Is This When The Waltons Jumped The Shark?

[mattyg1306]

Originally Posted by Mrs. Ducky

IMO, season 7 is one of The Walton's best, even with the absence of Richard Thomas and the passing of Will Geer. Many of these episodes are really good such as the one centering around Pearl Harbor, Ben and Cindy eloping (I really liked her character), Jim-Bob realizing he'll never be able to join the Air Corp because of his eyesight, Ike's heart attack, and Corabeth's struggle with alcoholism among others. Even though the show had passed it's prime, I don't think the s*** really hit the fan until Rose, Jeffrey, and Serena showed up and Olivia left for good.

I realize this is an old thread, and it will probably be months or years before anyone reads this.

I agree that Season Seven was one of the best. I also agree with those who say the show really jumped the shark with the addition of Rose, Serena, and Jeffrey (I refer to them collectively as the "Cousin Oliver" of "The Waltons" lol), and also the appearance of "faux" John-Boy. There is one interesting FACT that I came across a long time ago that proves that we weren't the only ones who felt this way: At the conclusion of Season Seven, the show's fate was up in the air as most actors' contracts were up, and the ratings weren't what they had been a couple seasons earlier. Earl Hamner and company put together an episode that in itself could serve as a series finale...it was called "Founder's Day", and Hamner's own narration (along with a musical montage performed by "Jason" Jon Walmsley) at the end of that episode actually summed up the meaning of the entire series, and brought things to a very satisfactory end.

IMO, I hate to say it, its too bad the network wasn't quite ready to let go of the show, and renewed it for two more seasons, forcing the writers to develop new storylines, after all plausible and decent storylines had already been exhausted. This happens a lot with other shows it seems...programs are drawn out WAY beyond their "calling", just so the network is greedy and can milk it for ratings money (I'd say the most recent example of this is The WB's "7th Heaven"...that show ran out of decent storylines after season six...but continued for FIVE more years...even being cancelled and having an advertised series finale, then coming back with a cast of completely new actors...RIDICULOUS!). The thing about it is, even had they ended with season seven, the show still would have made syndication, and would have had 150+ episodes, meaning it likely still would have gotten all the air time in reruns that it does today.

Anyway, does anyone else think this would have been a better place to end the series...saving us from faux John Boy etc.? Also, wouldn't it be nice to look back on the series with a nice solid conclusion like "Founder's Day", rather than "The Revel" and the three ridiculous post series movies (I did like the 1990s reunion films...they still could have made the storylines in them plausible even if the show ended two years sooner)?

[TV Knowledge Fan]

..."THE WALTONS" were to CBS. If it had ended two seasons earlier, that might have been a good thing. But the reason the network kept renewing it was because they had very few "hits" in the late '70s (NBC renewed "LITTLE HOUSE" for the same reason, also lasting nine seasons- about two or three too many). When CBS finally found an appropriate replacement for the series on Thursdays ["MAGNUM P.I."], "THE WALTONS" ended. Then, the "reunion" movies followed....on NBC?

[mattyg1306]

Originally Posted by TV Knowledge Fan

..."THE WALTONS" were to CBS. If it had ended two seasons earlier, that might have been a good thing. But the reason the network kept renewing it was because they had very few "hits" in the late '70s (NBC renewed "LITTLE HOUSE" for the same reason, also lasting nine seasons- about two or three too many). When CBS finally found an appropriate replacement for the series on Thursdays ["MAGNUM P.I."], "THE WALTONS" ended. Then, the "reunion" movies followed....on NBC?

Yes, the three 1980s post series movies jumped to NBC (the music copyright remained with CBS, hence the main title change)...It really is funny how "The Waltons" and "Little House..." seemed to borrow off of each other...mostly LHOTP borrowed from TW, but it did go the other way (I swear that the character of Cora Beth was developed as a result of Mrs. Oleson). Its really amazing that things were so different back then...TW had poor ratings for much of its first season, but CBS didn't just cancel them after two or three episodes...they gave them a chance to grow...something that NEVER seems to happen today...if its not a hit out of the box, its out. It REALLY paid off for them several times over though.

I really am the kind of viewer that thinks a series should have a preconceived end date pretty much from the time it starts, so that the story can have a defined beginning, middle, and end (i.e. "Lost"). I really tend to respect shows that took their fates in their own hands and stopped themselves, and told the network that they were going out...rather than the other way around. I don't really feel that there is ANY series that I have ever watched that really had any business going beyond 7 seasons.

On the other hand, I AM strongly in favor of the idea that they should have one more reunion telefilm to bring a little closure to the story while the entire cast is still living, including Earl Hamner. "A Walton Christmas" movie would definitely bring things full circle don't you think? Could be set at Christmas 1971 with the family gathering to watch "The Homecoming" on TV, and possibly progress into 1972 and focus on the development of a TV series based on the Walton family (should they call it "The Hamners"? LOL).

[Marvo301]

Originally Posted by mattyg1306

I realize this is an old thread, and it will probably be months or years before anyone reads this.

I agree that Season Seven was one of the best. I also agree with those who say the show really jumped the shark with the addition of Rose, Serena, and Jeffrey (I refer to them collectively as the "Cousin Oliver" of "The Waltons" lol), and also the appearance of "faux" John-Boy. There is one interesting FACT that I came across a long time ago that proves that we weren't the only ones who felt this way: At the conclusion of Season Seven, the show's fate was up in the air as most actors' contracts were up, and the ratings weren't what they had been a couple seasons earlier. Earl Hamner and company put together an episode that in itself could serve as a series finale...it was called "Founder's Day", and Hamner's own narration (along with a musical montage performed by "Jason" Jon Walmsley) at the end of that episode actually summed up the meaning of the entire series, and brought things to a very satisfactory end.

IMO, I hate to say it, its too bad the network wasn't quite ready to let go of the show, and renewed it for two more seasons, forcing the writers to develop new storylines, after all plausible and decent storylines had already been exhausted. This happens a lot with other shows it seems...programs are drawn out WAY beyond their "calling", just so the network is greedy and can milk it for ratings money (I'd say the most recent example of this is The WB's "7th Heaven"...that show ran out of decent storylines after season six...but continued for FIVE more years...even being cancelled and having an advertised series finale, then coming back with a cast of completely new actors...RIDICULOUS!). The thing about it is, even had they ended with season seven, the show still would have made syndication, and would have had 150+ episodes, meaning it likely still would have gotten all the air time in reruns that it does today.

Anyway, does anyone else think this would have been a better place to end the series...saving us from faux John Boy etc.? Also, wouldn't it be nice to look back on the series with a nice solid conclusion like "Founder's Day", rather than "The Revel" and the three ridiculous post series movies (I did like the 1990s reunion films...they still could have made the storylines in them plausible even if the show ended two years sooner)?

In a way I agree with you that they should have ended this series at the end of season 7. However I really enjoyed the episodes set during WWII and those would have never happened had the show ended after season 7.

[mattyg1306]

Originally Posted by Marvo301

In a way I agree with you that they should have ended this series at the end of season 7. However I really enjoyed the episodes set during WWII and those would have never happened had the show ended after season 7.

Originally Posted by Sterling Holobyte

I wasn't that big of a fan of The Waltons when I was younger, but I had begun to get into it more, mainly because it is one show that still has some good values and isn't afraid to teach them. But the episode Hallmark Channel showed yesterday made me wonder if this was when they "Jumped The Shark", so to speak. It was the one where Elizabeth kept seeing wierd things happen, like rocks and chairs floating around, and the radio getting all static-y when she came near it. I thought they would show that it was all in her imagination, and they did hint at that during the episode, until I saw the end where everyone saw the stuff happening, and they seemed to explain it more as a manifestation of Elizabeth's "feelings" during puberty. It was like a scene from Poltergeist. It was the first time since I started watching The Waltons, that I saw a really unrealistic episode. My respect for that show went down a couple notches when I saw that one.

I guess I don't "hate" the post season seven episodes...its just that I feel they really were very much below the standard set by previous seasons. IMO, I think maybe they could have summed up the final two seasons in about three movies, and cutting out the "dumb" lol. Please realize, had the show began during WWII and all the original cast etc. was still involved, I probably wouldn't be complaining at all. Its just that it got extremely far-fetched...and even the way WWII was portrayed could have been done better. As it was, it almost seemed like they were using the war as an "excuse" for why certain cast members were missing or not around as much. There were at least a few episodes during this time frame that were decent though.

Also, I had intended to respond to the original poster of this thread with my first reply...the only reason "The Changeling" (aka "Elizabeth's Poltergeist")was produced is that the network wanted a Halloween episode (original air date: 10/26/1978), and this is the writers' response to that. I truly believe that it was made only for fun, and was not really intended to fit into the storyline of the regular series, and should follow along the lines of a "very special episode". "The Nightwalker" also falls into this category, and I also think that "The Ghost Story" (with Luke and the Ouija Board and mysterious train wreck) was written for Halloween but for some reason didn't air until the following February. Writing special holiday themed episodes that don't really match the overall storyline was (and still is) a common practice. I really don't hold anything against the show for these episodes...they didn't make the show "Jump the Shark" if you take the holiday factor into consideration.

[Sterling Holobyte]

Originally Posted by mattyg1306

Also, I had intended to respond to the original poster of this thread with my first reply...the only reason "The Changeling" (aka "Elizabeth's Poltergeist")was produced is that the network wanted a Halloween episode (original air date: 10/26/1978), and this is the writers' response to that. I truly believe that it was made only for fun, and was not really intended to fit into the storyline of the regular series, and should follow along the lines of a "very special episode". "The Nightwalker" also falls into this category, and I also think that "The Ghost Story" (with Luke and the Ouija Board and mysterious train wreck) was written for Halloween but for some reason didn't air until the following February. Writing special holiday themed episodes that don't really match the overall storyline was (and still is) a common practice. I really don't hold anything against the show for these episodes...they didn't make the show "Jump the Shark" if you take the holiday factor into consideration.

Ok, you have a point.
I guess I never really thought of it being a "just for fun" Halloween episode, but that is probably because it is hard to think of all of this weird, unbelievable stuff happening to such a "real" family. If it would have been a known Halloween episode, like on Little House when Albert had his dream about being captured by indians or when Laura thought she saw Mr. Oleson cut off his wife's head and we find out it was just a misunderstanding, it would have been more palatable. But that Walton's episodes was done just like it was a regular day at the Walton household, with no hint that it was not a regular episode.

[mattyg1306]

Originally Posted by Sterling Holobyte

Ok, you have a point.
I guess I never really thought of it being a "just for fun" Halloween episode, but that is probably because it is hard to think of all of this weird, unbelievable stuff happening to such a "real" family. If it would have been a known Halloween episode, like on Little House when Albert had his dream about being captured by indians or when Laura thought she saw Mr. Oleson cut off his wife's head and we find out it was just a misunderstanding, it would have been more palatable. But that Walton's episodes was done just like it was a regular day at the Walton household, with no hint that it was not a regular episode.

Haha, yeah, I do know what you mean...I think maybe it wasn't presented totally in the way it should have been. However, like a Hitchcock film, I think it was "The Waltons"' way of trying to "make us think...". Sometimes strange things do happen in real life that don't make a whole lot of sense, although maybe not to the extreme they did in this episode.

I hate to admit, but I actually think I like this episode better than the "Little House" episodes you mentioned, though. For me, knowing that its a fantasy from the beginning (i.e. we KNEW from the start that Nels really didn't kill his wife) actually made it a little less interesting. We all can have our own opinions on that, though.

Anyway, I just rewatched the DVD of this episode to see what I thought. To me, it seems that the really extroardinary stuff can be passed off as Elizabeth's imagination, as just about anyone her age can "see" things that didn't really happen (or at least not the way we thought they did)...she may have even been asleep since some of it happened near her bedtime. As far as the stuff that the family actually could see: gravity is real (vase breaking), photos can go crooked, brothers can play tricks (the rock), the wind does blow quite a bit in the fall (her hair, the windows), power does go off sometimes, and there are sometimes coincidences (radio goes off when she walks in). The only thing that really can't be explained is how exactly the piano was playing?! As some of this happened just as Elizabeth and friends were about to tell a ghost story, perhaps it was all their imagination getting the best of them.

Anyway, that's all I can come up with...it was a very oddball episode that does stand out like a sore thumb...a watered down Hitchcock piece gone astray! BTW, even though he didn't write this episode, remember that Earl Hamner started his television career writing for "The Twilight Zone", so he definitely has dabbled in the paranormal before! [on a side note, speaking of his early career, he was also an announcer briefly for CBS in New York...you can hear his voice during the CBS tag on the "I Love Lucy" complete season DVDs ("This is the CBS Television Network").]

[rollo's girl]

I just love "The Waltons" and truly apppreciate Hallmark, GMC and INSP giving the series all the airtime they do. That being said, "The Waltons" episodes that are without John Boy and my precious Grandpa have always been second-string to me. Of course there was no way to fix Grandpa's passing (thank God they didn't try to recast that role), but they should have done more to try and keep Richard Thomas (and what a mistake to recast THAT one). Maybe he wouldn't have stayed no matter what the producers tried to do. The episodes I totally skip have Rose and those two kids in them. How ludicrous to have another woman living in the house with John and all those grown children! And it was ludicrous that Olivia was "gone away", as inseparable as she and John were in the early years, no matter what the situation was. I still love the series though.

[TV_on_the_Porch]

Our family stopped watching The Waltons regularly much sooner than most (otherwise I wouldn't have such vivid memories of The Bob Crane Show). As weak as the later seasons were, CBS' decision to produce them was ultimately justified by The Waltons Nielsen rebound that saw it finish first in its time period for the 1980-81 season after a few years of being topped by the first half of the ABC Thursday comedy block.

It's a little surprising then that CBS didn't opt for the 10th season that Earl Hamner pitched to them. It was probably just as well. The show had clearly run its course and went out arguably 'on top'.

[Willbo]

I remember The Walton's ratings rising in the last season. I enjoyed the later seasons. The war episodes were especially good. I thought the final regular series episode was good also. Although I would have liked to have the party scene at the Walton's house.

[McGillicuddy]

Originally Posted by catlover79

^ I agree. When Will Geer passed away and Ellen Corby left due to illness, it just was not the same without Grandma and Grandpa around.

One of the most awesome Waltons episodes of all is when Grandma/Ellen Corby returned for the first time after her stroke, in the spring of '78. It would be the last Will Geer and Ellen Corby would be seen together. Geer past away after this episode was taped, but before it aired, so it was a pretty emotional episode.

As far as the jts moment for The Waltons, in my opinion was when Olivia moved to Arizona because of her health. The show went on after Richard Thomas left, Ellen Corby's illness, and Will Geer's passing, but when Michael Learned decided it was time to go, it was time for the show to end. Even Ralph Waite stopped appearing toward the end, not sure if he actually left the show, or not.

[springb]

Interesting thread. For me, there wasn't any specific episode that made me think the show 'jumped the shark'. But...I DID notice the same problem happen to this show as has happened to others, most noteworthy "Happy Days". In the last couple of years (and on the tv-movies) there is very little attention paid to period hair or costumes.

[Willbo]

I am probably one of the few that enjoyed the post John Boy years better. It gave the other characters a chance to shine. I enjoyed the WWII episodes and thought they were really done well. The episode when Grandma returns after her stroke is one of the best of the series. I agree with the poster about the final episode. I would have liked to see the final scene in the Waltons home. I do remember the date on the invitaion in the final episode had June 3 (or 5) on it. It was the same day that the episode aired in real time. Great series.

[McGillicuddy]

Originally Posted by Marvo301

For me the "jump the shark" moment was when they hired a different actor (who looked nothing like Richard Thomas) to play John Boy. I believe his name was Robert Wightman.

Yeah, I couldn't stand them bringing in fake John-Boy! I agree, that's the "jump-the-shark" point for The Waltons!