM   #13
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^^^ I second this. To me, when Ray actually had a good moment, the moment could've been considered something special. He put the wedding vow renewal ceremony together himself after realizing that he ruined the wedding video. His intention was to have Robert be the one who was written about in the paper after Robert stopped the Nemo's robbery during their ride along. I love what he wrote about Debra in the paper after he forgot to thank her during his honorary degree acceptance speech. He also helped Robert make a choice where retiring from being a cop was concerned as well as coming to Robert's defense after learning how Amy's parents felt about her getting married to Robert. I also love when he comes to Debra's defense when he finds out about how Frank's friends look at her. By the way, did she ever say "Thank you." to him for that? The only thing that I remember is her telling Ray and Frank that she didn't need them to come to her rescue. My, what a hypocrite that makes her. If she doesn't need help there, why does she get onto Ray so much where Marie's criticism is concerned? Do keep in mind that even though he was quiet for most of the show, there were at least four times where he actually had something to say and say it he did. He got onto his mom for bringing a turkey over to his house for Thanksgiving when the main food was supposed to be a fish that Debra cooked. He got onto her for sabotaging Debra's meat ball cooking. He jumped on Marie after his living room wall, front door, and window were restored from her backing a car into it and then of course when she and Frank were kicked out of the retirement home, that I believe was the last time that he said what needed to be out there.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

P.S. The sad thing is that nothing ever made any good difference no matter who the bawling out came from.
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Old 05-18-2019, 11:35 AM   #14
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I think of Ray and Debra as average, mediocre people. They don't really excel at anything, but they expect more from each other than they are each willing or able to give.

Ray seems like someone who just wants to come home and relax after work but he has this wife who expects him to take an active parenting role.

Debra's not a great "homemaker" or cook and according to Marie she usually just has her kids in front of the TV when they are home. Sometimes it seems like her attitude is inspired by the fact that Ray doesn't put much effort into his home life so why should she put effort in and just make it easy on him?

They have moments where they do well and actually thrive but mostly they just trudge through life with complaints about each other and the burden of having Ray's parents always interfering in their lives.

I think the most interesting thing about how they are living is the fact that it was Debra who wanted to move so close to Ray's parents and Ray was completely against it.
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Old 05-19-2019, 03:12 PM   #15
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Raymond to me was a good guy, but he was very immature, lazy and frankly just stupid. He was also a “mama’s boy” and a lot of the comedy of the series was the strife between Debra and Marie. But in many ways, Raymond is still like a 12 year old kid. Raymond was immature and I think this was a lot of the problems.
Really they should’ve never got married and had a family. It’s clear Ray didn’t want the responsibilities of being a father, and maybe Debra thought being a mother was too overwhelming. No one’s going to say it, but having kids made them both miserable.
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