What do you believe happened to the following people?

[MegtheEgg86]

Originally Posted by WishfulDreamer

How about Audrey Moate? I think that the scary backwoods guy did it for sure. And I think it was a sex crime, unlike what he told his kids about his common law wife doing it. His boot at the crime scene and the scene at the car just says it all. His story about it being in the house is suchhhhhhhh BS.

Yes, I tend to agree with that.

[1990 UM fan]

Originally Posted by LaurierCrimmajor

Gimme more names!!!!!

I need to but can't seem to find 10 more good ones

[1990 UM fan]

Here's 10 more for you:

Blair Adams
Tim Molnar
Terri McClure
Mike Riemer and Diana Robertson
Mike O'Mara
Chad Langford
Steve Sandlin
Jay Given
Jay Cook and Tanya Van Cuylenborg
JonBenet Ramsey

[McBevis]

Originally Posted by 1990 UM fan

Here's 10 more for you:

Blair Adams
Tim Molnar
Terri McClure
Mike Riemer and Diana Robertson
Mike O'Mara
Chad Langford
Steve Sandlin
Jay Given
Jay Cook and Tanya Van Cuylenborg
JonBenet Ramsey

Blair Adams - Based on the way he was found, and that his money and other valuables were scattered all over the place, I think it's a pretty good bet that his actual death was a murder. However, I couldn't even begin to imagine who did it or why, and I'm strongly in agreement with the theory that he was probably traveling aimlessly in a confused and delusional state, and I doubt very much that whoever killed him was actually chasing him all over the U.S. and Canada.

Tim Molnar - I'm really not too sure about this one, because, aside from the fact that he was known to become moody and depressed, there's a frustrating lack of reasoning for why he took off in the first place, but I think that the following theory could be a possibility: he ran away from home to "find himself" and met somebody along the way that killed him. The circumstances of how and where he was eventually found seem a little bizarre for suicide.

Terri McClure - I honestly have no clue, and out of all of the cases presented on UM where there's question of whether someone under suspicion is innocent or guilty, this one is definitely near the top of my list of ones where it's impossible to lean more in one direction. From a pure personality standpoint, Tim McClure seems like an unlikely murder suspect, because from what we know from the segment, he was very close with his mother and seems to be about the last person that might want to see her dead (and I thought he seemed pretty sincere in his interview), but there are also some very troublesome aspects to his story, most notably his covering pretty much the entire area but somehow ending up missing the spot where his mother was found, the story about needing to find the purse, and his decision to have his mother's credit card cancelled almost immediately after her death. He said that he felt a strong sense of foreboding (something like a little voice inside your head saying "don't go in that parking lot"). Such freakish coincidences are not outright impossible, but I must admit I have a lot of difficulty believing it in this case. So when I think about these circumstances, I'm inclined to believe that he probably killed his mother, but when I think about Tim himself and his easygoing personality and the admiration and respect he apparently had for his mother, then the possibility of him killing her seems harder to swallow.

Mike Riemer and Diana Robertson - A very shady case for sure, but if I had to bet on it, I think that Mike probably killed her, though there is one major circumstance (that I'll touch on in a little bit) that might weaken that scenario a bit. They were known to have a very volatile relationship, and Diana's mother who was interviewed believed that he was very capable of such a thing. Even though his remains were found recently, that doesn't do much to alter my opinion in this case, because they were only FOUND recently; for all anyone knows, they could have been there for years, and that huge expanse of dense wilderness is certainly just the type of place where remains (or a lot of other things, for that matter) could go unnoticed for years, or even forever. Anyway, I think that he and Diana probably got into a nasty argument that ultimately ended with him killing her, after which he disappeared into the woods and either killed himself or died as a result of running out of survival apparatus. However, the one thing that I prefaced earlier that might throw a wrench into that scenario is, why would he leave his small daughter all alone in a scary place like that, and if he was planning to murder Diana, why wouldn't he have dropped his daughter with Diana's mother instead of bringing her along to witness something so unspeakably tragic? That whole part of it makes no sense at all.

Mike O'Mara - Despite some strong insistences to the contrary, I'm more inclined to believe that he took his own life. Though he seemed happy when he left to buy the frozen yogurt, one person who discussed this case at great length on another thread about this case believes that he was either hiding a deep depression or may have encountered something during that short trip out that may have him to become incurably despondent, and suggested that he staged the suicide to look like a murder so that his wife would be able to get a life insurance payout that would have been denied if it was able to be proven that Mike O'Mara did in fact kill himself.

Chad Langford - Hard to say for sure, especially since it has a military angle, but in some ways it's a lot like the Justin Burgwinkel case in that Chad was more moody, tempermental, and secretive in the weeks before his death than he was known to be in general, likely because of his involvement in some shady military business, and I think that he was either seen as a risk and murdered, or the pressure just became too much and he committed suicide, which he unfortunately may have felt was his only choice, because when you're in the military and you have difficulty handling high-pressure situations, you can't just go up to your superior and say "I've had it. I want out." It unfortunately does not work that way in the military.

Steve Sandlin - I tend to go with the generally-accepted theory that he became privy to some information concerning illegal activity and was murdered by one or more of the people involved in it. I do not believe that he committed suicide.

Jay Given - Because of the political angle, this is a frustratingly multi-layered case that probably won't ever be fully explained, but I think it's nothing less than right on that John Cardona is considered the prime suspect. Some of the more suspicious aspects of this case overwhelmingly point to him, such as being one of only about 3 or 4 people with access to that evidence drawer, and the only one among them whose activity couldn't be accounted for during the time it was broken in to, and the fact that he owned a gun that was the same type as the one used in the murder, and if I remember correctly from the segment, this particular type of gun is supposed to be extremely rare (fewer than 100 known to be in circulation worldwide).

Jay Cook & Tanya Van Cuylenborg - They met someone in the midst of their trip who may have had the hots for Tanya. I think this person murdered Jay to get him out of the picture and then did likewise with Tanya after she refused to let him get anywhere with her. Interestingly, something I did find out recently that only makes this case more confusing: the person who sent the morbid greeting cards to the families was finally identified (though not publicly) as a long-incarcerated mental patient who is not considered a suspect in the murders and most likely never met the victims at all.

JonBenet Ramsey - This case has been so badly bungled almost every step of the way and not only will we probably never know the real truth, but between bogus confessions by attention-seeking nobodys and suspicion about the parents being involved, but never enough concrete evidence to charge them with anything, I really wouldn't even have a good idea of where to start looking. About the only thing I feel strongly about is that there's something not quite right about the circumstances leading up to the discovery of her body. How her parents went all out looking in all sorts of places only to discover that their daughter was on the basement floor can only mean one of two things: either that they're incredibly, incredibly stupid if they honestly and sincerely didn't think to check the basement, or, more likely, they knew that's where she was all the time and did everything they could to try to distract attention away from the basement.

[MegtheEgg86]

Blair Adams: One of my favorite ones; most of it happened in my hometown. I've probably changed my mind more times on this case than on any other. I think Blair was having distress unrelated to what ultimately happened to him. I think it was a sex crime perpetrated by people Blair may have just met or who were perfect strangers to him. Male-on-male rape isn't discussed a lot, but it does definitely happen and more frequently than many may think.

Tim Molnar: Too little info in the UM segment for me to form a good opinion, personally. So as of now, no idea.

Terri McClure: I'm 95% sure Tim McClure was involved.

Mike Riemer and Diana Robertson: In the minority on this one. I think Mike and Diana were killed by a third party, possibly someone they knew.

Mike O'Mara: I think he was murdered.

Chad Langford: That kid got mixed up with some bad, bad soldiers on post. There are thugs in the military just like there are thugs in the civilian world. I don't know if he was in on the PX robbery plot or he was in fact doing some kind of informant-type work, but I think he was killed by some associates. I never thought suicide was a good theory here.

Steve Sandlin: He was murdered.

Jay Cook and Tanya Van Cuylenborg: I think that's the work of some serial type of individual who preyed on couples. I think he may have been transient and might have committed similar crimes across the U.S. and/or Canada.

JonBenet Ramsey: The police screwed this one up from the start. I don't at all think her parents were responsible. I think it might have been someone close to the family or John Ramsey on a professional level.

[WishfulDreamer]

Blair Adams- I think he was displaying tendencies of mental breakdown with the paranoia and such and that the murderer tragically had nothing to do with him and targeted him in his vulnerability.

Tim Molnar-Sounds like he drove off due to his own volition and somebody killed him when he reached the other state. Probably another tragic, random crime.

Terri McClure- Tim seems sincere, but I find this "Holy Spirit" thing and purse thing to be so odd. Also to kill her for $5k seems just silly. I'm on the fence.

Mike Riemer and Diana Robertson- For years I thought Mike did it. The abuse, the signs of a crime of passion, the daughter being dropped off at the store. But how would his remains have only have JUST been found if he offed himself in the woods? I'm not 100% convinced just yet, but I think this may have been a third party who decided to bury Mike to make it seem like he did it. I don't think it was the guy who killed the other couples because it doesn't fit the MO at all, but it may have been a sick third party. One thing that keeps me from latching to this theory too strongly is dropping the daughter off and the daughter not having (apparently) seen anything but that her mother was in the trees. I would think she would have been upset if she saw her mother in pain, no matter how young. Would a random killer have told her to go play while he killed her mother with so many stab wounds? And would he have enough empathy to spare a young child?

Mike O'Mara- I thought this one was a murder.

Chad Langford- It seems like a hell of a way to kill oneself and I don't buy it. Seems like he was in the wrong crowd here.

Steve Sandlin- Totally murdered. I don't buy that a guy so invested in his job would off himself even if disappointed in his dream job. "Oh, I just tried it for a little while but I'm bummed so that's it"-No, I don't believe it.

Jay Given- Murdered probably due to the political angle.

Jay Cook and Tanya Van Cuylenborg- I think somebody saw them and because this was also a sex crime, I think he was latched onto Tanya and wanted to get Jay out of the way. So he probably got them to give him a ride than overpowered them. Was Tanya's cause of death explained, because I don't remember them explicitly saying it? Jay also, it sounded like they just said "obviously murdered." I think this guy had been in prison before and was a very violent offender who was also a sadistic sex offender. He may have had some sort of weapon or was just physically stronger than Jay and Tanya together and was able to overpower them and then tie them up with the zip-ties. To this day, I can't look at zip ties without thinking of this case. It chills my blood.

JonBenet Ramsey- I've been wondering for years. I think it's so suspicious that the parents didn't check the basement, but also the police bungled it. On the fence.

[Steve W.]

"Was Tanya's cause of death explained, because I don't remember them explicitly saying it?"

The murderer shot her in the head after raping her.

[WishfulDreamer]

Originally Posted by Steve W.

"Was Tanya's cause of death explained, because I don't remember them explicitly saying it?"

The murderer shot her in the head after raping her.

Then that totally explains how they were overpowered He kept them at gunpoint the whole time.

[LaurierCrimmajor]

Blair Adams:
Too many hallmarks and red flags lead me towards mental illness over foul play. Now, that isn’t to rule out that some random act of violence could’ve been precipitated by his erratic, somewhat muddled behavior, which may have placed him in a highly dangerous situation, leaving him vulnerable to exploitation. That very well may have been the case, however I think the root of this case is Blair’s emotional state and well being.

Tim Molnar:
The fact that he nearly emptied out his entire bank account feels like he intentionally dropped off the grid. The details surrounding his family life came across as rather vague to me and given the eventual success of his siblings and his own high level scholastic pursuits, I wouldn’t rule out that he simply succumbed to the pressure of high standards and chose a life that was on a completely different path.

Terri McClure:
Damn, this sure is a wild one! The son is the last one to see her, is painted as something of a black sheep and is steeped in suspicious behavior. The way he searched for her is suspect(avoiding driving through the ONE casino his mother’s body is actually in), calling to cancel the credit card prior to her body’s discovery(major screw-up on his part) and the specific search for her purse, when it was eventually discovered to be the only item missing from her person. Tim going to UM feels like subterfuge to divert suspicion away from himself, which I think didn’t do him any favors. His alibi is that he gambled alone for 2 hours, which isn’t airtight by any stretch and the fact that his whereabouts are basically unsubstantiated, paints a bullseye on him IMO. The son strikes me as a dumb hustler type and while all of these little inconsistencies taken alone simply seems a tad weird, taken altogether makes for a strong case for the son’s involvement. From here, I think this is the work of a sloppy and careless amateur. Failing the polygraph screams that he was arrogantly confident enough that he could dupe it, much like his other actions and is another addition to the growing list of hinky things, that make him a great suspect. The motive of the son trying to start a new life with his wife by ridding his mother and getting a nice chunk of money for a nest egg sits well with me.

Mike Riemer and Diana Robertson:
Given that they’ve found Mike Riemer’s remains in the forest all these years later, the possibility that they were both killed has more legs, especially when you factor in the previous double murder of the couple close to Mike’s traps. That said, I wouldn’t completely rule out that Riemer killed Diana and then dropped off their daughter at the grocery store before he went back to take his own life after a domestic altercation (given their history of domestic violence and the note left in the car fits in here). That plays here quite well IMO. However, family annihilators don’t often consider leaving the child alive to be a viable option (as their mental state is often clouded with delusions and a belief that the child will be better off in heaven etc.), but is not impossible. Now, given that both Mike and Diana have been declared dead in the forest, the sock connection to the first double homicide, is VERY interesting. It is awfully risky for a serial killer to leave a living, breathing witness such as the daughter for they are quite risk adverse, although it is not beyond the realm of possibility, especially if he kills for a specific purpose that precludes children. A serial killer is a definite and terrifying possibility, as is a murder-suicide. I’m 50/50 here.


Mike O'Mara:
Mob hit? Possible. Random act? Possible too. No evidence of a struggle is weird, but so is walking out into the middle of a field, leaving of the gas pump during a frozen yogurt run. I never buy the “not in their nature” defense against suicides, no matter how well you know an individual, nobody can truly gauge what is going on in someone else’s head and what circumstances may have been involved, however it doesn’t add up well enough to convince me it was a suicide. Very quizzical and quite a mystery to me.

Chad Langford:
Attitude changes are never a good sign. What sticks out to me is that as an “undercover MP”, if he were legitimately receiving threats and phone calls, he and his handlers would have immediately known his cover was blown, whatever the case he was working. That would’ve placed him on a high level of alert and anything he would’ve been working on would’ve either gone into motion(thus arrests) or been cut off. Those are the most viable leads to begin with. BUT, once it comes to light that CID states he was never working undercover for them at all, suicide becomes a far more belivable outcome. Psychological autopsies aren’t set in stone by any means, but they aren’t complete rubbish either and are a valuable asset in gaining a better insight into a persons actions when they may not be totally understandable. Couple that with CID’s discovery that he may or may not have been the ringleader in a botched robbery and recently experienced a broken relationship and I think there’s alot of smoke around his personal life that could’ve been looking for a way out. The final calls to close friends is another sign towards suicide. There isn’t alot of hard evidence to give much credence to a secret plot or espionage or anything too concrete to buy a conspiracy. IMO, he probably committed suicide and the family is understandabily so, incapable of accepting it.

Steve Sandlin:
I’m more likely to buy this case an accident or possible foul play over suicide than most questionable cases due to the fact that he was a very green rookie, which wouldn’t place him in too much danger within law enforcement or on the inside of some criminal conspiracy, but it isn’t impossible. Could he have stumbled upon police involvement in local pot operations for example? Maybe, but how much can you really gauge in 8 weeks? Busting a major pot dealer and getting death threats is a good lead, especially if a police officer was greenlit by local dealers to send a message. Furthermore, if local PD were getting a cut and a new kid was getting too big for their britches, I think he could’ve been viewed as a liability, but that is a pretty thin line to go on without much more to back it up. The gun being two feet away from his body is a little hinky, but if he was playing with the gun(and his mother doesn’t deny that he would’ve ever done such a thing), it is foreseeable that he it may have gone off in innocent bungled accident. Grieving families will often grasp at anything to give explanation and comfort after a loss and buying into a conspiracy helps out. I’m 50% on this being a tragic accident of a young, raw rookie and split 25% on either suicide or foul play.


Jay Cook and Tanya Van Cuylenborg:
Strikes me as a case where a violent sex offender asked for a ride and took advantage of two young, unsuspecting people.

JonBenet Ramsey:
I’ve studied this case at great length in school. The information in the ransom note that asked for a price eerily similar to what Mr. Ramsey had gotten in year-end bonus raises some flags. An incredible amount of crucial forensic and investigative information and evidence was missed and this entire case was completely bungled from jumpstreet, which makes it all the more difficult to solve, since so many puzzle pieces aren’t availible. Sadly, I think that so much of the crime scene and initial investigation was flawed and focused on the Ramseys(make no mistake, they SHOULD'VE been looked at hard, but only up to a certain point) by unqualified investigators in this realm of homicide, that this will never be solved unless somebody’s gets popped in the correctional system database. I’ve read a few interesting takes on John Mark Karr and while I approach them with a great deal of incredulity, they’re quite interesting. Given the number of burgleries in the area and the number of people the Ramseys’ had in their home on the weeks leading up to the murder, there are a plethora of suspects and I think it’s a needle in a haystack scenario now, but it didn’t have to be this way. John Douglas has written some very enlightening stuff about this case and while he’s a bit of a blowhard at times, he knows his stuff.

[mwcarolina]

there's alot here, i will answer some of the ones that i know most about or have followed most.

Originally Posted by 1990 UM fan

Jodi Huisentruit
Angela Hammond
Lauria Bible and Ashley Freeman

1) didnt follow Huisentruit as much, BUT my theory is fairly simple. i think she was likely stalked by some crazed fan, abducted, likely raped and then killed.
2) Followed this case ALOT, still the same opinion. i think she also was likely killed, likely by the dirty man talked about, kidnapped, raped and is dead and if i had to guess who the guy is, he's an out of towner serial killer who saw a sick opportunity and her body is either in his town or closer to him, like maybe his yard.
3) Bible and Freeman were likely abducted, raped and killed. the who is the tough one to answer.

Originally Posted by 1990 UM fan

Katherine Korzilius
Anthonette Cayedito

1) this is where there are differences with almost everyone. my theory is a guy tried to kidnap her, she fought back, the kidnapper pushed her, accidently killed her and layed her body on the street, dont think it was her falling off the car.
2) i think Cayedito was kidnapped by someone her family knows, is today dead, dont know if the girl in the restaurant was her, it's possible, but i think today she's dead.

Originally Posted by 1990 UM fan

Blair Adams
JonBenet Ramsey
1) Adams is a compelling case, i think he likely was running from something and just happened to be killed by some guy for some unknown reason. dont know if the killer was what scared him or if this was a random guy attacking a random guy.
2) i feel that someone who knew the family did this, i think he knew where to go and how to get there and the layout. i dont think the dad did this, but i think it's someone he knows.

Originally Posted by 1990 UM fan

Charlotte Pollis
Doreen Marfeo

1) i think Paul Pollis killed Charlotte. the guy came off as smug and arrogant and his line on cleaning just made him sound more guilty than innocent. i think the parents likely helped, though i dont think they did the killing.
2) As for Marfeo, i have no question that it was the husban, he killed his last wife, then himself and wrote a note that made it sound like he did it. i think it was Marfeo.

Originally Posted by 1990 UM fan

Cecilia Newball & Rene Perez Jr.
Morgan Nick
Pamela Page

1) the first case is toughest for me. if i had the guess, either the husband did it or it was someone who wanted to get the husband back or get with the husband and i think the woman calling helped in the killing or even did it.
2) i think Morgan Nick was kidnapped by that guy that her friends described as creepy, likely raped and killed
3) as for Pam Page, despite what the police say, i think the husband (again) did this. i wouldnt suspect him if he hadnt changed his story like he did, what was the point of making up a story in the first place!!!!! BUT with that said, cant charge him for the killing as he's no longer alive.

[welshman]

Originally Posted by Matt C

Like Mike's dad said, they got him first.

Couldn't he have shot himself in the heart and the head was moved later by animals?