Joan Crawford's guest appearance

[Novarro]

Can anyone tell me what the name of the Joan Crawford episode was and what was it storyline? Was it in the last season of "The Lucy Show"? I believe it had a can can musical number in it and that it was one of the times Vivian also returned for a guest appearance.
thanks
Simon

[bb25]

I've never actually seen it, but I've read about it. It was called "Lucy and the Lost Star". The storyline had Viv visiting Lucy, and when their car breaks down they go to the nearest house and it turns out to be Joan Crawford's. Believing she is really down in the dumps they arrange a show for her. I know that's a little vague but that's the basic premise. It aired in March 1968, the last season of TLS....the story of Joan Crawford and Lucy when this episode is filmed has got to be the most repeated story of all in the Lucy mythos. Scandal!

[bweir]

The show begins with Lucy and Viv's car breaking down. Then they go to the nearest house and, like SPLAIN said, it is Joan Crawfords. Now Joan had just moved into the house so she is dressed in dirty clothes cleaning the place up and there is very little furniture. Lucy and Viv arrive and do not immediately recognise Joan. Joan offers them lemonade and goes off to the kitchen to get some. While she is in there Lucy and Viv realise that it is Crawford and they assume that since she was dirty and the house was practically empty that Joan hit the skids. So Viv and Lucy try to get Mooney to give her some money. He doesn't but agrees to give her food, etc (in the disguise of a "Welcome Wagon" type delivery) so it can be deducted from his taxes. Lucy and Viv then decide that they need to revive her career so they organise a show that would include roles played by Joan, Lucy, Viv and Mooney. It is set in a 1920s night club. Lucy and Viv are vetran boozy flapper showgirls and this one particular night in the show, they are adding a new show girl (Joan) who is a milk swilling tea-totling innocent (!!!). THe mobster night club owner Scarface (Mooney) takes a likeing to Joan's innocent and they start dancing the Charleston. Lucy's flapper gets very jealous and there is a shootout. Joan ends up dead. At the end of the episode Joan, Lucy, Viv, and Mooney are back at Joan's house with her agent. He tells them that one person stood out in the crowd and they wanted to offer their contract to one of them:

Lucy: It was me!
Agent: No they said the fat one!
Viv: OOOOH! IT WAS ME!!!!!!!!
Agent: The fat one with the moustache.
Mooney: . . . well if you've got it, you've got it. :D


...and that is the episode in a nut shell.

[Novarro]

Many thanks all for your most detailed descriptions of Joan Crawford's episode of "The Lucy Show". It sounds great and I wish it was more readily available.
Thanks again
Simon

[bb25]

bweir, I think you mean me, unless you're referring to SPLAINS comment in a different thread...

There is actually a short, horrible, tiny, awful video clip of this show on a website, forgot it. It is mostly for the audio since the video is such bad quality and presented on a 5 centimeter screen...

[bweir]

SORRY! Yes, of course I meant you.

[SPLAIN]

THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT!

[PracTz]

I've read accounts of how Lucy treated Crawford when she guested and I have to say this :
It was Lucy's show and if she had the temerity to expect her employees to actually show up to work sober and call them on the carpet when they didn't then hooray for her. Moreover, considering how phony, condescending or downright cruel Crawford was to most everyone around her once she became a star, it's heartening to know there was SOMEone didn't grovel at her feet like she expected!P.S. I read what Vanda Barra said to Crawford- and IMO, it would have been better if she had minded her own biz and let Crawford think about how her actions had meritted Lucy's firing her instead of that 'You're a star and don't you forget it' rot! P.P.S. It's too bad Lucy let the others talk her out of firing Crawford!

[SPLAIN]

Herbie rides again!

[bb25]

I often wonder what Viv's thoughts on the whole Crawford situation were. She was also in the Crawford ep...

[SPLAIN]

When Crawford stopped making slasher films like Straight Jacket and lowered herself to do TV, she was too nervous and the alcohol did not help, you should see her taking over her daughter's role on that soap she used to do, she kept looking at cue cards and was shaking like a leaf, Lucy expected a pro and got a star past her prime.

[NCVARick]

Joan Crawford was actually a very insecure individual, and Lucy often preyed on people like that. Lucy was also insecure, but Joan was even more so. Whenever Lucy encountered someone like that who couldn't stand their ground, she took full advantage and could be merciless, like her cruel and tactless comment to former flapper Joan: "You can't dance!" I love Lucy, but let's be honest her, she those post-Desi years she showed a real mean streak. She mistreated an elderly (and very beloved) Jack Benny on her set, and a half-blind Sammy Davis, Jr. There are so, so many stories like this. It wasn't only Joan.

Incidentally, Joan's "other" daughter was on a recent documentary, telling what a wonderful mother Joan was. She basically said those stories Christina Crawford wrote in "Mommie Dearest" were either greatly exaggerated or made up. Herbert Kenwith concurred, and went on to talk about how Joan went out of her way countless times to do things for Christina, like getting her acting jobs. There's no way she would have wound up with that job on "Secret Storm" had Joan Crawford not been her mother and pulled some strings for her.

Originally posted by PracTz
I've read accounts of how Lucy treated Crawford when she guested and I have to say this :
It was Lucy's show and if she had the temerity to expect her employees to actually show up to work sober and call them on the carpet when they didn't then hooray for her. Moreover, considering how phony, condescending or downright cruel Crawford was to most everyone around her once she became a star, it's heartening to know there was SOMEone didn't grovel at her feet like she expected!P.S. I read what Vanda Barra said to Crawford- and IMO, it would have been better if she had minded her own biz and let Crawford think about how her actions had meritted Lucy's firing her instead of that 'You're a star and don't you forget it' rot! P.P.S. It's too bad Lucy let the others talk her out of firing Crawford!

[PracTz]

Whatever 'insecurities' Joan may have had did NOT give her the 'right' to either abuse children [which, I most sincerely believe she DID do. Though I don't entirely find Christina's account flawless, I DO think it's basically true and there's too much testimony from other contemporaries who witnessed incidents of abuse to discount], OR being intoxicated on the job.
Lucy and Desi were willing to tell Frawley he'd be fired if he ever showed up drunk (despite their close friendship with him and the popularity of his character) and he respected that by NEVER getting drunk while on duty even though he was evidently a MAJOR drinker off-camera! So what did Joan think she was in believing her 'insecurities' and 'stardom' exempted her from the same standards most employers expect from their employees on the job?! I'll grant Lucy was no saint but IMO she was totally right to fire Joan and get mad at her unprofessional behaviour!
P.S. I agree that Joan HAD worked hard to rise above a desperate past to become a star when younger and occasionally did a few nice things for Christina and a few others (which,even Christina herself DID acknowledge in her books) but, overall, I consider her a despicable,cruel person who needed MORE people standing up to her once she became a star!:mad:

P.P.S. I never heard of Vivian telling anyone what she thought of Joan's shenanigans but I'll bet she disliked them even MORE than she had Frawley's! Still, my guess is that at this point, she didn't want to rock the boat re her own guest shot so she stayed out of everyone's way during this mess!

[ARealLucyFan]

Everyone has said Lucy never mistreated Jack Benny. Herbert Kenwith has started all these rumors about Lucy and how horrible she was to everybody, which everyone denies.

[NCVARick]

Cliff Robertson, Anne Blythe, Carol Baker, Steven Spielberg and many others have spoken of how wonderful it was working with Joan Crawford, and have spoken very highly of her as a person, saying she was very generous. The only person I've heard comment negatively about working with Crawford was Bette Davis, who also trashed many other fellow performers (e.g., Faye Dunaway) and had many obvious personal issues herself. Regarding those nameless contemporaries you refer to who claim to have witnessed Joan's abuse, I wonder what their agenda was? And isn't it curious that Joan's older children never, ever experienced any abuse and never, ever witnessed her abusing Christina, even though this abuse was supposedly going on in their own home? As for Herbert Kenwith "starting rumors" about Lucy's behavior, why don't you look at some of the things Lucy's own daughter has said about her, like that she was a control freak, that she was cold and emotionally distant, that she was emotionally immature. And Lucie's said many times that her mother was tactless. After working with Lucille Ball, Richard Burton wrote that he "loathed" her. Jayne Meadows has also indicated that that was a negative experience, as has Peter Marshall. And yes, there have been similar comments attributed to Jack Benny himself. Vivian Vance referred to her as a bitch when they first worked together. And did you ever hear how Lucy behaved on the set of Mary Tyler Moore's series? Like a baby. And as for trying to fire Joan Crawford, don't kid yourself if you think that event was isolated. Lucy fired people right and left. How many directors did she go through on "Here's Lucy"? I lose count. Jerry Paris was one of them. He directed for Garry Marshall for many years through "The Odd Couple" and "Happy Days" but survived only a couple episodes of dealing with Lucille Ball. She fired the great Madelyn Kahn, who never seemed to have any issues with anyone else she ever worked with in her long career, which ended at her death after several years of working with Bill Cosby's on his last series. At one point, Lucille Ball even fired Madelyn Davis and Bob Carroll, Jr., the greatest writers she ever had.

Originally posted by PracTz
Whatever 'insecurities' Joan may have had did NOT give her the 'right' to either abuse children [which, I most sincerely believe she DID do. Though I don't entirely find Christina's account flawless, I DO think it's basically true and there's too much testimony from other contemporaries who witnessed incidents of abuse to discount], OR being intoxicated on the job.
Lucy and Desi were willing to tell Frawley he'd be fired if he ever showed up drunk (despite their close friendship with him and the popularity of his character) and he respected that by NEVER getting drunk while on duty even though he was evidently a MAJOR drinker off-camera! So what did Joan think she was in believing her 'insecurities' and 'stardom' exempted her from the same standards most employers expect from their employees on the job?! I'll grant Lucy was no saint but IMO she was totally right to fire Joan and get mad at her unprofessional behaviour!
P.S. I agree that Joan HAD worked hard to rise above a desperate past to become a star when younger and occasionally did a few nice things for Christina and a few others (which,even Christina herself DID acknowledge in her books) but, overall, I consider her a despicable,cruel person who needed MORE people standing up to her once she became a star!:mad:

P.P.S. I never heard of Vivian telling anyone what she thought of Joan's shenanigans but I'll bet she disliked them even MORE than she had Frawley's! Still, my guess is that at this point, she didn't want to rock the boat re her own guest shot so she stayed out of everyone's way during this mess!

[PracTz]

I don't want to argue this any further but I'm standing by what I said in the beginning-and if one chooses to ignore the accounts re Joan's cruelty of UNanonymous people such as Helen Hayes, James MacArthur, Kirk Douglas, June Allyson, Estelle Winwood, etc., that's your choice but I refuse to discount them!
Yes, I know Lucy was no saint and not always fair but I don't believe she was someone who revelled in sadism and cruelty!

[PracTz]

P.S. Neither Lucie Arnaz or Jack's manager believed Lucy treated her old friend Jack Benny badly. Had she done so, I doubt Jack would have stayed friends with her OR would Jack have gone to Lucy's Celebrity Roast (his last TV appearance)!

[NCVARick]

What EXACTLY did those people say Joan did to Christina? And what EXACTLY did they witness Joan do to her? And why, again, doe's Christina's own sister say she's lying? Why did her sister never see any of the abuse claimed by Christina, given that they lived under the same roof? (Christina was a problem child who, like many problem children, had to be sent away to a private reform school.) And why did Christina wait until her mother died to write that book? Could it be she was afraid her mother could actually DEFEND HERSELF and tell HER side of the story? Heaven forbid Mommie Dearest have an opportunity to defend herself! Or was she just waiting in case her mother left her a nice inheritance, in which case the book would never have happened? The ONLY reason Christina dreamed up that book was because her mother, quite justifiably, left her no inheritance. This was her way of somehow making money off her mother. And quite obviously she made a killing off that book. It wasn't done for charity, you know! By the way, a highly regarded book that came out last year, called Joan Crawford: The Essential Biography, completely debunks Mommie Dearest. Check it out.

Originally posted by PracTz
I don't want to argue this any further but I'm standing by what I said in the beginning-and if one chooses to ignore the accounts re Joan's cruelty of UNanonymous people such as Helen Hayes, James MacArthur, Kirk Douglas, June Allyson, Estelle Winwood, etc., that's your choice but I refuse to discount them!
Yes, I know Lucy was no saint and not always fair but I don't believe she was someone who revelled in sadism and cruelty!

[SPLAIN]

Although i always enjoyed Joan's movies i was shocked by the book and the many other articles i've read over the years by famous people who were witnesses to seing her kids tied up in bed so they wouldn't get up in the middle of the night, they were the boy and the the girl, not the twins, maybe she finally woke up to her behavior by the time she took care of them, who knows? When they do a bio, they can always come up with people on BOTH sides who saw totally different things, but i certainly would not go by whatever Herbie would say. I agree about the Benny thing, they were friends,but Lucy could be hard on a set, maybe that's why Mrs Benny NEVER did her show, Lucy HATED HER and would really have done a number on HER, but Lucy worshipped Jack and his talent as many in Hollywood did, and why would he have worked with her so many times if he didn't enjoy the experience, contrary to his image, he did NOT need the money.

[bweir]

Mary Livingston did a "guest voice" on Here's Lucy.

[PracTz]

Originally posted by bweir
Mary Livingston did a "guest voice" on Here's Lucy.

True. Because Mrs. Benny's stage fright had intensified over the years, her voice was taped at the Benny home then Lucy 'played' her character -lip-synching to her.
Moreover, there was a Jack Benny special in which Lucy played Mary's nurse and literally held her hand so Mrs. Benny could endure being on camera for about a minute as a tribute to Jack!
With very few exceptions, few of Jack's friends and collegues seemed to like Mary but the majority of them evidently did nice things for her so as not to hurt Jack's feelings because they adored Jack! After he died, virtually all of them seemed to have as little as possible to do with her (yes, including Lucy) because they no longer had to worry about hurting Jack!

[SPLAIN]

So aside from selling his beloved house and giving him the maid's room at that condo, what else did she do to get them all against her? He did cheat on her, was that it? The reason she mistreated him, i mean?

[PracTz]

Originally posted by SPLAIN
So aside from selling his beloved house and giving him the maid's room at that condo, what else did she do to get them all against her? He did cheat on her, was that it? The reason she mistreated him, i mean?

I think Lucy and the others disliked Mary because they felt that she was affected, pompous and domineering to Jack. .and they believed she didn't have a fraction of the talent that Jack wanted to believe she did so essentially that is why most of his friends disliked her. If they thought she DID have talent, they likely would have put up with her less pleasant traits better. BTW, of all his friends, Claudette Colbert was one of the few who stayed friends with Mary after Jack's death! I'm not even sure whether her distant cousins (the Marx Brothers- who'd introed them in Vancouver) did so! BTW, she legally changed her name from Sadye Marks Benny to her radio character's name of Mary Livingston in 1948 because 'even my husband only calls me Mary'!

[SPLAIN]

Thank you PracTz, i've always wanted to know and you're the first person to ever give me the answer. Seing as you are an expert in this department, let's try another one. Joan Benny, their daughter, said that she wanted to buy their old house next to Lucy's but they were going to help her with the money, but never did, so she lost it and was very upset at that. When they did a special with Jack's best moments, Lucy had one short clip where she said nothing, you barely saw her for a second, do you think Mary or Joan had any anymosity towards Lucy regarding those Herbie Kenwith stories?

[bb25]

Whoa! This whole child abuse thing has gotten out of hand! This is The Lucy Show board peeps!

All I'll say is that is was LUCY'S show, she had the right to fire and manipulate anyone, in my opinion. She just wanted everything perfect, and didn't want anyone walking all over her, on HER show, do you blame her? As for Lucie Arnaz's negative comments about her mother, I say: get over it! She ran a freaking studio and had her own show! She didn't have time to sit around at home and lavish attention on her kids so I think Ms. Arnaz should just get past that hump and stop being such a crybaby about it, it really ruins Lucy's public image as far as I'm concerned...I mean, I'm sure the Arnaz kids are still sucking up the profits everyday!

[PracTz]

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Thank you PracTz, i've always wanted to know and you're the first person to ever give me the answer. Seing as you are an expert in this department, let's try another one. Joan Benny, their daughter, said that she wanted to buy their old house next to Lucy's but they were going to help her with the money, but never did, so she lost it and was very upset at that. When they did a special with Jack's best moments, Lucy had one short clip where she said nothing, you barely saw her for a second, do you think Mary or Joan had any anymosity towards Lucy regarding those Herbie Kenwith stories?

I doubt Mary had any use for Lucy and, now that you mention it, I don't recall Joan saying much of anything about Lucy in her bio about Jack- apart from just mentioning that she lived next door to them for a time. S
Rather than automatically assume that the lack of Lucy clips in the Jack Benny tribute (the one narrated by Kelsey Grammar, right?)had anything to do with animosity towards her memory on Mary's or Joan's part, it could be simply a matter of wanting to highlight Jack's work as much as possible. Inasmuch as Lucy's star has NEVER been allowed to dim, maybe they wanted to show Jack's talent to a NEW generation without thinking it was solely due to Lucy carrying him! (e.g. Remember when William Holden died- despite his major film star status, virtually the ONLY thing that was mentioned or replayed on CBS News was that 'ILL' Brown Derby Restaurant clip!).

[SPLAIN]

Good point! BUT, lots of other stars were featured on that show, it could be the other theory that i've always had that the estate charges too much for the clips, so they don't get shown, i've recently revised that to mean CBS, not the estate necessarily, it would explain the consistent lack of Lucy on those Lucy connected people getting bios on A and E. Sorry, i forgot about Joan's book, i read it and came to the same conclusion, no Lucy, yet they worked together so often. Jess Oppenheimer sent Lucy to a Jack Benny taping when she was doing My Favorite Husband, so she could learn from another genius. Jack is my all time favorite male comedian by the way. I saw him on stage and in person and asked him about Lucy and he was so incredibly generous with his time. Jack could tell a story about almost nothing for half an hour and make everybody laugh, he was a genius at storytelling and the two of them together were magic. Thanks again for finally solving the mystery of Mary and Lucy. I also always loved that story that when Jack died, all these superstars were at his house, sorta paying tribute.