Eleven Reasons to Give Actors a Break

[Crimson and Clover]

http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=15385

What's up with these talk radio hosts and TV pundits getting all hot and bothered over the various Hollywood celebs who have spoken out against a U.S. invasion of Iraq?


I wonder how many of these Hollywood bashers voted for the thespian-turned-politician Ronald Reagan. Should we not pay attention to the "Great Communicator?"


A friend recently sent me a top 11 list of why blacklisting Hollywood war opponents is ridiculous.


11) Two weeks of basic training before filming "Saving Private Ryan" is more military experience than Condoleeza Rice, Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Dick Cheney (five deferments), Tom Delay and Dennis Hastert combined


10) Donald Rumsfeld went to Iraq while Saddam Hussein used our chemical weapons on Iranian soldiers (and civilians along the border) and secured the additional shipments to the Iraqi dictator. Sean Penn visited Iraq, but has only used chemicals on himself.


9) Martin Sheen has been arrested 70 times in his pursuit of peace and social justice. George W. Bush's three documented arrests: drunk driving, stealing a Christmas wreath and football hooliganism.


8) MSNBC (General Electric and Microsoft) canceled Phil Donahue, its highest-rated show, because it offered alternative views.


7) With all of the TV networks recruiting military consultants, why haven't we seen much of Gulf War #1's triumphant Stormin' Norman Schwarzkopf? Blacklisted?


6) The Pope, a man of some celebrity and moral authority (and an actor in his youth), is against the war.


5) Brit Hume, Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh are celebrities, not elected officials or diplomats (incidentally, all avoided service in Vietnam) who make their livelihood shilling for war. Janeane Garofalo, Matt Damon, et al., risk their livelihoods by opposing it.


4) There is no such thing as apolitical art.


3) "Apocalypse Now" took five years to complete and Martin Sheen saw it all the way through – disease, monsoons and all. George W. Bush skipped the last 17 months of his National Guard service in Texas.


2) Are awards shows asking pro-war celebrities to keep their remarks "neutral"?


1) It's their First Amendment right!

[webuster]

Blacklisting is unfair, Robert Altman (director of MASH) was Blacklisted in the 60's, then went on to direct MASH, a very famous film. Just cos you have views, different than the hollywood hotshot chairmen, doesn't mean they shouldn't work. Also- has Richard Gere had some argument with these people, on brink of blacklist? In all the many films he's in, he never gets an oscar, even Chicago, where John C Reilly's nominated, who wasn't as good. Is the blacklist some non-existant kind of just silent treatment thing, ora real list, sent to everyone?

[Titania]

Originally posted by Crimson_and_Clover

1) It's their First Amendment right!

let us not forget that the only reason we have a "first amendment right" is because of the military and wars of the past

[bandito]

Originally posted by Titania


let us not forget that the only reason we have a "first amendment right" is because of the military and wars of the past Amen

[C Doody]

Originally posted by Titania


let us not forget that the only reason we have a "first amendment right" is because of the military and wars of the past

:clap:

[Kitt]

FIRST AMENDMENT TO THE CONSTITUTION
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The American people are responsible for holding onto their first amendment rights. These days it's popular to call dissenters of the government's policies Un-American and endangering the nation. Dissenters have been told to, in a word or two, shut up. Weve been through this before and have survived it. The following is an excerpt from a summary of an interpretation of The First Amendment given in 1955 before a US Senate Subcommittee on Constitutional Rights. The speaker, Alexander Meiklejohn, was a First Amendment scholar.

[First, our doctrine of political freedom is not a visionary abstraction. It is a belief which is based in long and bitter experience, which is thought out by shrewd intelligence. It is the sober conviction that, in a society pledged to self-government, it is never true that, in the long run, the security of the nation is endangered by the people.

Whatever may be the immediate gains and losses, the dangers to our safety arising from political suppression are always greater than the dangers to that safety arising from political freedom. Suppression is always foolish. Freedom is always wise. That is the faith, the experimental faith, by which we Americans have undertaken to live.

If we, the citizens of today, cannot shake ourselves free from the hysteria which binds us to that faith, there is little hope for peace and security, either at home or abroad.]

http://w3.trib.com/FACT/1st.meikle.html

[Fleet]

A few points...
Reagan was a liberal Democrat (up until '61 or '62) until he realized that this ideology does not work. He then became a conservative Republican. And Gov. of California.
The Hollywood liberals don't know what they are talking about and/or are unqualified. Let's look at the education and carrers of some of those in the Bush administration and the H'wood libs:

President Bush-
Received Bachelors degree from Yale University and an MBA from Harvard Business School. Served as an F-102 pilot for the Texas Air National Guard. Worked in the energy industry 1975-1986. Elected Governor in 1994 with 53.5% of the vote. Became the first Texas Governor to be elected to consecutive four-year terms, in 1998 winning 68.6% of the vote. Won 240 of 254 Texas counties.

V.P Dick Cheney-
Earned a B.A. in 1965 and a M.A. in 1966, both in political science. Two years later, won an American Political Science Association congressional fellowship. Served in the U.S. Senate.

National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice-
Earned Bachelors Degree in Political Science from University of Denver, 1974. Master's degree, University of Notre Dame, 1975; PhD, Graduate School of International Studies, University of Denver, 1981. Awarded Honorary Doctorates from the Morehouse College in 1991, University of Alabama in 1994 and University of Notre Dame in 1995.

Bill O'Reilly-
Graduated from Marist College in Poughkeepsie, N.Y. with a degree in History, taught high school for two years in Miami. Returned to school where he received a Masters in Broadcast Journalism from Boston University. News carrer started after... Scranton (Penns.), Dallas, Denver, Portland (Ore.), Hartford and Boston. In 1980, anchored his own program on WCBS-TV (N.Y.), later became a CBS News correspondent covering the wars in El Salvador and the Falkland Islands. 1986- joined ABC News as a correspondent on World News Tonight. During his three years there, he appeared on the show more than one hundred times, and received two Emmy Awards and two National Headliner Awards for excellence in reporting. In 1995, enrolled in John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard U.N., received Master's degree in Public Administration. After leaving Harvard, hired at the Fox News Channel.

Now, the liberal celeb. "experts"--

Barbra Steisand- completed high school; career, singing & acting.
Cher- dropped out of school in the 9th grade; career, singing & acting.
Martin Sheen- flunked exam to enter University of Dayton; career, acting.
Jessica Lange- dropped out of college mid-freshman year; career, acting.
Alec Baldwin- dropped out of George Washington U after scandal; career, acting.
Julia Roberts- completed high school; career, acting.
Sean Penn- completed high school; career, acting
Susan Sarandon- degree in Drama from Catholic U of American in Wash. D.C.; career, acting
Ed Asner- completed high school; career, acting.
George Clooney- dropped out of University of Kentucky; career, acting.
Michael Moore- dropped out of first year of University of Michigan; career, movie director.
Sarah Jessica Parker- completed high school; career, acting.
Jennifer Anniston- completed high school; career, acting.
Mike Farrell- completed high school; career, acting.
Janeane Garofelo- dropped out of college; career, stand up comedienne.
Larry Hagman- attended Bard college for one year; career, acting.

[Kitt]

Originally posted by Fleet
The Hollywood liberals don't know what they are talking about and/or are unqualified.Fortunately, it doesn't say in the First Amendment that whoever only you say is qualified to speak may speak. The First Amendment allows and encourages us all to take advantage of our free speech rights.

[Fleet]

They wouldn't have it in the first place if wars were not fought over it! Besides, they lost... the war is on. No use to continue protesting because it doesn't matter, anyway. Besides, some of them say things like "Iraq has no WMD." How do they know?

[Kitt]

Originally posted by Fleet
They wouldn't have it in the first place if wars were not fought over it!Speaking of education, you misunderstand the concept of the First Amendment. The First Amendment isn't protected by only wars, by a long way. It's protected by the"eternal vigilance" of the people during peace time as well as war time. The government is what the First Amendment is intended to protect us against. If we wanted our first Amendment rights to stop whenever we have something divisive to say it wouldn't be of any use.

[Titania]

Originally posted by Kitt
The First Amendment isn't protected by only wars, by a long way.

sure, but would you like to be speaking the first amendment in German, or more currently appropriate, in Arabic?

[Moonlight Lady]

Taking advantage of the right to Freedom of Speech is a good thing. However, They are abusing this right, in my opinion.

[webuster]

The education of celebrities or anyone doesn't matter, don't forget, many celebs lives on shoestring budgets before making it big, unlike george w. bush, who's dad was rich, and his relatives. Education doesn't matter, just because you attend college, doesn't mean you have more right to a vote, or to give an oppinion.

[Fred G Cleaver]

your wrong agian an actor would not know nothing about whats going on in the real world look at martin sheen he thinks he is president

[Kitt]

Originally posted by Titania


sure, but would you like to be speaking the first amendment in German, or more currently appropriate, in Arabic? There isn't a chance in Timbucktoo that Iraq could invade and defeat America in war. Whatever the reasons are that we're doing this in Iraq, a fear of being some day ruled by Iraq, and having the Arabic language forced upon us isn't one of them.

[Fleet]

Originally posted by Kitt
Speaking of education, you misunderstand the concept of the First Amendment. The First Amendment isn't protected by only wars, by a long way....
I know all about the First Amendent. It does not give the right (like some "peaceful protesters" ) to loot and block traffic.

[Kitt]

Originally posted by Fleet

I know all about the First Amendent. It does not give the right (like some "peaceful protesters" ) to loot and block traffic. That's like saying, [I know all about football. That does not give my wife the right to be mad at me]. In other words, how does your statement about looters show that you know all about the First Amendment?

I don't condone looting, and I never implied that I did. So why are you venting your beef about looting at me?

[Fleet]

Originally posted by Kitt
That's like saying, [I know all about football. That does not give my wife the right to be mad at me]. In other words, how does your statement about looters show that you know all about the First Amendment?

Completely different. If a wife is mad about her husband watching football, it's not illegal.

[Jimbo]

Originally posted by Kitt
There isn't a chance in Timbucktoo that Iraq could invade and defeat America in war. Whatever the reasons are that we're doing this in Iraq, a fear of being some day ruled by Iraq, and having the Arabic language forced upon us isn't one of them.

Could Iraq invade America? If, by "invasion", you mean large numbers of the Iraqi military successfully landing on our shores to attack this country, then I agree that Iraq does not have the ability to invade the United States. As we saw on Sept. 11th, 2001, however, an invasion can take many forms.

Prior to 9/11, many in this country would have said "there isn't a chance in Timbucktoo that some obscure group called Al Qaeda, operating in a far off place called Afghanistan, could invade America". On that date, using only a handful of men, Osama Bin Laden did launch an invasion of this country. That invasion resulted in the killing of close to 3,000 people, destroyed the World Trade Center, destroyed part of the Pentagon, and inflicted massive pyschological and economic damage on this country.

Saddam Hussein may not have possessed the ability to send thousands of his troops pouring into our country (I love talking about him in the past tense!), but until this week, he could very well have launched an invasion via other means, such as the spreading of chemical or biological agents, detonation of a "dirty bomb", or even a nuclear weapon, in heavily populated areas of this country. Saddam won't get that chance now.

[Kitt]

Terrorism has existed for many years. al Qaeda has attacked America before and might again. My commnents to Titania were about deafeating and overtaking America. Not the same as terrorist attacks. Terrorist attacks, or the possibility of them, on America will not abate with or without the existance of Saddam Hussein.

[Jimbo]

Originally posted by Kitt
Terrorism has existed for many years. al Qaeda has attacked America before and might again. My commnents to Titania were about deafeating and overtaking America. Not the same as terrorist attacks. Terrorist attacks, or the possibility of them, on America will not abate with or without the existance of Saddam Hussein.

Kitt, you may find this surprising, but I happen to agree with you. The point I'm trying to make is that we can longer view ourseves as invulnerable simply because we are separated from our potential attackers by a vast ocean on both coasts. We can refer to Sept. 11th as "terrorism", an "invasion", or any number of other terms. I don't want to get hung up on semantics.

Can we eradicate terrorism? Sadly, the answer is no. There will always be individuals, or small groups, that will use violence to advance their agenda and attack those who hold views different from theirs.

I have stated in the past that getting rid of Saddam will not put an end to terrorism. What it does do, however, is put the world on notice that we intend to be proactive in dealing with regimes who pose a direct threat to the safety and security of the United States, or engage in state-sponsored terrorism.

[Kitt]

Originally posted by Jimbo


Kitt, you may find this surprising, but I happen to agree with you. The point I'm trying to make is that we can longer view ourseves as invulnerable simply because we are separated from our potential attackers by a vast ocean on both coasts. We can refer to Sept. 11th as "terrorism", an "invasion", or any number of other terms. I don't want to get hung up on semantics.

Can we eradicate terrorism? Sadly, the answer is no. There will always be individuals, or small groups, that will use violence to advance their agenda and attack those who hold views different from theirs.

I have stated in the past that getting rid of Saddam will not put an end to terrorism. What it does do, however, is put the world on notice that we intend to be proactive in dealing with regimes who pose a direct threat to the safety and security of the United States, or engage in state-sponsored terrorism. Okay Jimbo. We agree on all you wrote except the methods you spoke of in your final paragraph. We both know that. No complaint here, and I imagine that you feel the same.